Craterhoof Behemoth wins games.

Murkfiend Liege for buffs. not much else to say though, very solid.

Nice deck. I have had a TON of luck with Erratic Portal and Crystal Shard. Multi applications with them.

Hey gobucks, thanks for the suggestions. I think that while I really like both of those effects, when choosing between those two and Cloudstone Curio, I'd rather have the Curio, since it is more beneficial to me to be able to repeat the effect multiple times in a turn to my own benefit.

I agree with the Curio. I'd consider either Primal Command, Green Sun's Zenith, Survival of the Fittest and/or Tooth and Nail (though this would be my last drop). While I know those are good cards, I think having 4 PLUS your general is a bit overkill on the fetch. Don't get me wrong those are all GREAT cards and EDH staples, but you could have more ways to abuse and re-abuse ETB effects that you already have. Not to mention the countless times I have sharded/portaled my own creatures in response to them being targeted or my opponents creatures should they ever tap out (additionally so with the Muse and Prophet)

I have had luck with them and I think they are sorely underrated. If you really don't like them, don't add them. My feelings won't be hurt. :)

On a different note: Try Ixidron. With Curio (and other effects) its a great way to 'board wipe' as you can flip your cards back over....

I have a Momir deck as well. It's my favorite deck by FAR to play. I like to look at other builds and I think you also did a great job.

Primal Command is less for tutoring, and more for recursion. It's an easy way to get my grave back into my library if I need to recur my threats. It just has the added bonus of also doing other nice things, like removal and tutoring.

The utility of the other three more than make up for the redundancy. They are rare enough that they're not drawn too often, but when they are, they are very useful. Tooth and Nail and Green Sun's both put the creature onto the battlefield, and Survival... well, it's good enough to be banned in Legacy. I could definitely consider cutting one of these (The first to go would likely be Tooth and Nail or Green Sun's) if there was anything particularly good that would replace it. Luckily, we have the UG Commander deck coming out with the enemy-colored commanders. I daresay that'll be of great use to me.

Very similar to my deck.

Not read the entire change log but wonder if you've considered cutting Survival of the fittest for Fauna Shaman? Shaman is easily tutored.

Wirewood Channelers and Elvish Archdruid also are effective, I'd probably cut Azusa and maybe Somberwald Sage for those two.

I also run Kaho in my deck.

@Fairfax Thanks for commenting! To respond to a few things:

Fauna Shaman is too narrow and slow by comparison to Survival. You have to wait a turn to activate it, and then you can only do it once at a time. Survival can't be tutored for, but its ability to be used multiple times consecutively is very important I've found.

Channeler and Archdruid would require me to run an elven manadork package in the deck, which I currently avoid. Alone they don't do nearly enough. With extensive testing, I've also found that CMC 4 mana dorks are far too slow for me. If I were to run one, it would likely be Karametra's Acolyte.

What does Kaho do for you? Seems slow.

Ahh well I'm running thousand year elixir so don't have to worry about summoning sickness, either that or I make sure I can protect her for a turn. I guess I run her for two reasons 1) I like the card flavour 2) I used to run mind bend so I could change Momir's ability to cast a green search + draw. Also, being a creature she was the perfect way to tutor for it and any other instants I cared for. Finally, being able to cast any of them for colourless mana was always a help.

I figured your reasoning for not running Fauna Shaman would be as you described, each method has it's pro's and Con's I guess, which brings me into my next point.

I don't run a Traditional Mana dork package at all myself but I do have other elves in the deck and often one of my three opponents has elves on the table. Wirewood taps for all of them, had him tap for 20 in one game haha! Both of them are usually tapping for 4 or 5 which is plenty enough. I see you have 5 or 6 in your deck.... Oh I also run Priest of Titania.

Finally my meta is often made up of slow drawn out games lots of Countering, Stax decks and so on. It's often not good to stick your head over the parapet first or you get dog piled.

This is just beautiful...

So resilient and just awesome, +1 from me!

A couple questions though, have you considered Blue Sun's Zenith as a win con when you have infinite mana? Even without infinite mana, you can still draw a fair few cards with all your ramp. Also, have you considered Green Sun's Zenith to tutor green/simic creatures?

K00lDudE1,

First of all, thank you! I appreciate that you've come to like my deck! To answer your questions though, I choose not to rune BSZ (Blue Sun's) because it usually ends up being a win-more card. On most turns, I'm busy using up all of the mana available to me, casting creatures and other cards that help me win faster (such as Earthcraft, Birthing Pod, etc). This makes it impossible for me to hold up UUUX to draw cards in hopes of being able to do something else at a later turn. The only situation I would find BSZ useful is if I have a Seedborn Muse out with no Teferi or lands that help me cast creatures at instant speed. Even then, I would usually only be able to cast it for X=2-4, not drawing me nearly enough cards to command a supreme card advantage over others. In short, the card either doesn't do enough, or does too much (win-more).

As for GSZ (Green Sun's) I keep a spare copy because I realize that it's a very good card. My issue, and why I took it out in favor of Chord of Calling, is threefold:

1. The card cannot tutor at instant speed.

2. The card cannot use creatures to help pay for the cost (Convoke is great).

3. The card can only search for green creatures, and my win-con is exclusively mono-U.

So while it's a good card, I don't find it quite good enough for the deck as it stands. Though it may come back into the deck at some point later on.

Thanks again, and let me know if you have any other questions!

Why is Earthcraft here? I feel like im missing something..

GildedGatherer Earthcraft is one of the strongest engines in the deck. It acts like a second Gaea's Cradle, except also lets me tap for blue. This deck specializes in swarming the board in a lot of low mana cost, high value creatures. Being able to use them as another resource to tap for mana greatly accelerates my game plan. And more than once I've been in situations where my lands are tapped out, but I've still got 2 creatures up for the Counterspell I have in hand. People don't mentally always realize that Earthcraft is on the field and I can hold up counter magic with untapped creatures. Doubly powerful with Seedborn Muse. I highly recommend running this card in any green deck that plays with a lot of creatures.

Hey there, fellow Momo player! Your list is really inspiring; I never thought of using Duskwatch Recruiter  ^Flip and Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. I had a few questions about some of your card choices, wondering how they're working for you.

Firstly, how has Nissa, Vital Force been treating you? Do you favor her more for her ult or for her recursion? Do you recommend her?

Timetwister is a card I've yet to obtain, do you think Time Spiral would be an appropriate substitute? Is a twister effect necessary?

And lastly, what are your thoughts on Beast Within, Noxious Revival, and Mystical Tutor/Worldly Tutor?

Thanks for your time and insight. I really like your list, it's really intuitive.

Octrate Thank you for your comment! I really appreciate your interest in the deck :D

To answer your questions in order:

Nissa, Vital Force has been played in one game so far (not counting fishbowling my deck). In that one performance I was pretty satisfied with her and she quickly ran away with the game after ulting. It helped that I had a Crucible and a fetchland, but even so, running a full suite of fetches means I could draw +2 cards per turn, not even using an Oracle or Azusa. I like that I can -3 her late game to cast a Nature's Spiral when I need to, and she can even provide situational, somewhat risky ramp (I ended up animating a Gaea's Cradle to tap for more mana to do things the turn I cast her). All in all she's pretty versatile, and so far I'm pleased with her. But if there's a "must have" card printed, she would be one of the first cards to go I think.

Timetwister and Time Spiral were cards that I was skeptical about in the past, but looking back I'm very glad I got a Twister for the deck. They are very versatile cards, and work in numerous situations:

1. You've got a bad hand/opponents have good hands
2. You overextended/out of resources and need to refill
3. Your graveyard is full of your answers and you need them back in the deck
4. You want to turn off your reanimator opponent

Failing a Twister, I would still test with Time Spiral. Pros, it untaps your lands so it's "free." Cons, it exiles itself and costs an initial 6 mana. So it's more situational. I'd give it a shot if I were you.

And for your final suggestions:

1. Beast Within is a decent card that I've considered running in the past. A lot of people point to it as Green's go-to unconditional removal, and I've been told in the past that it's not a good idea to skip running it. Personally, I think it would replace Krosan Grip if I put it in, but there are so many situations where Split Second is so crucial to have, that I prefer that card over Beast Within. So it's a good card and you wouldn't be wrong to run it, but I don't see much utility for it in my particular deck. I do however run it in my other Green decks.

2. I prefer creatures in my deck to non-creatures, since I can tutor for them in multiple ways. To that end I run E-wit over other similar effects. Noxious Revival I think serves the niche situation where you want to flip an opponent's card in the yard into their library as they start shuffling it. In Vig, Revival is not as good as Regrowth because your deck shuffles itself constantly; whether from fetchlands or creatures, you're shuffling more than you're playing basically. It's a decent card, but I wouldn't recommend it in a Momir Vig deck.

3. Mystical/Worldly Tutor: Mystical Tutor I don't run because there are only very narrow situations where I want to tutor for counterspells. And if I'm tutoring for a counter, people will know I'm gonna start to try and win the game soon. Mystical Tutor I find works best when your win-con is an instant or sorcery. In this deck it's creatures. Worldly Tutor I group in the same category as Green Sun's Zenith: Good, but not good enough. The creature tutors I run in this deck are either my commander, or put the creatures onto the field. You can find a longer explanation for why I don't run GSZ in another comment on this page. Chord of Calling/Birthing Pod/Eldritch Evolution all have significant competitive advantages to them. And again, the issue of "constant shuffling" makes Worldly Tutor less usful.

I hope my comments helped, please let me know if you have any other questions! Thanks again for liking my deck! :D

If you're going to play Earthcraft maybe consider putting in Squirrel Nest so you have another way to combo off. It's a 2 card combo and you've already got half of it so it's probably worth cutting something.

mhsquidgy18 Thanks for the comment! I don't run Squirrel Nest because it is not a good enough card on its own. I am also unable to tutor for enchantments in this deck. As such, I can only run the very cutting-edge enchantments. Please let me know if you have any other questions or suggestions!

Hello! I've been playing Momir Vig for the past few years and had a few questions regarding your deck as, at first glance, it feels much faster than my current version:

A. By what turn do you normally win on - AKA how fast is your mana acceleration?

-- Why I'm asking: the deck I run has a few more elves for ramp (and Collective Voyage which is pretty much a Win-Con in the deck). It also has Dream Halls and Selvala's Stampede to cheat out Omniscience.

B. How many people do you normally play against?

C. What is/was your experience with Lighthouse Chronologist like?

-- I will normally run Momir Vig into Rashmi. See a turn pass over everyone then drop Seedborn Muse, free-casting Fathom Mage who then searches up Teferi, passing turn with 2 extra draws, then dropping Teferi on the opponent's upkeep to draw a 3rd card.

My version does run more Seedborn Muse effects (Awakening, Vedalken Orrery, Leyline of Anticipation and Arboria - the later was found randomly and is stupidly funny).

D. While you run Glen Elendra Archmage, have you tried adding in Master Biomancer? This creates a near-constant protection against non-creature spells.

Hi Pastlebox, thanks for the comment! I'd be happy to answer any of your questions.

A. The turn I usually win on depends on a number of factors. Have I found a way to accelerate my game plan? If so, how? Did I get lucky and draw Cradle and Nykthos, or get my Crop Rotation? Did I draw Skyshroud Claim/Harrow, or Crucible + Azusa/Oracle? My deck wins by making lands untap, and it's important that my lands produce a minimum of 7 mana before I can go infinite and win. So how fast I get to that point is what matters the most. In a fast game, I find I can win usually around turn 4, sometimes turn 3. In a longer game, where a lot of removal has been directed at me, I'll have to get lucky with the cards I draw, and I'll win by hitting 7 lands the hard way, and having the Palinchron + Phantasmal Image I need. Usually, I find myself ready to win Turn 4, and winning turn 4.5-5. The deck isn't the fastest combo deck, but it's extraordinarily resilient, and has won multiple times after losing the board repeatedly.

B. We play in groups of 4. Sometimes the occasional Fifth will join us, but we try to stick to 4, as any more make the games go very long.

C. I used to run Lighthouse Chronologist in the deck. The problem with his ability is that for him to be useful, you need to sink 9 mana into him (7 Us and 1U for casting cost). That alone would take basically all of Turns 3-5 (assuming you can even tap all your lands for U, which is a high bar), and I'm busy winning the game then. And the moment that you spend a turn sinking mana into him, and someone removes him, all your effort becomes for naught. Basically, he's a high risk, high reward card, but the risk is much higher than the reward. He ends up becoming a win-more card. He's a fun card when you can proliferate his counters, but this isn't the right deck for him.

This is my personal preference, but I think Azami, Lady of Scrolls is much better than Fathom Mage. Or rather than tutor for Teferi in the end of your cycle, get Azami. That way you can tap Momir, Fathom, and Azami each turn to draw 3 cards a turn (untapping them each turn with Seedborn). That way, you can draw into a green creature to cast to get Teferi, and then get him to play.

Fathom Mage doesn't work for me because 82% of the creatures I run (27/33) have base power <3, and so she would not trigger often enough to make her useful. I would draw one, maybe two, rarely three cards, before she never does anything for me again. If she were two mana I'd run her, but at 4 I cannot justify such a high cost for so little return.

D. Finally, Master Biomancer doesn't do enough for me on his own to justify keeping him. I run zero +1/+1 counter things (except for Genesis Hydra) and no way to interact with them. I also never attack, and so having big creatures becomes nearly useless for me. The interaction between him and Glen Elendra is cute, but I cannot justify running an otherwise unnecessary 4-drop in the deck just so that my Glen Elendra can stick around for longer. Games don't usually take long enough for me to need more than 2 counters from her (plus all the others I have).

I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any other questions!

Hey man! I was following your post on cedh, i'm Clips4lyfe over there. Really digging your list! I used to run vig back in 2012ish, but my meta was more casual back then and i ripped the deck apart after comboing out several times in a row with little interaction lol. I'm currently gaming rafiq in cedh, but im tempted to try vig again.

Just curious but how are the following working out for you? These are all cards I've tried in rafiq and got cut or never tested them because i thought they'd be too slow/hard to use. Traverse the Ulvenwald, Cryptic Command, Voidslime(although i remember reading somewhere that you mostly use it because you have the beautiful full art foil, shame about Disallow being printed as strictly better! =/), and Nissa, Vital Force.

On a different note, i know you said that you don't like mana dorks because of their lack of synergy with Palinchron, but i'd highly recommend them, at least a couple (along with Dryad Arbor for that GSZ for 0). Although you can get hit hard by Toxic Deluge, imo its still worth it because you are a whole turn faster. Leaving counter magic up helps, i assume you already do that when you throw down vig? I personally run Swan Song and Delay to help counter deluge. Ive even considered Spell Pierce at a point. But if you are playing against tutor heavy combo decks like ad naus storm, know that you are slowing them down if they have to waste a tutor and a turn to sweep your 1-2 mana dorks.

Sorry for the long post, and way to rock a "tier 2" commander on cedh, it's always encouraging seeing that as a fellow T2 general guy! Keep it up man!

rockleemyhero

Idk man, Might Guy is my favorite bushy-browed ninja.

Anyway, it's high time I responded to your questions!

Cryptic and Voidslime have both been useful enough to justify in the deck. I understand they're slower counters, but they have been useful often enough to counter important triggered abilities (saved myself from a Sheoldred trigger making me lose my Con Sphinx last week!) to bouncing value permanents while countering spells. I wouldn't recommend them for every deck (nor would I play Cryptic in any deck with more than 2 colors) but they work here just fine. And the color restriction on Voidslime is rarely ever important enough to actually make a difference between it and Disallow, which is why I won't be upgrading. ...Also full art foil.

Traverse has been sometimes fantastic, other times not so. Getting it early on means I basically have to either not use it, or treat it as a basic land. But late game, if my GY has been filled enough, I can get my important lands (Cradle/Nykthos/Refuge) or valuable creatures very easily. I haven't drawn it enough to make full use of it, so it will require some more testing. But at the same time, I'm a little hesitant at cutting CMC 1 things for higher CMC things, so I will likely look for a viable replacement at CMC 1 or 2 first before cutting Traverse (if I get to that point).

Nissa, Vital Force has been an extremely valuable card for me. The beauty of playing one of the only two dedicated combo decks in the meta is that EDH games are never a race to "see who combos and wins first." So obviously while winning sooner is better, when I acquire 5 mana I don't have to immediately go for my Seedborn/Momir Vig cast. If the situation calls for it, I can cast Nissa and relatively easily ult her the next turn. Having an emblem with "Landfall: Draw a card" is insanely stupidly nuts. Quickly runs away with the game, especially when I have Crucible/Oracle/Azami on the field. Running the full suite of fetches doesn't hurt either. Even apart from her ult, her Nature's Spiral effect (-3 ability) is also very good at getting back key pieces I need in crucial times. So overall I would say that she's a very good walker. In slower metas, I'd highly recommend her. In faster ones, she might be a little too bulky, but for me she works just great.

As I explained in a post above, I don't run GSZ, as I'm not a fan of the sorcery and green only restrictions. Same reasoning for Natural Order. I personally am not a fan of Dryad Arbor because 1. I hate being set back a land drop when a wrath or some other creature destruction effect occurs and 2. I dislike my lands ETBing "tapped" which Arbor effectively does. I explain my reasoning in a post above.

Yeah so for my local meta, this is definitely considered a "T1 deck." There are no ad naus decks, no storm decks, no direct combo. As I think I mentioned on Reddit, the only two dedicated combo decks in my meta that I can think of are this one and an Alesha BW Reanimator deck. Everything else is pretty low-key. The lack of such fierce competition gives me more flexibility in some ways to run bulkier, useful cards (Nissa for example).

Let me know if you have any other questions!

I'm currently in the processOf building my own momir deck and I'm happy to see we have a lot of cards in common. I haven't posted it yet but I will comment with the link to it when I do. This build is pretty impressive. After reading the other comments and checking out your updates I only have a couple suggestions. Maybe Pemmin's Aura to produce infinite mana only usable for creatures with Shaman of Forgotten Ways. Call of the Wild could also see some decent action in a momir deck. I also wanted to ask what your thoughts are on Yisan, the Wanderer Bard.

EDIT: I see now that you had previously removed yisan. And I overlooked that Pemmin's Aura also combos for infinite mana that can only be spent on creatures with Somberwald Sage.

Hey Magicmana,

Thanks for commenting! I'm glad to see you are also inspired to build a Momir deck =D. I'm trying to write a primer to help anyone who is interested. As for Pemmin's Aura, do keep in mind that you need to use a U to untap it. Shaman and Somberwald can't pay for Pemmin's Aura with the mana they produce, since it can only be used to cast creatures. So while the thought it nice, I'm afraid it doesn't actually produce infinite mana!

And yeah, Yisan is a great standalone card, but he is a build-around. I tried him, and he's just not useful enough in my 99. However, I would seriously reconsider running him now that I've put Training Grounds in. Kinda bummed I got rid of my foil just recently! Haha.

Please let me know if you have any other questions! Thanks again for stopping by!

Hey dude! So I've been toying with my own momir vig list recently, and its been a ton of fun and quite a challenge. Curious, but have you looked into Paradox Engine? Vig has gotten no attention since the printing of that card and it seems very abusable here. The obvious problem however is tutoring it =/. However, ive noticed i have the same issue with Aluren, yet its easily justified itself as here to stay