Blood Pet only serves to flip Lili, that 1 for 1 isn't advancing your state. Even in a reanimator shell returning it seems lackluster. I prefer Slum Reaperand co. for flipping Lili.

I see that Crypt Creeper flips Lili, but I'd test Withered Wretch in its place. It's superior grave hate, but inferior sac fodder.

Extinguish All Hope is an expert wrath that doesn't give you any advantage. I'd swap it for either Toxic Deluge or Plague Wind\In Garruk's Wake.

I whole heartedly approve of Deadly Tempest. I'll have to pick one up for my lili. Which, has turned into a more reanimator deck.

Hope I helped. I may return and offter more help later.

Thanks for commenting on the deck! I knew you could offer tons of advice :D

The nice thing about Blood Pet, Crypt Creeper, and all the other selfsacrificers is that they give Liliana, Defiant Necromancer a -2, a -1, or even a 0 of "Each opponent sacrifices a creature," when I have Grave Pact, Butcher of Malakir, or Dictate of Erebos out. Even though Slum Reaper can do that at -4 and Merciless Executioner and Fleshbag Marauder can do that at -3 without those extra cards, they can't flip Lili the turn she is played as early as possible, and I think that an extra turn is pretty important.

Do you think I need more graveyard hate? I like how Heap Doll, Crypt Creeper, and Nezumi Graverobber can function as oppressive graveyard hate, but theyre still good cards without having to go against a graveyard-based strategy, which I feel like is Withered Wretch's biggest downside: it becomes a dead card against decks that don't do much from the graveyard.

Extinguish All Hope is a bit of a sad card, but it's one of the few boardwipes below seven mana that isn't more than five tix (which is why I am not playing Toxic Deluge, Damnation, Oblivion Stone, etc.). It's not very efficient, but desperate times calls for desperate measures. Also, are board wipes that ignore me really worth waiting until that high mana cost can be paid? I would figure a reanimator deck could handle getting wiped.

I'll make a test version with the following changes and let you know how it goes:

Blood Pet, Crypt Creeper, and Extinguish All Hope out for Slum Reaper, Withered Wretch, and In Garruk's Wake. I look forward to your feedback!

In both decks, I'm actually taking out Phyrexian Denouncer for Coretapper because I don't like waiting to sacrifice. Sometimes waiting one more turn is the difference between a win and a loss.

I'm trying to figure out if Ophiomancer or No Mercy have a place in the deck. The only cards I think I'm comfortable removing are Shred Memory and Dimir Machinations since they can't get me a board wipe, and I feel like I have too many tutors in the deck. Any opinions anyone?

I cut Ophiomancer, because while its a good card, it doesn't actually do anything for Lili.

No Mercy is cool, but may have the same issue.

I don't know, I just feel like I'm getting hated on in multiplayer games since I am not doing the typical thing of getting big creatures out (to block with). That's what made me feel like I need more pillow fort cards in the deck (and why I'm cutting the tutors that can't get boardwipes). I'm still considering No Mercy and Ophiomancer, but Royal Assassin and Silent Arbiter would be amazing too. Since Ophiomancer and Royal Assassin can both protect Lili and fuel opponents' graveyards for my reanimating, they seem like the best cards for the job currently.

I guess I might be trying to find replacements for Ensnaring Bridge and Maze of Ith, which would be amazing to have in this deck. Unfortunately, theyre 20 tix each, which is way outside my budget...

I also invite Octrate to the discussion for his insight.

will she blow me too?

She will Mutilate you in a Toxic Deluge, does that count?

grave pact might help you.

mrmoo, I've already had Grave Pact in the deck for a while

Note to self:

Out with Underworld Connections, Thran Dynamo, Nezumi Graverobber, and a Swamp for Death of a Thousand Stings, Exile into Darkness, Asylum Visitor, and Drownyard Temple.

Why would you run Death of a Thousand Stings?!

Oh it's simple: to turn Lili's +2 into "Each opponent discards a card."

Skull of Ramos maybe?

sorry for a double post, but would Sanitarium Skeleton help with compensating for Lili's +2?

Skull of Ramos is three mana for an effect I feel is too small... No worries about the double post, I actually am looking forward to seeing if Death of a Thousand Stings and Exile into Darkness work well enough to look into more expensive ways to mitigate her +2 (ones that cost more than ).

Getting the winning loop of Liliana, Heretical Healer  ^Flip's emblem plus Gray Merchant of Asphodel/Kokusho, the Evening Star plus a sac outlet has been happening much too infrequently for my tastes.

Would replacing Vampire Hexmage and Crypt Creeper with Bloodthrone Vampire and Dross Hopper be a poor direction?

I recommend keeping Vampire Hexmage to stop Simic decks and other planeswalkers dead in their tracks (if they are common in your meta, otherwise ignore this message). I agree the combo isn't likely enough and you should see about dropping Crypt Creeper for Bloodthrone Vampire at the least.

Trtl, after considering that someone could just Clone/Reanimate my Vampire Hexmage to Hero's Downfall my commander, it could be more of a liability than an asset. To a lesser extent, Crypt Creeper could prove to be used similarly against my strategy, so I don't think I need a second Heap Doll.

Out:

Vampire Hexmage
Crypt Creeper

In:

Bloodthrone Vampire
Dross Hopper

Your deck requires that a Grave Pact effect be in play for all of your self-saccers to do anything other than flip Lili. Since you can't always guarantee that you'll have one, I would upgrade some of your self-saccers to Fleshbag Marauder and friends, despite the higher loyalty cost for Lili's second ability. It'd only cost 2 or 3 card slots to provide less reliance on having a Pact effect in play. To that end, I would also recommend running Butcher of Malakir for a 3rd copy of the Pact effect. You run a couple creatures that double your mana production, so his high cost shouldn't be too bad. Additionally, I would recommend Grave Betrayal to start getting opponent's sacc'd creatures back under your control.

For another reanimation spell, Fated Return grants indestructible to allow you to board wipe with advantage. I would also find space for Rise of the Dark Realms in order to have another means of grabbing all the dead things in the grave.

You mentioned Maze of Ith and Ensnaring Bridge being expensive, but perhaps Crawlspace will be a cheaper alternative for you to reduce aggro.

For what to take out, you have a small smattering of lifegain cards, which don't contribute a whole lot because there are so few of them: Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Kokusho, the Evening Star, and Sangromancer. I know that your card draw eats a fair amount of life but I feel these lifegain cards are so few that they won't really make a difference. It's a poorly-supported subtheme at best.

Lastly, in the past I've had trouble getting a whole lot of value out of Blood Scrivener and Asylum Visitor - they are just very inconsistent. You've got a ton of other card draw effects that make these less valuable, especially since they are creatures that will die to your board wipes.

Vedalken Orrery might be nice. So you can flash in a creature to sacrifice to Lili to dodge a killspell or wrath effect.

Since you tend to fill your gy quickly, Oversold Cemetery might not be bad. Some with Phyrexian Reclamation. Also, in a pinch Reassembling Skeleton is almost impossible to get rid of and works really well with a sacrifice engine.

Necrologia is one of my favorite draw spells in Black. I don't know why more people don't run it.Hatred is good with your lifelink commander.

Other valuable spells. Mind Twist (if you feel like being mean), Hymn to Tourach (really disrupts a player's early game). Megrim, Liliana's Caress, Head Games (replace hand with lands), Sadistic Sacrament (B's anti-combo tech), Sign in Blood, Despise (helps get creatures out of hands before they're played so you can reanimate them.

Anyway the strategy of B discard + boardwipe seems punishing against aggro and control. Seems versatile. I'll probably make a cutlist in the near future.

I like the deck, but I feel that the cards you use for sacrifice leave a lot to be desired. They don't do a great deal on their own and aren't worth returning to the field. I definitely think you should include Fleshbag Marauder and Merciless Executioner, as they can get far more mileage. Stronghold Assassin also does better than you other creatures with abilities that require a sacrifice. Victimize is a great recursion tool that also feeds sac. Tortured Existence gives you useful discard on the right situation. Ghoulcaller Gisa could also provide another sac outlet and give you a potential alternate wincon. Replace these for any of those x-cost creatures. I get the idea, but if you transform Lilly too early you won't have anything besides a 2/2 to protect her, and they don't have any other use.

I'm not eligible for this round but I thought how sick it would be to pair up Memory Jar with Moonring Mirror

I think you might have one too many boardwipes in there especially with all the tutors you have. However it could just be integral to your gameplan to only have lili on the field and it could depend on your meta. If you find it's too many I would take out either Extinguish All Hope or Crux of Fate.

I must not be getting a major part of the deck because I can't imagine why some of these sacrifice outlets to flip lili would be worth a card. Cards like Shifting Wall and Death Cultist Cabal Trainee and Bile Urchin are dead drops on an already flipped Lili as far as I can tell. Phyrexian Marauder and Endless One and Dross Hopper also seems to just exist to die. Fume Spitter seems like it might have some utility against some good cards like Lotus Cobra but it still feels weak for edh standards. Same with Heap Doll.

I'm not sure what your devotion usually is in this deck, but I can't imagine it would be enough for an effective Gray Merchant of Asphodel.

Some cards I thought of adding: Dark Prophecy. This is obviously good with all your sacrifice creatures.Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder. This guy gives you presence and fodder for your sacrifice engines.Grim Haruspex. You seem to have a lot of nontokens dying in here. This fits with that and gives you some advantage for otherwise sub-bar sacrifice abilities.Harvester of SoulsOgre SlumlordLifeline - you're liable to have your dead creatures you sacrificed to liliana return and since none of them seem to be sorcery speed you could do them every turn.Pawn of UlamogBig Game Hunter - Great with liliana's madness effect and otherwise still good.Vampire Hexmage - Better by far than Dross Hopper. Can kill planeswalkers and hydras while flipping lili at the same time. And you can always tutor for Dark Depths for an alternative win-condition.

Apprentice Necromancer seems like a really good alternative to some of your other cards. It goes well with your reanimator strategy. Soldevi Adnate also serves as mana ramp and a sacrifice engine.

Apprentice Necromancer seems like a really good alternative to some of your other cards. It goes well with your reanimator strategy. Soldevi Adnate also serves as mana ramp and a sacrifice engine.

I'm sure the ultimate goal here is to get Liliana's ultimate off. And I'm sure that is not easy. I also belive you built around that ability. So my question is. Why no Grave Betrayal?