" I have always wanted Geist of Saint Traft in an aggro/control or tempo style build, but was always told that Geist only really fits a "pure" UWR control shell."
Technically, wrong. A version of this exact deck was one of the decks-to-beat about a year ago. It was titled: Boremandos and included a creature suite of 4x Geist of Saint Traft , 4x Delver of Secrets Flip and 4x Snapcaster Mage . The goal was to utilize the best removal package RW has to offer and pair it with 4x Remand . You put down a threat, and protect it with Remands, doubled with Snapcaster Mage until you pull through with the necessary damage.
At the time, the two cards that also made this deck so successful was 1) Isochron Scepter to have late game power with recurring Lightning Bolt etc, and 2) Sideboarding into a Gifts Ungiven package which reanimated Iona, Shield of Emeria and caught your opponent off-guard.
If you want to understand this deck better, start digging into the past first, then figure out how you want to deal with what the metagame has to offer. Good luck!
July 25, 2014 9:23 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #3
tchau204- Thanks for your input. While I understand it's quite a bit, If you read all of the posts above, I feel I have a pretty good understanding of this deck as I have been testing it for months in different iterations.
As for Boremandos, I had seen it before (Shehar Shenhar played a version of it in Pro Tour Return to Ravnica I believe). While Jund was the deck to beat at the time, you are right that it was a known entity (it was the 10th most popular deck in 2012). In 2012 according to mtg top 8 it made up 4% of the meta and in 2013 it made up less 1% of the meta. In 2014, it's basically non-existent (has morphed into different versions).
I don't know if a deck can be "a version" of an "exact" deck;, but I do understand what you were saying. The creature suite of Delver, Snapcaster, Geist along with Paths, Bolts, and Remands (although in slightly different amounts) does promote a similar play style to an extent. While a number of the cards in the deck are the same (much like many decks in modern), this deck plays out differently (mostly due to the differing Meta's each is/was in). 2012 was a Jund-Heavy environment (which made UWR play slighly more "midrange" than my deck).
The Bormandos deck actually plays more similar to the UWR Midrange Geist decks that you currently see in the meta. As you stated above, the deck plays a threat and protects it. They typically run four of's of Remand
, Mana Leak
s (or some assortment of these), Lightning Bolt
s and Lightning Helix
s. The deck would start with early pressure from one of the one drops and tried to hold on for victory. Also any deck that can run a Gifts Ungiven
package and Isochron Scepter
are typically more oriented towards the late(r) game. During that time the deck to beat was Jund and Bormandos began to evolve into the midrange UWR Geist lists you see today which in turn have now morphed into the UWR Kikki lists.
To be entirely honest; all of these decks live off the power of similar cards (Geist, Snapcaster, Remand, Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, etc.). What makes them different from one another are the other cards built around these powerhouses. I'm not the first or last person to put Delver, Snapcaster, and Geist together :) We're not huge on "deck ownership" or "intellectual credit". I just feel this 75 is different enough in play-style and is effective enough in the current meta to post for others to play as well.
The deck you see above is more dedicated to card advantage and pressure rather than a singular threat. You are exactly right that one of the strategies of the deck is to land a threat and protect it, but it's not the only plan. This deck runs more as a tempo/aggro deck than a midrange deck. Hence, the lack of 4 of Path to Exile
and no Mana Leak
, We aren't necessarily trying to keep the opponent off of everything, we just want to be the one pressuring the opponent.
You are absolutely right that the past can be an important factor to consider; however our builds are made for the most part with the current meta game in mind. Having said this, I greatly appreciate your looking at the deck and commenting with an extremely interesting idea I hadn't even discussed (the history of UWR builds in Modern). Thank you as well for the well wishes! Please do let me know of any ideas/potential improvements you may have (as you seem to know your stuff :)
July 25, 2014 11:50 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #4
For everyone following and helping with the deck, I have removed the Leyline of Sanctity
s from the sideboard and added Hibernation
, Mirran Crusader
, and Celestial Purge
because I have seen very little burn and 8 rack in my meta, but B/G rock lists and Jund lists continue to grow in popularity. Thanks for stopping by and checking out the deck!
July 26, 2014 12:01 a.m.
Chargingbadgerrrrrrrr says... #6
really Preordain is on the banlist? that explains why I got yelled at by people at my store last night
July 26, 2014 10:50 a.m.
beleren272 AEther Vial doesn't do much for this deck since the list features too few creatures.
Chargingbadgerrrrrrrr yeah, Preordain and Ponder were providing too much consistency to combo decks, like Storm, so they decided to ban both.
July 26, 2014 12:29 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #8
beleren272- I agree with tchau204 on aether vial in this deck in particular. If there were more creatures it would work very well, but not in this particular build. I do agree with you that AEther Vial is severely underplayed in the modern format.
Chargingbadgerrrrrrrr- That post was hilarious. I really wish Preordain
was legal, but tchau204 is right again, it just gave combo decks too much deck manipulation.
Thanks to everyone for keeping the conversation going and making the deck better!
July 26, 2014 1:44 p.m.
Chargingbadgerrrrrrrr says... #9
f*ck this im taking my ponders and preordains into legacy! lol
July 26, 2014 1:48 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #10
Chargingbadgerrrrrrrr- HaHa. It's hard to let go of Preordain
,
After talking to tchau204 and looking at his RUG delver list (click on his name to see his list), I am going to give a 1 of Deprive a try in the deck so see how it goes. I have had several games with a Spell Pierce stuck in hand, and it might be nice to have one hard counter for really tough things like Batterskull and Birthing Pod . Thanks tchau204 for convincing me to test this one and thanks to everyone for the +1's!
July 26, 2014 2:52 p.m.
+1 for the new wedge name.
I do question the sword though in the sb, I figure it is for BGx matchups. In my experience though, if you aim to be a tempo deck they generally ruin your tempo. It seems steep to have to spend 5 mana to cast it and equip when you are trying to quickly bash and burn your opponents face while countering their plays.
Have you taken this to a tourney yet?
July 26, 2014 11:18 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo No problem man, I hope it works out well for you! Let me know how it goes!
July 27, 2014 1:39 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #13
NateJH- Thanks for the upvote +1. I thought I might as well start to get used to my new shard- JESKAI. I think you right about about the Sword of Feast and Famine . It really hasn't made a ton of difference in the matchup. I may replace it with an additional Path to Exile . Are there any cards you recommend?
I have only played this in local FNM's, no major tourneys. I have won on several occasions at local stores, but I don't travel for major tournaments. Work and life get in the way :) I also test almost nightly with my brother and the deck has done extremely well against the current meta. With the current somewhat slow meta, this deck is great. When there is another major modern tourney in the Indianapolis area, I will be definitely be playing in it with this deck. I really want to get the deck out there, so I may end up getting a MTGO account and playing some dailies to try to go (4-0) and get the list onto some of the major websites.
I'm always open to any recommendations to make the deck better. Thanks for looking!
tchau204- Thanks again. I will keep you posted. Please keep me up to date with your RUG list as well.
July 27, 2014 1:59 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #15
A member of my local playgroup mentioned that Illusory Angel was in a 4-0 UR Delver decklist from MTGO. I am going to test it in the slot with Spellskite . Which would you prefer? The power of Illusory Angel or protection of Spellskite ?
July 27, 2014 2:25 a.m.
Spellskite provides resilience whereas Illusory Angel speeds up your clock. However, the latter feels underwhelming in your deck, given that it's already full of extremely efficient and powerful spells. Go ahead and test it, but I would personally play Restoration Angel before the illusion.
July 27, 2014 2:50 a.m.
TEGHabibird says... #17
What did it cost you to do in foil? Maybe edit it so everything appears in foil to show the cost
July 27, 2014 9:28 a.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #18
tchau204- That's the first thing I said. I thought Restoration Angel
is just a better version of Illusory Angel
in this build. I will test it because I test everything just in case, but I assume it won't make the cut.
TEGHabibird- It cost a pretty penny. I'm not sure what I actually spent on the deck, but I assume it was approximately $1,200- $1,600 out of pocket somewhat recently. I have had several of the lands, the delvers, the geists, and the helix's for awhile. I also pulled the foil Sword of Fire and Ice from a modern master pack.
I went back and forth about the lightning bolts and grim lavamancers for ever. I love the judge foil Lightning Bolt s and the torment Grim Lavamancer s, but they cost considerably more than the M11 bolts, and M12 lavamancers. I decided that if I was going to foil out the deck I would just get the copies I really wanted. It took slightly longer than it would have if I just bought the cheaper versions, but it was worth it in my opinion.
I definitely wasn't an investment that I will be making my money back on, but I love showing it off and playing with the deck. I really don't like how the foils show up on the decklists so I have left them as is, but I will make a copy of the deck and foil it out to see if I like it. If so, I will update it on this one.
Thanks for looking and for any votes! Have a great day!
July 27, 2014 5:15 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #20
I am currently testing a more control version of the deck with Deprive in place of Electrolyze and a Cryptic Command in for Boros Charm . I am also testing an aggro version with Ajani Vengeant or Thundermaw Hellkite in place of Spellskite . My play group has a testing session planned for Friday. I will also be testing on and off throughout the week. Thanks for checking out the deck!
July 27, 2014 8:25 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #21
With the recent increase in Lingering Souls
at GP Boston, I am also trying this list with Electrolyze
and Thundermaw Hellkite
in place of Gitaxian Probe
.
July 28, 2014 4:20 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #22
We are getting very close to the final 75 I think. I am currently testing the top end threats. I put in Ral Zarek
because, as an izzet player, I just love the card (although he probably isn't 100% right). He has been doing very well so far. I am also currently testing Thundermaw Hellkite
, Batterskull
, Stormbreath Dragon
, Restoration Angel
, and Ral Zarek
of course.
In the end, the top in threats will most likely change as the meta changes. If creatures-centric decks and aggro decks are popular I will stick with Batterskull . If token decks and Lingering Souls keeps gaining popularity I will go with Thundermaw Hellkite or Stormbreath Dragon . If combo oriented decks are the highest percentage I will go with Restoration Angel . That is a positive to the deck. I am putting the other top enders in the maybe board section so show that they can be a revolving door of beaters.
July 31, 2014 11:29 p.m.
Instead of Pillar of Flame , why not Magma Spray ? And have you ever thought about throwing in Magma Jet ? They only deal two, but the scry two is pretty helpful.
August 5, 2014 2:11 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #24
boon1313- Thanks for the help. I run Pillar of Flame because it is better against Kitchen Finks , Voice of Resurgence , and Murderous Redcap because it exiles them. Instant speed is a much better option otherwise. I haven't tried Magma Jet yet. Scry two is amazing in any delver list, but it seems a little under powered for the meta right now. I never say that any card is a bad idea until I test it so I will definitely give it a try. Thanks again for looking and for helping to make the deck better!
Update- I have been testing this deck non-stop and really think it is in a great place. Chandra, Pyromaster
has been amazing so I added another copy. Any game that goes long, she just dominates. The last three spots in the deck are the spots in question. I currently run three Gitaxian Probe
s. I keep going back and forth with removing them and adding them back in to the deck. The information gained by seeing your opponents hand is invaluable. In addition, probes are great food for a Grim Lavamancer
and for an Ambush Vipored Snapcaster Mage
.
However, if they weren't in the deck I could run a Pillar of Flame , a fourth Path to Exile , a fourth Snapcaster Mage , or Thundermaw Hellkite .
Let me know which option you prefer!
August 9, 2014 12:58 a.m.
Another card that might be worth some play testing is Browbeat . It either takes a good chunk of the opponents life or you draw three cards... Either way it suits your needs.
beleren272 says... #1
Ok, I will try this deck. Thanks again CurdBrosBrewingCo!!
July 22, 2014 11:55 a.m.