Wouldn't Altar of Dementia be a good addition to the deck due to the sac outlet? I'm a fairly new player so I'm just wondering about your thoughts on it

Skydaddy : Thanks for bringing it up! Yup, Altar of Dementia would be a great choice to add in. I've personally used it in both my Trostani list (which I definitely need to update!) and my Mono-Black Chainer list to great effect. Altar's strongest point is that it lets you mill out decks you cannot beat with combat damage alone. However, this deck tends to not have enough juice to mill someone out entirely, so I chose to explore other options first. Also, I don't expect this list to be too heavy-handed on the number of sacrifice outlets, but Altar's main usage as a self-mill card would shine in a deck like this. I know from experience that it functions well overall, it likely should have a home here.

I will probably replace Goblin Bombardment with Alter, as Bombardment's effect has had less impact than I originally expected. If this deck were to take a more go-wide plan with tokens, Bombardment would work much better. I have other changes in mind for this deck too, primarily involving Sneak Attack and some other large beaters such as Grave Titan and Sepulchral Primordial . Altar of Dementia should perform even better in that case, so I'll definitely take the opportunity to add it to the decklist once I get some major changes ironed out. Cheers, and thanks for +1'ing the deck! =]

FunnyDuck: Yeah I was thinking Altar of Dementia would be better than Bombardment when I originally saw it, whether you want to be a pain and just mill someone real quick or just self-mill. And I'm strongly considering building something similar to this deck, when I saw Chainer, Nightmare Adept I knew I wanted to build a deck with him at the helm. I can assure you I will be coming back and looking for updates!

Also what about the OG Chainer? Seems like he would be decent but as for what to take out, idk.

Skydaddy : The issues with old Chainer are mainly his fragility and mana investment.

Chainer, Dementia Master exiles all cards reanimated with him as soon as he leaves the battlefield. Now normally in a mono-black Chainer list, this downside is circumvented through a large quantity of instant-speed Sac Outlets, as you can just sacrifice your revived creatures in response to the removal spell. This deck lacks the critical mass of sacrifice outlets necessary for you to reliably have one up at all times, making OG Chainer very susceptible to removal. A lot of players I commonly play against know my mono-black Chainer list already, and understand just how powerful he can be. He's often the target for their removal, simply based on experience. In fact, I rarely summon Chainer out unless I have a sac outlet out and ready to be used.

You also have to factor in Chainer's casting cost when considering him as a reanimation spell. The cost to reanimate each individual creature is insane, yes, but the first creature you reanimate with him effectively costs 8 mana to get. In a deck focused around protecting and abusing Chainer, that matters much less, but as he'd be part of the 99 in this deck, I cannot guarantee that he'd be protected well enough to ensure a second or third activation.

If I had more protection, I would definitely consider him more strongly, but I can just see the situation where I spend 8 mana, eat a removal spell, with no super easy way to revive the Chainer that just died. He'd just be a bit too unreliable for my taste as part of the 99, but I will test him out alongside more methods of cheating mana costs, as it seems like that's what this deck truly wants to do. He might be good here, but I'm not so sure he'd be great. But, if you want to use him to his fullest, I'd definitely recommend trying OG Chainer out as a commander. He's by far and away the most fun mono-colored commander I've played, and is definitely one of the most flexible and powerful options mono-black has to offer.

FunnyDuck: Fair enough, was just wondering what you thought about him being in.

I've been looking at Necropotence a lot lately which I know on the surface it sound like a terrible idea considering the theme of the deck but paired with something like Library of Leng . Paired with Bolas's Citadel you could fly through your deck due to exiling the lands with Necro. Maybe too many pieces having to work there but the mind wonders I suppose.

But I do suppose with Divining Top and Citadel you can already do that

Necropotence is still a great card, but discarding to Chainer, Nightmare Adept is a pretty big part of this deck. I found it hard to play around that bit of anti-synergy, but Necro is still such a powerful card that I wouldn't fault you for trying it out. If you do decide to go that route, Dark Ritual becomes a pretty nasty card, enabling a turn 1 Necro.

Library of Leng is pretty neat, but it does not let you circumvent discarding to pay the cost of an effect, so it wouldn't help out regarding Chainer's ability anyways. The only way Library and Necro work together effectively in this deck is because Library gets rid of the hand size limit, but I've found Reliquary Tower and Thought Vessel to be better choices for that effect.

What cards are you actually cutting? Deck is up to 107.

Skydaddy Just finished updating the list to reflect what I've been using for the past couple of pod games. I can't remember each specific change, but I altered the strategy of the deck a bit to include a focus on Sneak Attack and other top-of-deck cheaters like Bolas's Citadel which can take great advantage of Chainer's haste granting effect. This inclusion has the added benefit of mitigating some of the effectiveness of repeated graveyard hate against this deck; getting hit by 3 other players' Bojuka Bog s in one game left me unable to do anything at all. I also included more instant-speed recursion effects such as Phyrexian Reclamation and Necromancy which can be used in a pinch to save the best of the bunch in the event a one-time grave exile effect goes off.

I removed the Aetherflux + Citadel combo in the meantime, as the inclusion of Aetherflux specifically felt extremely clunky without any additional artifact support. I have been in talks with some others regarding abusing that combo in Chainer alongside things like Goblin Engineer and Goblin Welder , but that's not the direction I'm looking to take this deck right now.

I know this is probably not what you were hoping for regarding explanations or cuts, but just know that there are more than a few cards I'm looking to work back into the list, namely Lightning Greaves and a second Sac Outlet. But right now the addition of Sneak Attack and other large creatures has been pretty darn fun! This is definitely a unique take on the reanimator style for me, so I'm willing to play it out a bit longer to see how it lasts.

Sire Of Insanity is a bomb in a deck like chainer, might wanna consider running it.

Sire is actually already in the list, under the Discard Related section. No worries if you didn't catch it in there earlier, the custom categories are honestly pretty gnarly to look through. If you have trouble spotting anything else specific, you can change the categories in the dropdown menus right at the top of the lands section. If fact, I'm thinking of changing the viewing back to the default, the list looks pretty messy right now unfortunately, haha.

But yea, Sire of Insanity has been, well, insane. I mainly use him as a hedge against control-oriented decks, and I've found that he functions in his role in this deck even better than Mindslicer , who I would otherwise normally run. Mindslicer has been a house in my Mono-Black Chainer list, but Sire's ability to wreck hands while remaining a sizable threat on board matches up with this deck's gameplan much better.

FunnyDuck I love to see the changes you are making in the deck, it's allowing me to see a lot of different cards and letting me sort of determine how I want to go about making a Chainer deck myself. Have you thought about a card like Malfegor ? I remembered him from when I was running a dragon tribal and thought he might make a good addition due to him being a pretty big threat on the board, a nice little board wipe while also throwing cards into your graveyard. Don't see this guy talked about a lot honestly.

FunnyDuck Also what was your reasoning for cutting Torment of Hailfire ? Seemed like a good finisher card to me and would go hand in hand with a card like Waste Not

Skydaddy I've never heard of Mafegor actually, but that also means I've never really seen him used yet. Look pretty interesting though!

As for Torment of Hailfire, I've been testing with Kokusho, the Evening Star in that slot instead. Not sure if this deck can sustain a Kokusho loop for very long, especially with only 1 sac outlet, but I want to test out the dragon a bit more with Sneak Attack before I revert any changes. Hailfire was honestly getting pretty boring to resolve, but it's still highly effective and useful to have around. Might come back in, especially with Vedalken Orrery in the list. Cheers, and I'm glad you're liking the changes! =]

+1 for the fleetwood mac reference! Use Flayer of the Hatebound

Thanks for the +1! Always appreciate it.

And thanks for the heads up on Flayer. I originally took it out because it actually does not trigger off of things like Living Death or Sepulchral Primordial , but getting a consistent effect off of Chainer's ability is probably good enough. I'll try it out, one came in the precon after all! =]

Deadpoo111 Just found out last night that Flayer of the Hatebound does not actually get the tigger off if you cast a creature from grave with Chainer, Nightmare Adept . The creature technically goes onto the stack and enters the field from there, not from the graveyard directly.

Given that, Flayer loses a good bit of use in my mind, because it'd be much much harder to guarantee it'll be out alongside something like Reanimate or Rise of the Dark Realms . Shame, because he's pretty darn powerful otherwise.

FunnyDuck I myself finally got around to building my Chainer deck and was wondering if you ever made any changes to yours? I've only been able to play with mine a few times but it felt nice to get a turn 2 Grave Titan . Ended up slugging it out against a friend's deck and ultimately losing but with being mana screwed for most of the game and still eliminating the other two players, it was a very fun game.

Skydaddy Glad to hear that you've been having a good time so far with your own Chainer build, unfortunate that you weren't able to pull the W in the end. I haven't been keeping up to date with my lists in general lately, but if I can spot some free time this week I'll make this list a top priority to update. For example, I've been trying out Vicious Shadows and it's been a monster of a closer card so far. Dunno yet if it's good, but it feels fantastic when it goes off.

In terms of includes from the newest standard set, the really strong contenders for this deck are Thrill of Possibility , Witch's Cottage , and Castle Locthwain . I could see Murderous Rider as a neat alternate choice vs. things like Shriekmaw or Ravenous Chupacabra , but you lose a lot of sick ETB ability abuse. Syr Konrad, the Grim is a little bit too expensive for what he does IMO, but I will be testing him out. The Drawbridge that gives everything haste is also pretty neat, but I will probably be slotting that into my G/W decks first, as there are fewer mass-haste effects in those colors. Keep having fun with your deck dude, I wish you good luck in your upcoming games =]

FunnyDuck

My list

There's my list currently, it has performed pretty well. Ended up picking a few wins in my last get together. Definitely a different deck for me, I currently have a Yarok deck that is a pure value engine so switching to this was a bit different but I feel like I have to really work for my wins.

Very nice list, I think we have similar philosophies when building Chainer. I have yet to edit my own list with new cards from Modern Horizons 2. I didn't even think to use Liquimetal Torque, and the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Have you considered Shenanigans as another reusable source of artifact destruction? I'm curious about your use of Ilharg. For me, it seems like one of those cards that look really good on paper but rarely pan out in practice. The fatty creatures are always the first I dump into the graveyard under most circumstances, so I often just don't have one in hand to make Ilharg worth it. Finally, have you considered Feast of Sanity? Even with just Chainer's discard, being able to take out smaller creatures or ping opponents while padding your life seems great for Chainer.

Cornonjacob07

Thanks for the support! I'll try and take a look at your own list when I have the time if you want some suggestions there as well.

First, Shenanigans ! I had it in the list for a while as a stand in for Golgari Thug (who's pricey for an uncommon) and it performed...better as discard fodder than as artifact removal. Ingot Chewer does a lot for this deck and is much more abusable and cheaper to cast (9 times out of 10 you evoke it).

I essentially only have room for 3 expendable single-target removal slots after all the synergistic options like Shriekmaw . Between Baleful Mastery , Bedevil , Chaos Warp , Rakdos Charm , Vandalblast , By Force , and Shenanigans itself (for examples), I prize the exile effect and mana efficiency on Baleful Mastery first and foremost (if you're wheeling frequently with Magus of the Wheel or even Ruin Grinder a single draw is irrelevant), with Chaos Warp acting as another non-destruction removal piece that isn't restricted on what it can hit. All of that covers creature removal quite thoroughly, so I looked to dedicated artifact removal next.

I chose Vandalblast over any other targeted artifact removal due to the popularity of Osgir, the Reconstructor and Voltron-style Sword of X & Y equipment decks. A non-targeting wipe is significantly stronger against artifact decks like them vs. an incremental single-target destruction effect like Shenanigans. If you don't have a go-wide artifact deck like Osgir in your play environment, feel free to use Shenanigans over Vandalblast and reap some extra discard synergy in the meantime.

For Ilharg, the Raze-Boar I wanted a threat to work as an independent backup plan from the graveyard. The best response a graveyard deck can have against grave hate is to practice moderation, and Ilharg attacks on a similar angle to Sneak Attack without adding to the graveyard unnecessarily. The vast majority of ETB effects in the deck are valuable and worth repeating over and over again, while Ilharg itself is a hard-to-remove threat in its own right. If you are having trouble with needing creatures in hand to abuse, I would highly recommend Phyrexian Reclamation ...so much so that I wouldn't even suggest running Sneak or Ilharg without it!

And trust me when I say that sneaking in a Master of Cruelties off of Ilharg is a devious play that is guaranteed to turn heads and take names!

I will definitely have to consider giving Ilharg another try. I've been experimenting with the deck a lot lately.

While Ingot Chewer does have its merit, I do like that Shenanigans is similarly "always available" and doesn't require me to use my graveyard cast for the turn.

In lieu of Vandalblast, I went for the greedier play in my build with Hellkite Tyrant. It only devastates one player and isn't as straightforward, but it also puts me incredibly ahead and is reusable as a creature.

I'm in the process of slimming down some of my toolbox and redundancy cards as we've been lucky to get some great tutors as of late that fit into Chainer such as Burning-Rune Demon, Oriq Loremage, and the new Vile Entomber if I want more. Apprentice Necromancer is an example of one of these cuts as it's a good card, but usually a poor man's Doomed Necromancer or Feldon in the situations where you would want to be using it. As for Baleful Mastery, will definitely consider it. I of course use Magus of the Wheel, though I'm more partial to the "Discard hand, draw 3" cards like Anje's Ravager, Ox of Agonas, and the recently cut Rix Maadi Reveler. While I am reconsidering this stance, either way, having such a cheap instant exile is definitely worth looking into.

Miscellaneous thoughts, I recommend you Kardur, Doomscourge. I've found it's been an amazing addition to my toolbox and has won me games and is in general a huge headache for opponents. I also wanted to get your opinion on Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded. One of the lessons I've recently learned is how near mandatory Anger is and possibly another backup haste enabler. New Purphoros gives wide haste, is hard to remove, will sometimes be a decent sized threat itself, and has Sneak Attack lite.