Muldrotha's Madhouse ⫷Primer⫸
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 125 | 76 COMMENTS | 19411 VIEWS | IN 48 FOLDERS
kirkhammett778 says... #2
I would also suggest cutting from your list the following cards, and these are just my opinion. I can definitely see some common themes so I tried to pick cards that didnt necessarily further those themes.
April 15, 2018 6:42 p.m.
Hey there!
Came to make some suggestions for cuts from your list. Here are some cards and the subsequent reasons for my recommendation of removal:
Aura Thief : Enchantments are far from the most common permanent played in most decks. As fun as this ability could be with repeated recursion, you might just end up getting enchantments that are "world effects" anyway, such as Possibility Storm. Maybe you might be able to take someone's Impact Tremors this way, but you're better of just using Seal of Primordium on it.
Erebos, God of the Dead : He's indestructible so you won't be bringing him back with Muldrotha very often, even if his abilities are pretty nifty. Milling yourself might serve better than Erebos' pay life and mana for card draw, here.
Ramunap Excavator : I see a lot of people putting this in their Muldrotha lists at first, but Muldrotha herself already does the same exact ability as this creature. It'll just end up being a dead draw for you since you can play lands from your graveyard already with your commander out.
Song of the Dryads : Not exactly sure what this is doing for you here. If you've got a plan for it then keep it in but I wasn't sure of the purpose.
Skullclamp : You're not generating a lot of 1/1 tokens, so you can't quite abuse as much as you could in say a Locust God deck. Could be taken out to cut down on your card amount.
Anywho, those are just some recommendations from me for now. Really like the look of your list so far, and keep me updated with what you cut it down to! Really appreciate the recommendations for my Muldrotha list, they've definitely helped!
Good luck!
April 15, 2018 8:08 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #4
Hey, ty both for checking out my list. I can get behind most of those recommendations. The only cards I'm hesitant to cut would be Twilight Prophet because of the lifegain combined with card draw. I'm also partial to Song of the Dryads/Imprisoned in the Moon as a way to shut off decks that're reliant on their commander. This is more of a meta call but being able to recur those cards seems good.
Well, that's 5 of 19 cut lol... 14 to go.
April 15, 2018 9:08 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #5
Ok, so oddly enough, this leaves me with 100 cards that I actually own. I'm going to cut the 14 cards I don't own and run this with what I have with the plan of weeding out underperformers.
Listing the 14 cuts here sorta for my records lol. Altar of Dementia, Bear Umbra, Courser of Kruphix, Defense of the Heart, Dig Through Time, Entomb, Golgari Grave-Troll, Grave Titan, Necromancy, River Kelpie, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, Secrets of the Dead, and Villainous Wealth.
April 15, 2018 9:40 p.m.
elgosu1337 says... #6
I don't think you should just cut the cards you don't own, because some of those are really strong, especially Grave-Troll, Sidisi, Sheoldred, Defense of the Heart, and Secrets of the Dead. Bear Umbra could reasonably take the spot of Sword of Feast and Famine since it protects, and you could get value out of recasting the Umbra.
Garruk doesn't synergize with what your deck is doing. I would also cut Kokusho and Wurmcoil since their impact is not as high for their CMC.
April 16, 2018 12:28 a.m.
Last_Laugh says... #7
I completely agree with you that the majority of the cards I 'cut' need to be in here and they will make it in eventually. However, by playing the deck with what I own, it allows me to weed out underperformers and replace them with the 'cut' cards.
I need finishers and I don't really want to go the lands matter theme the first poster suggested. I consider Avenger just because he's good either way but no Gitrog, Titania, etc. Koko and Wurmcoil are just here for that reason and Koko is an alt win-con.
Garruk is just here as a reusable Soul's Majesty which may or may not be worth it here.
April 16, 2018 1:03 a.m.
Last_Laugh says... #8
Bastaba - "I also like your version of the deck, though i think you should cut down on instants/sorceries, since they won't get you as much value in a deck like this, as a permanent would."
I've whittled down my instants/sorceries already and am down to 16. Most of these I can't fathom getting rid of but what would you suggest cutting? Fact or Fiction is the only one I could see going but it does quite a bit for the deck.
April 16, 2018 12:16 p.m.
I would personally take out:
Beast Within -> Nevermaker (Thrashing Brontodon or Executioner's Capsule) or something similar depending on what kind of removal you want
Crop Rotation -> Font of Fertility, Wayfarer's Bauble or similar
Possibly take out Cyclonic Rift, even though it is amazing, it is only one use, while a permanent would give you more uses (if not exiled). You already have a lot of removal, but i don't know your meta, and your need for removal.
Mystical Tutor -> Defense of the Heart - creature tutor is better than spell tutor in this deck IMO and this is reusable with Muldrotha.
Heroic Intervention - I would replace it, but if you have a lot of mass removal in your meta, you could keep it. Though it shouldn't matter too much, since you can cast your creatures from the graveyard, only Muldrotha needs to be saved, so you could use something like Darksteel Plate, but I don't know.
Reanimate and Victimize - I would replace these with Necromancy or some other permanent reanimation (Phyrexian Delver?).
Most of these permanents (if not all) are worse than what they replace, but importantly, they can be recast from the grave and work multiple times. This is what I'm going for in my deck (Muldrotha’s Recyclables) and I think it (is going to) work(s) quite well.
Another thing i just thought of: you really only have two-three reusable sacrifice engine, but a lot of creatures that want to be sacrificed (those with ETB effects) i would either add more sacrifice engines, or remove some ETBs for some more cards like Caustic Caterpillar and Glen Elendra Archmage.
(also Fleshbag Marauder is an evil critter to recast each turn)
April 16, 2018 2:26 p.m. Edited.
Last_Laugh says... #10
Ty again Bastaba. I can get behind parts of that.
Crop Rotation stays, it's job is to look up Gaea's Cradle, Command Beacon, or one of the other utility lands I run, not to ramp. I'm honestly still undecided how I want to handle ramping here, i.e. dorks or rocks. I'm sorta trying a best of both worlds approach.
Cyclonic Rift also stays, if I were going to get rid of a boardwipe it'd be Damnation.
Mystical Tutor would also stay, my instants/sorceries are all impactful and by running this it allows me to drop extra boardwipes etc. because this handles redudancy. If a tutor can go, it's probably Worldly Tutor.
Beast Within can go (for now at least), it's versatile but it's just 1 use as you said.
Reanimate and Victimize aren't set in stone, I have Necromancy on my list of cards I cut due to not owning a copy. I'm sure it'll replace at least 1 of these when I actually pick one up.
As far as sac outlets go, I'm trying to keep those spaces open and just run plenty of permanents that can sac themselves. I run Grixis Marchesa and already do the sac for value plan there so I wanted to go a bit different here.
I honestly might switch this deck to more of a stax/hatebears/tax approach. As the deck stands right now, it shares a crapton of cards with both Animar and Marchesa and unless I sleeve all 3 up in matching sleeves, I don't see this working.
April 16, 2018 4:48 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #11
Ok, I redid the decklist. Testing this thing with holes in it wasnt giving a lot of cards a fair chance. However I'm back in the boat of too many cards... I need help with 7 cuts but I'm a lot happier with the deck as a whole.
April 16, 2018 11:49 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #12
I'm sort of resorting to what I did before but this time it's the 3 most expensive cards I don't own that I'm temporarily cutting. I fully plan on adding these 3 cards back over time, they're too good not to... Greater Good, Life from the Loam, and Treachery. That still leaves me 3 cuts though... opinions?
April 17, 2018 10:36 a.m.
Last_Laugh says... #15
Got things down to 100 cards again. I'd dropped Mikaeus but after looking through my list I realized Venser, Shaper Savant was my only human. Venser out, Mike in (no I won't run Triskelion).
April 17, 2018 8:45 p.m.
You should look into The Gitrog Monster Ramunap Excavator and Hermit Druid for some more land graveyard shenanigans and maybe Ashnod's Altar on your sideboard as a possible replacement of Altar of Dementia in case you want more mana than mill.
April 18, 2018 9:36 a.m.
Sorry to double post, but while I'm at it I should also suggest Siren Stormtamer as a budget Glen Elendra Archmage
April 18, 2018 9:48 a.m.
Last_Laugh says... #18
Ty for the suggestions Rich.
I considered more of a lands matter list but I have a buddy who runs Gitrog. Excavator is on my watchlist, I want to see if reusing my fetches etc early is needed, as my commander already provides this utility later. I purposely left this area alone in case he upgrades to Muldrotha.
I also considered Stormtamer but boardwipes are more of a concern in my meta than targeted removal. I'll consider him as I get more playtesting in and can identify underperformers and weaknesses.
As far as sac outlets go I'm starting with self mill options for now but I'm open minded and have probably 6 backups ranging from Ashnod's Altar to Sadistic Hypnotist to Phyrexian Altar.
Sorry to basically shoot all these suggestions down, they weren't bad cards, it's just not the direction I'm going. Keep any suggestions you got coming though, they're appreciated.
April 18, 2018 10:08 a.m.
If self mill's the goal then you should run Laboratory Maniac and maybe Ad Nauseam or Necropotence
April 18, 2018 11:02 a.m.
So after having a good look at your list I assume you want to avoid infinite combos, but you still need some finishers? I would suggest Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord + Lord of Extinction as a way to beat opponents down fast. I definitely wouldn't recommend Ad Nauseam with an av cmc of 3, and I don't love the exile part of Necropotence. How has Earthcraft been performing for you? I thought you might be a bit light on basics for it? Elephant Grass isn't great in my meta, but maybe it is for you. Also Avenger of Zendikar seems a bit lacking without Craterhoof Behemoth
April 18, 2018 6:12 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #21
@ RigidRich - I'm trying to avoid these balls to the wall plays. I'd get away with it once or twice then never again.
@ LandG0- I have 0 time actually playing this deck yet. I'll definitely consider a Lord of Extinction type finisher here. Earthcraft I run in Animar and my basic land count is the same there and it's very consistent with all 9 fetches. Avenger I want to give a chance due to Crucible of Worlds kinda being built into my commander but it very well might get cut for something with more immediate impact.
April 18, 2018 7:32 p.m.
elgosu1337 says... #22
It looks like you might be lacking in ramp, even if you do have quite a few early plays. Signets are pretty good since you can recur them.
I think you might not get enough value out of the Courser. Azusa, Lost but Seeking might be helpful to recur your fetches once Muldrotha is down.
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant is a really strong enabler and token maker.
Have you considered Triskelion as a wincon with Mikaeus?
Other than that it's looking pretty good!
April 19, 2018 11:55 a.m.
Last_Laugh says... #23
Ok, so I got in my first actual game today and holy crap does this guy generate some value. Got Bojuka Bogged early which got rid of Steve and Lotus Petal the turn before Muldrotha came down and it still barely slowed me down. Pernicious Deed (and Mystic Remora which dug for Deed) was the all-star of the game as it allowed me to clear a scary token swarm with ease.
I do however need to make a cut. My LGS still had Intuition for $25 so I picked up a copy and had them reprice the rest. I'd rather be lucky than good!
April 19, 2018 7:39 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #24
Ok, so I'm not a combo list and I feel that's where Ancestral Knowledge would shine. So there's my cut, Intuition in.
April 19, 2018 9:48 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #25
Got a few more games in today and went 1-2. 2 games I lost were both due to creatures (sorta). 1st loss was to a Rite of Replication copying Frost Titan that kept 6/7 of my lands tapped down and 2nd loss was to a very early Sheoldred, Whispering One in an Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder deck followed by Phyrexian Altar and Sadistic Hypnotist to seal the game.
kirkhammett778 says... #1
I would suggest the new tutor Final Parting because its basically jarads orders but for a card so you can throw some artifacts and enchantments in the yard. Ill keep looking and see if I can think of others or maybe some suggestions for what you could cut
April 15, 2018 6:34 p.m.