Sach_squatch says... #10
Plus the deck is revolving around you drawing that enchantment card. You need a contingency plan. Other wise it won't work 100% of the time.
March 8, 2014 12:52 a.m.
Sach_squatch says... #11
I'm well aware of what it does.
But you shouldn't just rely on that one card and if you are going to do so add in Demonic Tutor, and Vampiric Tutor just incase you get a hand with out a Heartless Summoning in it.
March 8, 2014 12:54 a.m.
Please read what the cards Shred Memory and Muddle the Mixture do.
I'm essentially running 8 Heartless Summoning s.
I've tested the deck before, it works.
March 8, 2014 12:54 a.m.
Sach_squatch says... #13
The draw backs to both of those are that it will set you back 1 turn from the win but it will garuntee you the win a turn later, (problems permitting.)
March 8, 2014 12:55 a.m.
Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are both not legal in Modern.
If you're going to troll please leave.
March 8, 2014 12:55 a.m.
Sach_squatch says... #15
Not 8 Hearless Summonings your running 4 and 4 cards to get one of the 4 that you want.
March 8, 2014 12:57 a.m.
Sach_squatch says... #16
It would be interesting however to try and see you work green in here for Jarad's Orders.
March 8, 2014 12:59 a.m.
I said essentially.
Honestly you're not saying anything constructive at all.
The deck works. Exactly how I want it.
It doesn't win turn 3 every game, no deck does, that's why Magic is a competitive game. It has the potential to win turn 3 though. The problems you are saying with the deck are just flat out false.
March 8, 2014 12:59 a.m.
Working green in would not be difficult at all considering I could just switch out some Swamps for Overgrown Tombs and the Scalding Tarns for Misty Rainforests (either one works at this point currently).
March 8, 2014 1:01 a.m.
Ah yeah, I was thinking that in my head but didn't type it out.
That would probably be the most optimal Fetchland, especially monetary-wise.
March 8, 2014 1:04 a.m.
In this deck, Gifts Ungiven would be better than Jarad's Orders
Using Gifts Ungiven to search for Myr Retriever , Heartless Summoning , Muddle the Mixture and Shred Memory guarantees that you'll gain access to the Myr Retriever and either Heartless Summoning or a way to tutor it. If your opponent chooses poorly, you can additionally gain access to a second Myr Retriever through tutoring. Jarad's Orders gives you no way to get Heartless Summoning .
You can also use Gifts Ungiven
to gain access to a win-con regardless of your opponent's decision by searching for Falkenrath Noble
, Laboratory Maniac
, Vedalken Archmage
and Havengul Lich
, although in the worst case it will take a full turn longer to get out your win-con than by using Jarad's Orders
.
The only advantage Jarad's Orders offers over Gifts Ungiven is that you can use it to search for two Myr Retriever , while Gifts Ungiven is only guaranteed to get you one (although you can change this by adding another 2 cmc transmute spell)
Also 2 colors is easier than 3 :P
I would also question whether you should run either of them. Using a 4 cmc fetch card in a deck that wants to win on turn 3 seems a little strange, especially since the variability of those cards doesn't necessarily guarantee a win on the next turn.
March 8, 2014 3:58 a.m.
Well generally by turn 4 I'll have a Heartless Summoning on the field, well hopefully at least, so tutoring for it with Gifts seems unlikely. But yeah it's still an option.
With Gifts and taking a win-con, they'll most likely put the creature into the graveyard, and unfortunately the only way I'd be able to bring it back is with a Havengul Lich . I was thinking alternate targets could be Myr Retriever , Transmute spell/Golem's Heart , Falkenrath Noble , and Havengul Lich . With that scenario the opponent will most likely put the Noble and Lich into the graveyard, removing my access to either of them without another Lich. That's the only problem with that scenario. That option nets me basically only two cards. With the option in the Update it nets me basically 3 cards since I don't mind the Retriever going to the graveyard, and I can get the other two artifacts back with the Retriever.
The pros of Jarad's Orders however basically allows me to ALWAYS get one of those win-con creatures. And as you said get me two Retrievers (which I would only do if I have another win-con in my hand/on the field).
It's iffy, I'm not sure which one is better. And as far as running the 3 colors, with the Shocklands and Fetchlands it really shouldn't be a problem, especially by turn 4.
But as far as running them at all, I'm really not sure. The speed of the deck is fairly fast as it is, but I've had games that go on till turn 10ish if I can't draw any tutors/win-cons. It's unlikely, but it does happen. I'd only run two of either of them. It's pretty much to end the game by hopefully that turn or the next.
March 8, 2014 4:14 a.m.
Have you considered running more win-cons instead? It sounds like you have no problem getting a Heartless Summoning and two Myr Retriever , its just drawing a win-con that's giving you trouble.
If that's the case, adding more win-cons would be a more direct approach than throwing in tutors. Also, I feel like Golem's Heart can be replaced with an actual win-con. Infinite life is fun, but there are certainly decks (like yours) that can deal infinite damage. Some win-cons that came to mind are Selhoff Occultist , Blasting Station or Golem Foundry to win next turn. I also feel like these are more reliable than the Vedalken Archmage Laboratory Maniac combo. Or at least less likely to accidently lose you the game.
March 8, 2014 12:23 p.m.
I like the Golem's Heart because I can tutor for it and get it back from the graveyard with a Retriever. But I definitely see where you're coming from.
I really really like the Selhoff Occultist in here, I think I'll find some room for it.
As for the Archmage combo, the good part about is that it doesn't just have to serve as a win-con. One by itself just nets me card advantage. Generally I'll just draw into a Noble and win through that. The Maniac is just in there as an alternate way to win.
Thanks a bunch for the suggestions.
Sach_squatch says... #8
Yeah too bad Falkenrath Noble is a turn 4 cast :P in addition to the other 2 Myr Retrievers your looking at a turn 5 win, not turn 3.
Really the only turn 3 decks are Silvers and Goblins and in excessively rare cases Vampires... And Fast Bond decks. All of which you seem to have evaded in this deck.
March 8, 2014 12:50 a.m.