While I agree with most of your meta analysis, I do see significant holes against some of the more prevalent decks in Modern. Specifically "Living End", "Reanimator", "Dredge", and "Affinity". I understand that "POD" was big at the pro tour, but that is only because it was the most seasoned of the young format. What we know is that "pros" chose the easiest path of resistance. But the decks I listed above will soon define the Modern format. When a card like Deathrite Shaman is removed from the format, it leaves a significant vacuum in its wake.
What I suggest is that you test with some of these cards either side or main...
Far / Away : it fits your utility mold in spells. Although it is less effective if Snapcasted.
Spell Pierce
: an absolute tempo beast in the early rounds against fast decks like "Affinity", which rely on early combo aggression.
Shattering Spree , or a variant: you are weak to affinity.
In final, your list is sound, but modern is diverse and the meta shifts from week to week, making it very hard to pin down. Make sure your core objective remains the same, with your sideboard providing the flexibility of the meta. And good luck.
March 3, 2014 10:40 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #3
Once again you guys/gals have GREAT upgrades to the deck. I have been thinking I need to add another rise/fall to the deck. I will give the additional remand and two less mana leaks a try for sure (as nothing is worse than a "dead" Mana Leak and drawing a card is such a huge advantage). Great suggestions.
ProfessorDucky- I wish more people would give constructive help like your do...especially in terms of formatting. I don't think everyone understands formatting importance on the overall feel of deck.'s appeal. You are absolutely right, and I will make the changes you suggested (finding a great picture that sums up the idea of the deck).
Stemii- Great suggestions!. This deck (as all our decks are) is still a work in progess and is always changing. My current sideboard with Rakdos Charm s and Hurkyl's Recall really hoses affinity post board. As for living end, re animator, and dredge do you have any suggestions on sideboard or mainboard additions that may help? I'd be greatly appreciative of any ideas you provide. I have some ideas I think are great; but two minds are better than one! Fortunately, those decks are not run very often in our local meta and that is most likely why they were overlooked, but they are important decks in the modern meta and I'd rather be prepared as they grow in popularity. Thanks so much for your help on this!
Your other suggestions are spot on. Far /Away fits perfectly into a toolbox utility deck like this one. I will definitely be testing it. Shattering Spree will most likely be added as well if affinity becomes a problem, but the charms and recall's have worked so far. Spell Pierce is a true all-star right now and will most likely take the place of the Mana Leak if Remand s don't.
Really this deck will always be a "shuffle" of 80+ grixis cards as the meta shifts...I will continue to put other ideas in the "maybeboard" to show that with the "rise and fall" of popular decks (pun intended :) that the deck will shift to best play against them. Thanks again to everyone who has helped and also for the +1's! Hopefully together we can get the best 60 for the current meta and make a new tier-one deck!
March 3, 2014 6:28 p.m.
Always want to help :). And good choice for the featured card.
March 3, 2014 8:02 p.m.
I'm not familiar with competitive Modern right now, but if the games vs Affinity last longer than 5 turns, I think Vandalblast might be a better choice than Shattering Spree . It depends on what you use it for most often. If you only smash 2-5 artifacts, the Spree is better, if you usually smash 1, or 5+ then Vandalblast is better
March 3, 2014 11:16 p.m.
parasitian says... #6
I really like this decklist so here's a +1. I run affinity and I playtested your deck (without sideboard) and beat you 2-1 with some major luck in game 2 aiding to your one win. Personally I would cut 2 Shadow of Doubt
, although it is a great card I just feel like it can be a dead one a lot of the time. Most control lists that do run it, use it as a 2-of but your deck is more aggro-control than control anyway so I feel like you just need more tempo cards.
Arkh suggested a card I think you should pay attention to, Electrolyze . In my eyes, adding two Electrolyze will complete a lot of what this deck wants. An additional way to burn out players if necessary and a way to gain lots of tempo through the killing of creatures while drawing a card. In addition, Electrolyze is great against affinity, when you are on the play and you get to kill a Vault Skirge and a Steel Overseer before my third turn while drawing a card, I basically lose most of my chances to seal the win.
March 4, 2014 2:47 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #7
Thanks parasitian!
I completey agree with you about Shadow of a Doubt....it is really strong against both RWU control and POD (which are heavy in the meta); but out of every card, Shadow of Doubt
far and away is a "dead card" far more often than any other. This needs moved into the sideboard I believe. I had concerns with the card in the past, and your suggestion just makes me that much more confident in the decision to remove it from the mainboard.
I appreciate the help! Affinity is one of the toughest matches this deck runs up against. Rakdos Charm and Hurkyl's Recall help quite a bit. I've playtested heavily against Affinity (as it seems to be the worst match-up so it requires more time)...and nearly every time I play a 3-game "set", I lose game one and win games 2-3). Obviously you hate to have a deck you always lose game one to (unless they get poor luck of course I get lucky); but that's why the sideboard has a good amount of hate for it. It may need more though. I can't imagine I, my brother, or anyone we play with is as proficient with Affinity as you; so there may be games where Affinity would have won that I ended up winning simply do to the player. Its always helpful to have someone great with a deck playtest against you (as you get a true and honest feel for how it stacks up). I most certainly will be playtesting Electrolyze in the mainboard immediately.
I can't thank you enough for both testing the deck, but also providing the feedback. That takes time; and I really do appreciate it. I will definately be looking into Electrolyze
and am pretty sure that Shadow of Doubt
is moving to the sideboard. Thanks so much as well for your +1!
March 4, 2014 3:31 a.m.
If you move to Electrolyze instead of Shadow of Doubt that is just another reason to play Sygg instead of Bob. :)
That being said, I agree about 3 Shadow of Doubt being overkill and probably a sideboard card for this deck. If Electrolyze feels too slow, which I don't think will be the case, consider Izzet Charm .
And one more point to consider. 4 Remand should pretty much be mandatory when you are running so much Discard.
March 4, 2014 10:13 a.m.
Due to the similarities in our decks I just played a series of 5 games against your deck with my Rakdos Pillar deck and won all 5 games with my deck. Granted... I didn't do any sideboarding. So my deck had a distinct advantage due to its access to the sideboard through Glittering Wish. Your deck would certainly fair better after some sideboarding.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rakdos-pillar/
What seemed poor in your deck:
Shadow of Doubt
was just awful. However being that my deck runs no fetch and no search that is to be expected.
Delver of Secrets
Flip
Genuinely not impressed by this guy.
Liliana of the Veil
I know people aren't going to agree with me on this one... but I just don't think Liliana of the Veil is on the the power level that people think she is.
What seemed strong against your deck:
Sprouting Thrinax
was a definite problem if it hit play. In fact, your deck has very limited answers for a card like Sprouting Thrinax. But considering you will likely never see a Sprouting Thrinax at a tournament, that is probably fine.
Riot Spikes
is really not a great card... but somehow it makes itself relevant whenever I test it in modern. Testing against your deck reinforced my belief that it has play in modern. Not a problem, nor should it be played around. I just find it funny.
Electrolyze
is strong against your deck. Kills every creature in your deck including Creeping Tar Pit
Abrupt Decay
is strong against your deck. Though, again... not something to play around.
March 4, 2014 6:09 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #10
Thanks Arkh....I appreciate the suggestions and your testing the deck! The sideboard is pretty important; but I understand for time saving reasons not siding any cards in or out.
I agree that Shadow of Doubt just isn't strong enough in the main board. It's a great card (and may end up in the sideboard); but it just isn't useful enough in enough matches to stay.
Yeah....Abrupt Decay is hard to play around :) Crazy good.
I've been pretty impressed with Liliana of the Veil ; however, and she's pretty darn powerful. I may have to keep her.
I agree with the Remand idea as well. The current version I'm testing has four of them in it.
I can't really plan too much around Sprouting Thrinax and/or Riot Spikes as they are not a huge part of our meta (or the Modern Meta in general); but that being said, there are always rogue builds that come up in any meta and the deck needs to be versatile enough to play against several rogue builds. Your deck is REALLY cool as well.
I've gone ahead and posted the list I'm currently testing (and it incorporates many of your suggestions). I'll keep you updated on how it goes! Thanks again for all your help.
March 4, 2014 7:12 p.m.
fadetoblack1183 says... #11
I feel that you are stretching your mana base with all those double cost cards (and triple with Cryptic Command ). Is there a reason for the Swamps being Snow? Either way I would drop a Swamp and both the Mountain and Island for a Dragonskull Summit , a Blood Crypt and a Watery Grave . I feel Blood Moon is going to make your life miserable anyways if it resolves and I think this will give you a little more from your mana base to deal with all the double and triple costs. Would obviously have to be playtested to see if it helps. Or maybe you could bump up to 24 lands?
March 4, 2014 9:38 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo. I have run around and around thinking and brainstorming as to your matchup against the graveyard based decks as we discussed earlier. It would seem that Relic of Progenitus is what most non white based control decks are leaning towards. It seems to be a two of in most sideboards. It may be the answer you are looking for.
I don't know if it was in the original list I saw, but Delver of Secrets Flip should be replaced. One card I forecast taking hold in the format is Restoration Angel .
It was an absolute beast in standard with Snapcaster Mage . I would say take out the 4 Delvers and replace with 2x Spell Pierce and 2x Restoration Angel . Then gel essentially gives you extra Clique and Snapcaster Procs. Very Sound IMHO.
March 4, 2014 10:05 p.m.
Kaitoghost says... #13
Keep the basics. Path to Exile is a heavily played card. Bob is a Path magnet. Might as well be able to take advantage of Path's drawback.
Restoration Angel is good, but would require splashing white.
March 4, 2014 10:57 p.m.
Theredhood99 says... #15
And I thought my grixis deck ( I like your deck, mind if I borrow it? ) was pretty kick ass, but this blows mine out of the water. This is super awesome.
March 5, 2014 8:56 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #16
Fascinating. A Grixis deck that may be half decent in the current Modern meta. I congratulate you. I may have to save the money to build this if only to give it a whirl and for my love of Grixis. What decks do you need testing against still?
March 7, 2014 12:36 a.m.
Hey i tested your modern deck against mine and your won the set 2-1 but it was close (2 control decks so they were long and grueling) but over all they seemed pretty even the main thing you had over my deck was all the discard you had with fall, i like this deck alot its amazing after i have my Esper deck perfected i was going to make a grixis and youve given me alot to think about with this deck Esper Draw-Go Control <<<< this is my deck if anyone would like to test it i would much appreciate it since it has no comments so far
March 7, 2014 12:48 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #18
Stemii....no problem at all...Restoration Angel
is absolutely amazing. I wish I could add it!
I agree that Delver of Secrets Flip can be pretty lackluster. It's one of those "is either amazing or useless" cards depending on (a) when you draw it and (b)when it flips. I have been trying out a couple different builds without Delver and haven't found one I absolutely love yet; but I feel like I'm getting closer to replacing it.
Theredhood99....I actually quite like your Grixis deck! We Grixis brothers must stick together (my twin brother is a "green mage" and likes ramp and combo decks....so he just doesn't understand :) +1 from me! Thank you for your kind words about my deck as well.
CanadianSamurai....thank you! We honestly do try to build with the Meta in mind moreso than anything...as we want the decks to hold up and actually be playable in the current environment. I just recently began testing against:
Hexproof Bogles - This was a fairy easy match-up given Liliana of the Veil ). Most games they bank on having one creature with 3+ enchantments on it; and we have enough "sacrifice" effects that even hexproof doesn't matter. The hand destruction pretty much takes care of the rest. This was not a match-up you have to dedicate much if any board space to.
Merfolk - This can be a little tougher. Fast decks in general (those that lay down their hand in one or two turns) become difficult because our hand destruction become less powerful. At that point you have to start "bouncing" things with Rise and using spells to remove them from the hand after you've put them there :) I'm trying to find the best balance of removal in the sideboard to best side against decks like this (Merfolk, Affinity, Zoo, etc.) so that they are extremely favorable match-ups post-side board. The Lightning Bolt 's and Terminate 's however, go a very long way in such match-ups; and game one is definitely winnable.
Storm - Storm is becoming so popular that we began testing against it more lately with all of our decks. I was actually surprised to see that it is not that tough of a match-up. Because they have to wait on average 2-3 turns before they "go off"; you have time to take cards out of their hand; forcing them to wait longer; giving you more time to remove more cards....basically they just never "get there". It's grindy...but once you have a creature down you can begin doing damage quickly enough that they never really combo off.
These are the most recent decks. We've tested against Pod, Jund, Tron, Twin (both Splinter Twin and Tarmo-Twin), Affinity,UWR Control, Zoo, and Green Devotion as well). We have yet to test heavily against Infect or Mill (and I honestly beleive that infect is going to be on it's way back to the meta soon...and have seen an interesting mill deck floating around; so these need to be considered). I hope this answers your question, and I would LOVE to hear decks you feel we should be testing against as well. Thank you as well for the compliment!
Gostgun - I'm actually suprised I beat your Esper deck. Esper Draw-Go Control is a GREAT build. I can imagine that the duel was extremely grueling!! It would give me a headache :) I can't tell you how much Rise /Fall has impressed me. It's the reason I started building the deck, and I just think it is a Modern-viable card that isn't played enough. I appreciate the comments as well. I was able to look at your deck...it's really good. +1 of course. If anyone wants to see a similarly interesting Esper build (which is another combination not currently huge in Modern) please look at Esper Draw-Go Control on Gostgun's page.
Sorry it took a second for me to respond to everyone. I still am testing a few different ideas; however the deck is much closer to the "stable point" as we call it. This couldn't have been done (and it wouldn't be half the deck it is) without everyone's help. I greatly appreciate it!
March 7, 2014 2:02 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #19
I was mostly curious how this deck stacks up against Spinter Twin and Pod. I run UWR Control and I can see the advantages and disadvantages that match up would have.
March 7, 2014 8 a.m.
iamacasual says... #20
If you're stuck on Delver, maybe make him a 2 of and add 2 more Vendilion Clique.
March 7, 2014 9:51 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #21
Well I've put together SOMETHING resembling this. However, I lack a third Liliana of the Veil as well as a Vendilion Clique . I'm toying with 2x Think Twice or 3x Electrolyze for the time being.
March 7, 2014 6:25 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #22
I'm trying out a new build without Delver of Secrets Flip . In their place I added Thoughtseize . I only added three however. Because of the mana base and the early cards that cost life (both Thoughtseize and Dark Confidant ) I felt I needed a little more lifelink in the main board (beyond my one Batterskull ). For this reason, I added two Vampire Nighthawk . This both can gain me a little life and takes care of pesky creatures (due to the deathtouch)...the opponent has to decide whether they want to attack or not.
This require the removal of the main board Vendilion Clique ; however I moved it over to the sideboard. I am thinking of adding Engineered Explosives to the board now as well (considering I don't run any 1-drops)....this all, however, will take testing. Let met know what you think! I am just trying this now; so we'll see how it goes!
March 7, 2014 10:58 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #23
I am currently trying switching out the Thoughtseize 's with Inquisition of Kozilek ...basically I am just weighing the differences between missing a 4+ drop and the life-loss Thoughtseize causes.
We take a lot of damage and lose a lot of life due to our Lands, and Dark Confidant
...in matches where this 2-4 life is important (zoo, affinity, etc.); they are not going to be playing a ton of 4+ drops anyways; and in the matches where a 4+ drop will be pivotal; hopefully I will have the cards to either remove it from their hand, counter it, and/or destroy it (especially if I know it is coming). This is at least the train of thought I have for the switch.
As always, I will of course test this...but do let me know what you think and/or if there are any cards/matchups where this could be a big deal (i.e. can't take out Splinter Twin ; but can remove Pestermite , etc.) Thanks again for everyone's help!
March 8, 2014 3:40 p.m.
you know that you can't cast rise AND fall at once... It doesn't have fuse.
March 8, 2014 10:01 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #25
Yessir....that is an important distinction to make scorpix...we tried to put enough "dual use" cards in that you can "combo" cards so that one side is more useful than the other (I.e. If you have hand removal you can choose to bounce something, etc.). At least that was the goal :).
It would be awesome if it did though!!! The old Ranica splits would be so crazy good. Wish they had thought of that way back when :). Thanks for the input scorpix! I'll go through the description and clear up any confusion on this that I find.
-Bean- says... #1
Well done. Yet another well thought-out deck from you guys. Terrific work. A few formatting tips: I think you can tag Rise/Fall instead of just Rise in your decklist, just for visual appeal. And the other thing is, Shadow of Doubt 's art, while beautiful, isn't too impressive as the featured card. May I suggest changing it to the promo Remand or Blightning ? Oh, and +1 from me!
March 3, 2014 3:37 a.m.