Narset, Dragon Champion

Standard TheHroth

SCORE: 108 | 80 COMMENTS | 11157 VIEWS | IN 19 FOLDERS


ManiacMike0643 says... #1

I suppose we'll see what Red planeswalker M15 gives us to replace Chandra, Pyromaster

Could use another Keranos, God of Storms and lose a Fated Retribution I think Fated is just too expensive and it kills your Elspeth, Sun's Champion which is BAD!

May 25, 2014 7:37 p.m.

TheHroth says... #2

Good point on Fated Retribution . There just really isn't a replacement for Supreme Verdict :-(

Hope the new red walker is good. Chandra is nice, if the new one isnt as good I'll be sad.

May 25, 2014 9:52 p.m.

Mr_Miltank1 says... #3

I do like this deck, I'm a fan of main board Deicide

I have made a deck similar if you don't mind checking it out President Keranos will see you now *Theros block*

May 27, 2014 7:07 p.m.

TheHroth says... #4

I suppose there are enough targets to make Deicide deserve a slot in the main. What would you swap it with? I was thinking both Anger of the Gods (really is a better sideboard) and one copy of Opportunity .

May 28, 2014 3:58 a.m.

Fonzii says... #5

I 100% suggest switching your 4x Opportunity to 4x Divination . Opportunity draws you more cards, but Divination doesn't cost 3 million mana and can get you going a bit faster. R.I.P. Sphinx's Revelation ... in another few months, and its usable in modern, so it will probably continue to see some play. But it will still hurt. List looks pretty solid though. I like it. I usually try to squeeze a single Elixir of Immortality into my control decks, but I'm not really sure what you should take out here. Maybe drop to one Fated Retribution as it could mess you up, but could also be useful, so really it could go either way I suppose. Just some thoughts. I have a standard american control I'm tinkering with, feel free to check it out. ( America Loves to Control )

May 29, 2014 8:05 p.m.

TheHroth says... #6

@Fonzii

I'm running Opportunity over Divination for several reasons. First, it actually draws more cards than Sphinx's Revelation for the same mana....but no lifegain! :'(

Divination is also a sorcery, which I dislike. Ideally I'd play Inspiration , but it will be leaving (in which case I'd ideally be playing Sphinx's Revelation so this whole tangent about Inspiration was mostly pointless).

Point there being, Opportunity will be staying because of its speed. I'd rather save the mana for potential counterspells then not use them than risk an opponent playing something I definitely want to counter.

Elixir of Immortality would be a good addition, and I totally forgot about it. I'll see if I can squeeze it in somewhere...

Thanks for the feedback!

May 29, 2014 9:06 p.m.

Fonzii says... #7

I keep forgetting that Divination is a sorcery. It annoys me to no end. Before I cut it from my own deck I had many turns where I was conflicted as to play the Divination or keep mana open for a counter. I see where you're coming from now, although once Khans hits I hope there's some good draw cards or else we might just be stuck with Divination , or whatever M15 gives us (Hopefully more than Soul of Ravnica....). Good explanation.

Also, have you been able to test this out at any block events? See what its matchups are like etc. The biggest problem for control to deal with right now is often either protection in the form of Mistcutter Hydra and Stormbreath Dragon (thank god the Blood Baron of Vizkopa party is coming to an end), and also very fast/ very burny (burny?) decks such as RDW and mono-red/boros burn.

Seem's like you should be able to live past the early game if you get your Lightning Strike s and Magma Jet s for the small guys, and hopefully siding in the extras of those will help, along with Brimaz, King of Oreskos having vigilance so he can hang around to block while somewhat punishing them for attacking with everything. Just watch out because searing blood after a block is pretty much the worst thing ever, and could mess you up.

As for Mistcutter Hydra , any x 3 can easily be burned, and for x 4 you have the options of Reprisal , Banishing Light , Elspeth, Sun's Champion 's -3, and if you really need to Fated Retribution or even a double burn. Seems good.

Stormbreath Dragon , on the other hand, can be a bit more tricky. Elspeth, Sun's Champion can take him down no problem (albeit she will be very vulnerable), but besides that, you're either going to have to manage to counter him, or somehow try to double burn before it gets big. I can see Stormbreath Dragon Being huge after rotation, so you might want to watch out for these. Perhaps some Celestial Flare s (sideboarded?) until Khans comes out, seeing as how they can deal with anything provided that either A. They're only attacking with one thing, or B. You just burn/kill whatever else is coming your way then flare the important guy.

The only other thing I see is that beyond your newly added Elixir of Immortality , once your life drops, it's down, which can be pretty sketchy, especially against the aforementioned burn, but off of the top of my head, I don't really know what could viably fix this.

I'm just trying to assess some of the biggest issues these decks can have, seeing as how I really like American Control and definitely want to keep running it after rotation. Although hopefully by the time rotation actually comes, Khans/M15 will have helped to address some of these problems, without adding too many more crazy threats.

These are just some thoughts from one control player to another; take them as you want. Happy Americaning! (Americaning?)

~Ps. I love the Prognostic Sphinx , even if it isnt too great in current standard. Helped me to almost win Journey prerelease, I just got outpaced by who else than Stormbreath Dragon during my final matches. Not that this is relevant. Just nice to see the Sphinx with a home. Also sorry this is like a brick wall of text, didn't really mean for that to happen.

May 29, 2014 9:54 p.m.

TheHroth says... #8

@Fonzii

Unfortunately I havn't had the chance to test this build anywhere besides home. Not having all the cards yet makes it rather difficult to get into a tournament :p

Saying to the head judge: "But I have the deck online, isn't that good enough?" unfortunately doesn't get you in. :/

And don't worry about the long comment... We've all left long ones before, and seriously, taking the time to write it is hugely appreciated.

I took a long time considering how to deal with Mistcutter Hydra here, and you got them all, except Anger of the Gods , because sometimes he does come in small...lol

For Stormbreath Dragon , I can also kill him at any time with Reprisal , which makes me hesitate on sideboard Celestial Flare (especially because double white can be hard to hit).

Sucks I can't play Hero's Downfall (wait...two Mana Confluence is totally consistent enough as a black source to merit a set of Hero's Downfall , right?).

As for life problems, I'm running into the same problem with the Theros block Esper control I'm working on. Losing 4 slots from Sphinx's Revelation as both lifegain and draw, is near irreplaceable. Unless I draw into every counterspell and burn spell, RDW will beat me consistently. One Elixir of Immortality isn't enough, but there isn't anything else worth putting in. Ahh first world problems! :-(

If only Brimaz, King of Oreskos had lifelink too. ;-)

Glad to see another Prognostic Sphinx lover here. Unless something good come with Khans, I firmly believe he will replace AEtherling in standard control.

Once again, thanks for the comment! :-)

May 29, 2014 11:19 p.m.

Fonzii says... #9

@ TheHroth

Stormbreath Dragon has pro-white. Reprisal ins just going to bounce off of him like nothing. This is really what makes him annoying. (Also what lost me the prerelease, U/W fliers with only white removal pulled......). He is definitely the biggest threat here, but the Reprisal s are really awesome against pretty much every other threat, so they should definitely stay in. Hmm. Not sure what to do about him. As for the lifegain, the only things M15 has got right now is maybe a single Resolute Archangel (http://mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/resolutearchangel.html) or maybe a Meditation Puzzle (http://mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/meditationpuzzle.html) if you really had to. Of course, you could always just run a playset of Elixir of Immortality to really screw with the other guy. That'd be pretty funny.

May 30, 2014 7:53 a.m.

TheHroth says... #10

Damn... I'd forgotten Stormbreath Dragon was pro white. Silly me.... I knew something sounded wrong about what I was saying.

Resolute Archangel seems cool, but perhaps as a sideboard. Mainboard, Font of Vigor could work I think.

Meditation Puzzle could work well too, we'll see how the rest of the set ends up. :-)

May 30, 2014 11:39 a.m.

asasinater13 says... #11

I would probably up the mainboarded Elixir of Immortality before I went for mainboarding some Font of Vigor , cheaper to play, use, and has extra utility.

June 19, 2014 7:40 p.m.

TheHroth says... #12

Due to the fact that there is no spoiled reprint of Elixir of Immortality yet, I'm reluctant to add more. I also don't know what I'd take out to add more, but I do agree that it would be much more beneficial than Font of Vigor .

June 19, 2014 11:06 p.m.

supertramp_63 says... #13

I would reconsider running both Perilous Vault and Banishing Light . They kind of conflict with each other. Once you drop a Banishing Light on a planeswalker or large creature, activating Perilous Vault will bring the kill the Banishing Light and bring whatever it banished back into play. I'm actually on the fence about whether Perilous Vault will see a lot of play, due to having to adjust the deck for that reason. Plus it's a little expensive and vulnerable anyways.

Magic 2015 hasn't really brought anything up to help UWx control, though there are still a few dozen or so cards left that we haven't seen, so that might. Most likely though, you'll be relying on Theros block for most of your cards.

I love Prognostic Sphinx , and it looks like he'll be the replacement for AEtherling . In my playtesting, Keranos, God of Storms + Prognostic Sphinx has basically locked up my games for me, even without Keranos ever becoming a creature.

I'm not sure if Anger the gods is main board material, though depending how things might go, it might be useful. From the Theros block tournaments I've seen recently, something like 70% of decks are playing both Courser of Kruphix and Sylvan Caryatid . If only it dealt 4 damage. It is a nice way to get rid of those Sylvan Caryatid , but the Courser of Kruphix seem to be more important. Definitely make sure you have ways to deal with those.

You know what would be really nice? Some mana acceleration, like Wayfarer's Bauble . I had a UW control deck that ran it and it was perfect. Even just something like Azorius Signet or Talisman of Progress would make stuff like Fated Retribution much more viable. Definitely have to keep a lookout for something like that.

As for the Divination versus Jace's Ingenuity debate, think about this: you can't play Jace's Ingenuity until at least turn 5. With Divination , you can cast it on turn 6 and still have the mana open to counter a spell or burn a creature, plus Divination can dig through your deck earlier than Jace's Ingenuity . I might consider a 3/1 or 2/2 split, because 4 Jace's Ingenuity seems like too many, at least through my few test matches.

I'm in the same boat as you, man. I've got a UW control deck that I've been nursing for a little while, and she's just barely holding on now. Rotation is going to put her on life support. I'm honestly not sure if it will be viable, even with all the strong match ups against mid-range decks. I've tried splashing colors, too. I'm currently trying an Esper with Thoughtseize , Hero's Downfall and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver . I'm not sure if it's an improvement though. A little slower than what I'd like. Before that, I actually had a red splash like yours, with Magma Jet and Lightning Helix . Before that, I tried a green splash with Kiora, the Crashing Wave which is actually apearing in some block tournaments, usually with a combination of Courser of Kruphix , Sylvan Caryatid , and Prognostic Sphinx . Sorta looks like a mid-range UWG control deck.

I admire your efforts to try and make UW workable, but I'm not sure it will be. But who knows? Maybe they'll give us back our Mana Leak and Wrath of God .

July 8, 2014 10:13 p.m.

TheHroth says... #14

@supertramp_63

Thanks for the comment!

Good point about Perilous Vault . Perhaps I could keep it sideboarded, and bring it in against aggro and midrange type builds...Banishing Light is much better in the mirror.

About Anger of the Gods , I've noticed the same thing about just about every single deck running those two cards, and it really is quite disappointing it doesn't hit Courser of Kruphix , but against aggro and any midrange build including green, it works well.

Wayfarer's Bauble is something I hadn't thought of, but could potentially work. I could up my Fated Retribution count too, and hopefully hit that boardwipe consistently. I just hope Khans of Tarkir brings something more akin to Supreme Verdict ....I really dont want to have to kill my own walkers.

Jace's Ingenuity is staying. I wish I could run Sphinx's Revelation (duh) but losing the instant speed of the draw spell is too much for me. I have Steam Augury for less pricy draw. With my 26 land, I've never had problems getting to 5.

I'm working on an Esper build too, the link is in the description. Please check it out if you can. The UW base is mostly the same, and I feel the black brings more to the table than the red, but I can't help but like the feel of Keranos, God of Storms more than that of Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver .

July 9, 2014 9:08 a.m.

supertramp_63 says... #15

I should clarify that Wayfarer's Bauble is not in standard. I was just seeing I wish it or a mana artifact like Azorius Signet or Talisman of Progress was legal, to help out a the high end of the mana.

Yeah, Anger the gods is really good against aggro decks. I would definitely keep it around for now.

Yeah, I don't like Fated Retribution because it can kill your planeswalkers too.

Definately keep Jace's Ingenuity , but I wouldn't keep Steam Augury . In my playtesting, it's pretty much a reverse Fact or Fiction , so no matter how you split the cards, they can keep you from getting that one you need. Definitely a fun one though.

About your Esper deck. I was working on one, but come post rotation, I'm working on a Jung Control deck. It uses In Garruk's Wake .


In Garruk's Wake (Jund Post Rotation) Playtest

Standard supertramp_63

SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 1 VIEWS

July 10, 2014 12:11 a.m.

TheHroth says... #16

I know it isnt standard, but the idea is still valid. Could use Burnished Hart or Traveler's Amulet in a pinch, but I'd rather splash green for Courser of Kruphix (surprise surprise haha).

UWx control may not be as good, so I might try working on some midrange build until we see what Khans of Tarkir brings us.

July 10, 2014 1:53 a.m.

hijuice19 says... #17

maybe hushwing gryff and dissipate could be useful

August 1, 2014 9:35 p.m.

the only 100% solid removal here is Banishing Light could you not replace some of your land with Mountain s so you can run Chained to the Rocks ?

August 3, 2014 4:38 a.m.

TheHroth says... #19

@hijuice19

Yes and yes. I have not updated the deck in a while, but should add those. Hushwing Gryff I forsee being a superb sideboard against mono/devotion builds, and any other annoying effects (tribute, constellation, etc...), and Dissipate is simply another 1UU counterspell. With an added bonus of exile.

@ManiacMike0643

I feel silly. I don't know why I hadn't thought of that. I'd need quite a few mountains to make it work though...don't want to draw Chained to the Rocks without one. I'll need to do some tests with the mana base to make it work. Sucks Steam Vents and Sacred Foundry are rotating.

Thank you both for the suggestions!

August 3, 2014 5:08 p.m.

Really like both builds, I'm working on post rotation Esper as well, but don't have a build hammered out yet. I am surprised not to see Last Breath here though. 2 mana, instant speed, gets rid of every early game aggressor that will cause you problems. Really good spell, and I feel like we'll see another season of strong white weenies, and it almost feels like tribal is on the horizon. Also, for chained to the rocks, why not run Evolving Wilds

August 6, 2014 1:45 a.m.

TheHroth says... #21

Last Breath is something I havn't played with much outside of drafts with my friends...

There is no doubt it is a powerful spell. I toyed with it a little in my original build, but felt it was a bit weak sometimes.

With all the people suggesting it though, I'll gladly play around with it more, and see whether it merits a slot in the mainboard or the side.

I had considered Evolving Wilds to fetch mountains, and that was part of what I was going to be testig with a new mana base. Its all numbers and stats really...whats the benefit of an Evolving Wild vs another land?

It fetches my mountains for Chained to the Rocks , or any other basic I need at the time if I already have a mountain. So getting the perfect colour is nice if I'm missing a second source of any colour.

The only real cons to it are it only fetches basics (but the Zendikar fetches wouldn't help any more, due to Rav shock lands rotating) so no huge deal there. Also makes my basics enter tapped, and the real glory of the few basic lands control has is that they enter untapped...again, only testing will tell!

Thanks a lot for the comment!

August 6, 2014 2:48 a.m.

Last Breath is really good in the early game, but I see what you mean about it not hitting everything, and can be dead in some match ups and in the late game.

I feel Evolving Wilds will be better post rotation, but to me, Khans kinda looks like it will have the flavor of Kamigawa and the power of Onslaught... don't know if it's bad or good, but we only had basics for the fetches during the oddessy/onslaught standard, which makes evolving wilds just as efficient without the drawback.

Thanks for checking out my build as well, I'll link my post rotation build when I have it a little more smoothed out.

August 6, 2014 4:05 a.m.

oscar42 says... #23

3 keranos is too much. 1-2 should be enough8 3-mana counters is too much too. Try 4-5 3mana counters and 1-3 2mana counters (there should be a newone coming). Use those free slots for instant removal.

September 2, 2014 10:38 a.m.

asasinater13 says... #24

not enough card advantage at all, Dictate of Kruphix or Divination , dicate is cool because you ahve the control to make sure other players aren't getting to use all their cards well.

you should also get less win-cons, more control. right now you've got elspeth, sarkhan, keranos, narset, and resolute archangel, so 1/6 of your deck is a win-con. you'll much more want to only draw into one or two of those a game, so you can take out some and have room for removal, card advantage, and a few negates (every relevant deck has walkers, instants/sorceries, or artifacts/enchantments they care about. it's worth running, the only deck it's really bad against is like, rabble red.)

September 2, 2014 12:36 p.m.

oscar42 says... #25

Negate is sidedeck material. Put 4 spot removals at its place

September 4, 2014 7:12 a.m.

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