Nobody has the intention of building a Wall

Commander / EDH K4m4r0

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HobbyGamer007 says... #1

Sure thing. Sorry that took a while:

Out:

In:

Mana base(33 is enough at this average cmc):

That's what I'd do and then playtest it and go tweaking. Hope that helps and also that it wasn't too brutal. For real tweaking please add a list of decks you play against or how a normal game looks like(amount of combo decks, creature decks, control decks per game). You do run lot's of creature spot removal, but I let that in, since you might need it.

July 18, 2018 5:16 p.m.

K4m4r0 says... #2

Wow nice list, don’t worry it’s not too brutal. I‘ll go through it tomorrow since it is almost midnight here. Thanks in advance

July 18, 2018 5:24 p.m. Edited.

K4m4r0 says... #3

HobbyGamer007 Thank you for your time and effort, i'll go through every card now.

  • Woolly Razorback: I know, I usually had it in here as another Plan B if Arcades gets too much hate but it's proven itself worthless and it will be exchanged.
  • Counter: I know they are not the best and I'll replace them with some of you suggestions maybe, also probably Cyclonic Rift and Stifle
  • Cultivate will be replaced with Farseek and i can't part with my japanese Skyshroud Claim i pulled in a Battlebond booster while I was in Tokyo. I know it's not the fastest but I also like Lands more than mana dorks because creatures die a lot faster in ouf group.
  • Nature's Claim is a great card and it will replace Disenchant
  • Don't underestimate Shield Wall and Steadfastness (the other mentioned cards are way worse). Normally I have 5-6 defender on the battlefield with an avg. toughness of 5, that's 25/30 strenght + one of the instants its 35-45 strenght which is normally enough to kill an opponent. Those cards often gave me the 1-2 extra damage I needed to kill.
  • Disallow I like it because it gives versatility, but could be replaced with Stifle
  • Dispel is very narrow and wasn't very usefull, could also be replaced
  • Reality Shift is nice, probably switch Pongify for it
  • Dorks: as I said, I don't really like dorks, maybe Noble Hierarch and/or Birds of Paradise will find a slot some day
  • Signets are great to get the commander faster, depending on where I want to go with it
  • Muddle the Mixture I don't really have any crucial 3 cmc cards in the deck yet
  • Mystical Tutor great and could search Tower Defense for example but I don't think it is mach needed yet
  • Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile are very nice I look if I can get my hands one one, but without lifegain I prefer Mirri's Guile

For the lands, they are very good and I mentioned a lot of them under the "Fast Mana Base" tab. But I initially tried to keep the deck on a budget also because I think a lot of people following the deck will do. Nonetheless I increasingly wish for cards like Strip Mine in my deck. So I'll probably add one or two in the future. Also I'd probably add Adarkar Wastes and Brushland.

Thank you again for your suggestions and I'm happy that you took the time to comment on my deck to show me good improvements for my existing cards!

July 19, 2018 noon

HobbyGamer007 says... #4

Oh yeah it was close to midnight here as well. Make that -1 Island, -1 Forest and -1 Plains from my list for

Breeding Pool, Hallowed Fountain and Temple Garden obviously

July 19, 2018 2:04 p.m.

HobbyGamer007 says... #5

@Vlasiax oh yeah that is just a typo. Muddle finds stuff like Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Heroic Intervention and more. Really worth it here. Yeah if even more ramp is needed there's still Avacyn's Pilgrim, Boreal Druid, Nature's Lore and Three Visits.

July 19, 2018 4:19 p.m.

HobbyGamer007 says... #6

@K4m4r0: Awesome that I could help. While I can agree with most of your points I'd strongly advise against running Stifle over either Disallow or Trickbind. The reason why I like Trickbind so much is that most of the games won in my playgroup are won by some kind of triggered or activated ability, be it Strionic Resonator or Isochron Scepter or Paradox Engine or Walking Ballista. The list there is endless. And Trickbind stops them, is basically uncounterable(since noone runs that morph mage) and you can't just stack additional triggers on top of it. It just gets the job done.

As said already, typo, Muddle searches for cmc=2. Slot it in :)

Other than that I'd be thrilled to hear how the updated deck performs :)

July 19, 2018 4:27 p.m.

HobbyGamer007 says... #7

Sorry for the many comments, I can't seem to focus today xD

If you are worried for Arcedes drawing too much hate, there is Command Beacon that can help. One of the strongest protectors out there is Sylvan Safekeeper. Sure sacrificing a land sucks, but if your opponents see that their removal will be for naught, they will use it on something else. Assault Formation works and can be tutored by Muddle the Mixture. Other than that there's still Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots and if you wanna be really aggressive about it and your playgroup is slow enough Asceticism

July 19, 2018 4:33 p.m.

Mitrian says... #8

I’ve been playing a similar list to this and it’s been much better than I expected. Arcades does draw a ton of hate, and as a result I’ve tweaked it to include Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves along with Enlightened Tutor.

Another couple additions I made were Angelic Chorus and Trostani, Selesnya's Voice. Both of those have done some amazing work. And then, due to their success, I also added Feed the Pack and Phyrexian Processor. Those last two may not stay, but I’m testing them now. I have once gotten the Feed the Pack and Tree of Redemption combo with Angelic Chorus on the battlefield, effectively doubling my life total and creating a ton of wolves. They were board wiped but the lifegain remained and I ended up winning largely because of it. I am also considering Aetherflux Reservoir as an alternate wincon simply because those two life gainers above synergize so well with all the cheap defenders. This does start to take the deck in another direction, but it works really well for only an investment of a couple cards.

I second the recommendation for Muddle the Mixture and would also recommend Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and Worldly Tutor.

What to take out for all these? Always the hard part, right? It’s hard to say because everyone has different preferences, but I’m not a fan of the cards that pump defense, especially at sorcery speed. So that’s a couple of spots to start. There’s also a couple defenders in your list that I think are just a bit too weak or too much mana for their body. I think Hobby mentioned a couple of those...

I’ll try to get my full list posted here soon for more ideas if you’re interested.

July 21, 2018 2:55 a.m.

K4m4r0 says... #9

You are all right with 2 cmc I was somehow focused on Drift of Phantasms, I need to reconsider all tutors you mentioned.

Vlasiax Thank you but I think I'm good for now with ramp. But I'll keep them in mind! Beastmaster Ascension is also a good suggestion, but I think it won't survive long enough since our playgrup is very anti-enchantment, that's the reason I dont run much and it would have to survive 2-3 turns on average to give a bonus.

HobbyGamer007Absolutely no problems, comments with good suggestions are always welcome! You are more than right with Trickbind. I overlooked it's benefits over Stifle and I'd probably include it in a future update, but I don't know if I part from Disallow. Until now Arcades didn't draw as much hate as other commanders but the threat is growing. Command Beacon spiked like crazy and I just don't want to buy it for this reason. I hope for a reprint in upcoming Commander 2018. The other suggestions are not bad either but I may go with Yavimaya Hollow since land destruction is not a big deal in our playgroup, yet.

Mitrian Thank you for your suggestions. Just about two days ago I've seen a lifegain Arcades on here and I suggested him to use Trostani, Selesnya's Voice since I run her as a commander. Nonetheless I think she could be extremely hard to cast in a 3 color deck for . Also It would draw my deck in another direction and I already have a lifegain deck. As I said earlier, don't underestimate the cards which pump toughness, they win games and since it's a beatdown deck it's not important if the are at sorcery speed (besides only Steadfastness is a sorcery). But your deck sounds very fun to play and you have a lot of good synergies. I'd be more than interested to see your full decklist! Also I'm interested if you have had any issues in casting Trostani and how the overall performance of the deck is and.

July 21, 2018 7:12 a.m.

Mitrian says... #10

Finally posted up my version: Trump's Paradise

I’ve had a really high win rate with this build, surprisingly so. When I built it, I figured it was probably a Tier 3 deck, but it does extremely well against higher tier decks. I think at least partially because of the disruption it runs and I don’t rely only on the combat phase to win, the deck has performed consistently well. It also may just be due to my meta, and that this style does well against it, who knows. But it’s been a ton of fun!

In regards to your question about Trostani, I’ve never had issues with mana colors, so far. I see her in maybe a third of the games I’ve played. Also, I play a lot of five color edh, so three colors seems easy to me sometimes! But these cards help a ton: Noble Hierarch, Axebane Guardian, Chromatic Lantern, Exotic Orchard, Seaside Citadel, Reflecting Pool, City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Command Tower, Farseek, and Nature’s Lore. And there are also all the fetchlands which I don’t currently have in my list.

There’s another card I noticed you dismissed already that I think is worthy of additional consideration because it’s been such an all-star: Mentor of the Meek. It triggers on literally every creature in our list except Arcades. And because the average CMC is so low for us, we’re playing out our hand constantly, especially once you get past turn five or so and you’ve tutored out either Axebane or Overgrown. This deck LOVES the extra gas from Mentor. I can’t say enough good things about him. Panharmonicon is great, but it requires Arcades. Mentor works regardless. Of course, having both is even better for the consistency of the deck.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your list, it gave me a number of good ideas that I’ve used to tweak my list.

July 24, 2018 2:59 a.m.

Mitrian says... #11

Two other thoughts: Meekstone is pretty effective for us, and since you like the pump spells, Solidarity. Higher cost than Tower Defense but might be worth it.

July 24, 2018 3:04 a.m.

MyFETTish says... #12

not sure if its been discussed at all, but have you considered adding some equiptment in here like Slagwurm Armor or Ensouled Scimitar?

July 25, 2018 1:50 p.m.

K4m4r0 says... #13

Mitrian Very nice list! I'm happy that you're successful with it! I made the same experience like you did, it performs very well even against high Tier decks and is a noteable competitor. Sure, your deck offer some more wincons than just beating down the opponents, but I haven't noticed any downsides yet. As you said, it all depends on the own meta :)

I'm glad to hear that about Trostani, I'm probably thinking too much and I almost run the same lands as you. Shouldn't be that hard to cast.

Mentor of the Meek is a cool card, but I'm not too sold on it yet since there is a lot of creature hate in our group and less artifact hate. On the other hand our M19 draft is still due, maybe we'll pull him.

Meekstone is good and I'll probably add it in the future, but at this time there are a lot of token decks with 1/1 and 2/2 tokens in our group making it useless. I put my eyes on Noetic Scales but haven't gotten a copy yet.

As you said Solidarity has a real high cmc but I have to admit I wasn't aware of this card. I will atleast buy one, maybe I'll add it some day.

Thanks again for your comments and I'm glad I have given you some ideas. I wish you all the best with your own Arcades list :)

July 25, 2018 2:10 p.m.

K4m4r0 says... #14

mattmccrackin Thank you for your suggestions. Personally I think that the overall costs for the equipments is way too high for their benefits. I could get a defender with 13 toughness ore more smaller ones for 4 mana which also allow me to draw additional cards. The cost is not justified by their utility in my opinion.

July 25, 2018 2:16 p.m.

Enral says... #15

Thoughts on Enlightened Tutor for your Assault Formation just incase Arcades got stolen/commander taxed out of the game?

+1

July 30, 2018 8:41 a.m.

kani7796 says... #16

hey buddy, great deck!

I don't have the card hyperlinks, because i'm a bit of a noob, but have you considered putting in crucible of worlds and the destroy all lands combo? with creatures of such little mana cost, you can really screw over your opponents mid-game and draw two lands to play a creature very easily; or have creatures on the field who tap for mana. lmk what you think!

July 30, 2018 9:54 a.m.

K4m4r0 says... #17

Enral Thank you for the +1 and the suggestion. I'm currently observing my games if I need more tutors to enhance my turns.

kani7796 Thanks bud! I have to admit that this is an awesome idea and I'd love to try it. Unfortunately we have a gentlemens agreement in our playgroup that we won't run a lot of land mass-/destroy. There are a lot of good mana rocks and dorks supporting Bant. You find some suggestions in the "Fast Mana Base" tab. They would support your theme a lot. If you ever try your strategy, please let me know how it performed.

July 30, 2018 10:55 a.m.

MyFETTish says... #18

Have you considered running boosts like Monstrous Growth, Overrun, Titanic Growth, or Might of Oaks? I know they are all green, and all your boosts seem to be white. I just figured for the cost, they may be a viable option. I know the first 2 are at sorcery speeds, and the last 2 are instants, but overrun maybe worth it especially if you have a lot of walls out.

August 1, 2018 2 p.m.

K4m4r0 says... #19

mattmccrackin thank you for your suggestions. Your comment gave me some ideas and I did some research for similar cards. Overrun along with Triumph of the Hordes could have a slot albeit their high cmc. I don't like the single creature buffs because I think that if I attack with a buff it should be lethal. In a multiplayer game 4 or 7 more strength on a single creature often isn't enough. They would fit better in a Voltron deck.

August 2, 2018 2:56 a.m.

KongMing says... #20

What about Chord of Calling to sneak Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive in on the declare attackers step? Or someone else's end step if you want to save the mana for the turn you go all out.

Aligned Hedron Network is a niche, global O-Ring that has the ability of not pissing off everyone at the table. Might be good if you have one or two Zoo players at the table that the low-power token decks won't mind you neutering.

You mentioned that there are a lot of token decks in your pod. For that, I recommend Suture Priest. It gives you a bit of lifegain from your creatures hitting the battlefield, and also gives you some defense against opposing token decks. Sure, they can make 40 1/1 Saprolings, as long as they don't mind losing 40 life for them. (:

August 2, 2018 12:46 p.m.

KongMing says... #21

One other card to consider is Blade of Selves. The Myriad token copies coming in to play should trigger Arcades' draw trigger, not bad if you want to draw some extra cards.

Conjurer's Closet can also re-trigger Arcades's draw and any other ETB effects, and flicker an attacker into a blocker at end step. Edit: On a second look, the closet might be weak for this deck. Very few of your creatures have ETB abilities that can be exploited, essentially all this does for you is give you an untap and a draw trigger at your end step.

August 2, 2018 12:51 p.m. Edited.

Since it's quite dependent on the commander, you may wish to consider Myth Unbound (C18).

August 4, 2018 1:33 p.m.

HobbyGamer007 says... #23

@UndeadSpider1990 nah, rather Command Beacon and maybe some form of land recursion. Then maybe also a Gaea's Cradle to go along with Crop Rotation, but cradle only if you run some dorks I'd say.

August 4, 2018 2:31 p.m.

K4m4r0 says... #24

KongMing Thank you for your suggestions. Aligned Hedron Network is really a niche card. Could be good against some decks in my group but would be a dead card otherwise. It really depends on your meta but it is not bad. I run Suture Priest in my Trostani deck and it didn't helped much yet. It hasn't prvoked the big life loss or token stop, yet. Mostly it got countered or destroyed right away when someone plays tokens. I'll consider Chord of Calling, but semms a bit too situational at the moment. Blade of Selves is expensive mana wise but could bring an opponent down in a swing. I will test it for sure! Conjurer's Closet reads good, especially with a defender who also has card draw like Wall of Blossoms or Axebane Guardian.

UndeadSpider1990 Thank you for your suggestion, but like HobbyGamer007 said, Myth Unbound isn't that good of a card and reads a lot better than it is. Sadly Command Beacon wasn't reprinted with C18, so it's still expensive and I wan't to keep this deck budget friendly.

August 6, 2018 12:28 p.m.

K4m4r0 says... #25

Hey Vlasiax, I initially choosed Guardians of Meletis because it is easy to cast and it's not bound to colours. Sure, Wall of Nets is a nice card and I try to fit it in since the beginning, but it could also be hard to cast because of the early. Sure it has 1 toughness more but don't get too carried away by it's ability becaus most of the time you are attacking with your walls. Also, I'm not quite sure if someone would use an artifact removal on this card, there should be more valuable targets out. Nonetheless a good suggestion and I'll keep it in mind! Can't wait for your other discoveries :)

August 9, 2018 11:34 a.m.

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