Suns_Champion Why not Drakuseth, Maw of Flames to hit everyone and get a lot of ?

Driemer84 Mind Stone is in, will be getting Arcane Signet in soon.

ScionsStillLive Drakuseth is in a weird spot because he doesn't have haste. First main phase, useless. Second main phase with Neheb mana, I have to wait another turn to use him. I'd rather draw cards.

Changes to be tested:

IN vs OUT

Thoughts?

I’ve been very happy with Rolling Earthquake, tectonic giant, and outpost siege.

I like the addition of the 2 cmc rocks. I really like sword of the animist, but I can see it being cut. It’s pretty slow ramp and is being made up for by your mana rocks.

The only two cuts I don’t like are Repercussion and Light Up the stage. Both of those have been great. Repercussion ends games and light up the stage is such efficient card advantage.

I also would consider Everflowing Chalice over Wayfarer’s Bauble. I think Chalice is better if you draw it later in the game and have extra mana to dump into it after an attack. I’ve been in plenty of situations where I’ve generated more mana than I could spend and Chalice would happily eat it up.

Is chandras ignition even good in this?

Ragtagturtle that’s a card I’ve looked at a couple of times myself. It tends to clear out a lot of my own creatures and then only generate 12 mana. I don’t want to cast it on Knollspine dragon or Kozilek because it will wipe out Neheb and then I won’t get the mana in my second main. I wonder if Mana Geyser would slot in their. It keeps your curve the same and can generate a win out of nowhere even when Neheb isn’t on board.

Driemer84 yup! I'm excited to have them!

Repurcussion is a sad cut, but I figured it takes so many things to go right for it to work and not, you know, kill me. Light up the stage I agree is good, but all my other draw either does something else or is better. Both will probably content for readmission in the near future.

I happened to have a Wayfarer’s Bauble and not a Chalice. Probably a good swap.

Ragtagturtle I'd say it is. Assuming I'm usually targeting Neheb, a 4 damage sweeper/burn spell is generally pretty solid. It gets better with equipment. The concerns Driemer84 are valid, as well as protection from red from Sword of F&I. I could see it being cut.

This may be controversial, but I’ve been considering cutting Cryptolith Fragment. I know it has nice synergy with Neheb, but its ramp is all post combat where we already thrive. The best time to cast Fragment is the turn before you cast Neheb so it can net you 3 mana after Neheb comes down. Getting use out of that 3 mana on that particular turn is very high variance. I’m thinking about switching it out for another 2 cmc rock. I don’t currently have Arcane Signet or Fellwar Stone in my 99 and your additions got me thinking about improving efficiencies. What are your thoughts?

Driemer84 personally, I think that's a bad move.

Granted, Fragment has 3 considerable downsides. 1) it comes in tapped, 2) it's 3cmc, and 3) it gives colorless mana. EDIT: wow it gives colored mana. Straight up never knew that. But the other two issues are all huge problems.

But for me the synergy with Neheb makes it worthy of include. 1) every bit of damage counts. 2) It still gets Neheb out a turn early. 3) it's nice to cast Neheb and gain three extra mana in the second main for free. With that you can cast and equip Boots, or equip a Sword of X&Y, or play a utility creature or small draw spell like Light up the Stage. 4) That value isn't limited to the turn you play Neheb, you'll keep getting 3 extra mana for free every turn. That can be the difference between a win or a lose. Remember 3 mana in an X spell is 9 damage total to your opponents. That's on top of the 1 you deal with Fragment. 5) The flip side represents another desperate way to close out a game.

So for me it is worth it. Synergy over efficiency. By all means, squeeze in more 2cmc rocks, but I wouldn't cut Fragment for one.

EVERYBODY SPREAD THE WORD OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR!!!!!!

That new description is a great idea. Everybody should read it.

seshiro_of_the_orochi This is what glory looks like... washing your hands!

I stole it from my good friend Daedalus19876, who did the same on his Yawgmoth deck: Message from Surgeon-General Yawgmoth Re: COVID-19. Check out his stuff!

I'll be sure to do that. I'm currently working from home and really need stuff to switch from work time to free time.

Very cool deck. I always love seeing mono-red decks that do something other than vomit a bunch of Goblin tokens onto the board.

Have you considered Sword of War and Peace instead of Sword of Fire and Ice? W&P typically does more damage than F&I, plus it can provide some much-needed lifegain.

Loving the new name right now Suns :)

Anyone have opinions on Memory Jar, Mizzium Mortars, and Mana Geyser? These are the three cards I’m trying to fit in at the moment.

Memory Jar seems like a decent replacement for Magus of the Wheel or Sandstone Oracle. Same mana investment as Magus overall and can be activated the same turn if needed. The downside is that it can’t attack.

Mizzium Mortars is just a great piece of removal. It doesn’t contribute to damaging players, but the flexibility of single target removal or sweeping up a good portion of opponent’s boards is appealing. Not sure what to cut to fit it in though.

Lastly, Mana Geyser has been suggested here, but I’d like to hear Neheb enthusiast’s opinions. I think Chandra’s Ignition would be a good cut for it since we aren’t really taking full advantage of it with an infect, lifelink, or deathtouch creature. If Neheb isn’t protected, you may not want to cast Ignition on a creature larger than Neheb or you would lose the mana trigger in the second main. If Neheb is protected with something like greaves or sword of f&i then it invalidates Neheb as a target for Ignition all together.

What are your thoughts?

P.S. Is anyone aware of a Neheb discord?

I was able to get a great game in last night in a 3 player pod. I didn't end up winning because I could never find a finisher, but I did get to see a lot of cards in the game and the deck got to do what it was supposed to. Since I had asked questions about card choices in my previous post I'll share what I learned last night.

Sandstone Oracle is coming out for Memory Jar. The floor on Oracle is too low for it's cmc. In most instances last night I would have only drawn 2 cards and even if it would have drawn me a couple more 7 mana is just very expensive. Memory Jar comes down for 2 less and can give me a look at 7 cards immediately if needed. I can also let it sit around a turn so I can activate it with all mana available if I don't have any bonus coming from Neheb.

As nice as Mizzium Mortars is, I don't think it's necessary even though the single target mode would be nice. All of the other sweepers like Rolling Earthquake, Flamebreak, Breath of Darigaaz, and Blasphemous Act are probably enough. Mortars is better suited for a deck like Torbran where he can ramp it up to 6.

Lastly, Mana Geyser still deserves a home in here somehwere, I just haven't found out where yet. I cast Chandra's Ignition last night which ended up catching a Dovin's Veto, but had it resolved would have cleaned up a good chuck of the board given me 8 mana in my second main. I'm still not sure if Ignition is good enough, but last night's game let it live to see another day.

harbingerofduh I had Sword of W&P in here once. Card draw > Lifegain.

Driemer84 Memory Jar seems like a good addition. Might pick one up. Mizzium Mortars doesn't seem necessary, I think I'd rather run Hour of Devastation. I guess I live in a meta where Sandstone Oracle is an easy draw 6 most games. Mana Geyser is a great card, and is part of the Wheel/Underworld Breach combo, so I've been looking to add one. Might take out a copy spell. Chandra's Ignition is a so-so card, and it's been debated before. I might replace it sometime, it's not a hill I'd die on, but usually it's pretty good, so it stays.

Cool thanks for the help I will definitely look at your deck to make changes to mine.

Hey, I love Neheb as well, and a card that I found that worked wonders for me is Chandra, Acolyte of Flame. It can put loyalty counters on both Chandras(of course I run the other one) can make some mana with the elementals, and can bring back most your key spells. Consider it, I really love it.

Also, this is my list if you guys want to check it out. Can you give me some feedback?

https://deckstats.net/decks/146412/1519494-neheb-the-eternal-primer-

In my Opinion , this deck is looking good. It is high synergy, has good win-cons, combos, and value-makers. The ramp is insane for a mono-red deck, and the message is great.There are a few suggestions I can give though. First of all, the OG burn spell, Lightning Bolt. With the ability to burn your opponents for 3 damage, and only costing , it is already a really strong card. With Neheb’s second ability, you will get back. Second, Viashino Heretic. It can be used as efficient Removal for artifacts, while still being able to burn your opponents for damage. This will trigger Neheb’s second ability, once again giving you mana back equal to the destroyed artifact’s cmc. Next is Angrath's Marauders. It may seem costly, with a cmc of , but it will be easy to get out by the looks of your ramp and Neheb’s second ability. Lastly for now is Obsidian Fireheart. This will supply a constant burn and with Neheb, a constant flow of mana. If more suggestions needed, you can ask me on my page, or on this page:

Blasphemous Act seems like a bordwipe that you don’t need that much, there are much better wipes that can work better with Neheb, such as Bonfire of the Damned.

Yarok not OP, but I have some thoughts on those cards as I’ve been messing around with a list based on this one for quite awhile.

Lightning Bolt isn’t terrible, but I think cards that impact the board as well as damage are more useful. Efficiency is definitely important, and dark ritual is tough to beat, but because Neheb doesn’t come down until you have 5 mana available, I think it’s better to play more powerful effects like Flamebreak, Rolling Earthquake, etc. If you were to include lightning bolt, what would you cut and why do you think bolt would fill that spot better?

I’ve tries Viashino Heretic several times, but he was slow and didn’t always have a profitable target. He also tends to get swept up from a lot of the damage dealers we run.

Angrath’s Marauders is definitely powerful, but their cmc almost always dictates that they will come down second main. That telegraphs something nasty will potentially come the next turn and gives 3 players time to react to it.

Lastly, Obsidian Fireheart’s counters make the lands trigger during the land’s controller’s upkeep, not the Fireheart’s controller upkeep, so you won’t see any of that damage returned as mana on your turn.