Hjaltrohir says... #2
28 lands is WAY too much, even for a control deck. I would cut the 2 Caves of Koilos. Also, Crux of Fate is really good with Dragonlord Ojutai and as an extra wrath, maybe instead of a couple copies of End Hostilities. I also recommend another copy of Elspeth, Sun's Champion or even better, a copy of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Finally, I recommend playing either Thoughtseize or Disdainful Stroke in the main.
March 11, 2015 2:50 a.m.
slimingmyway says... #3
Really awesome and well-written suggestions, blackmarker90. Thank you! Will definitely be making the appropriate adjustments. I'll see how the mana base is running in playtest before committing, but I do like Nullify with the new meta. Crux of Fate for Perilous Vault also makes my life easy since I already have the Cruxes.
Good to know on the lands awesomeguy37. I'll cut it down to 26. And with +2 vote on the Ugin, including him will be a must. Thanks for the input!
March 11, 2015 3:07 a.m.
blackmarker90 says... #4
Definitely as a 1-of main and with the spot adding the second Elspeth to the main leaves you another Ugin out of the side.
I'm not sure how I feel about Narset in this particular build, I guess to use her +1 as her -2 doesn't really help you in the way you want it to. And her ult is usually just a scoop by the opponent.
March 11, 2015 3:15 a.m.
corpse_machine says... #5
id run another pearl lake ancient. maybe look at a nyx fleece ram or a silumgar as well.
March 11, 2015 3:35 a.m.
Chainer_the_Dementia_Master says... #6
Regardless of the way you look at it, Elspeth, Sun's Champion has been one of the most consistent win conditions in standard since she was released. I would run 2. Any more, and you draw her when you don't need her, and any less, you might see her too late, and end up drawing the round.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is a controversial one, so I'll explain my feelings on it. It's really good against midrange based strategies after stabilization. You Crux of Fate/End Hostilities, drop Ashiok and take the rest of their threats. It's also decent in the control mirror, where you just drop it as early as possible and try to hit as much of their tech as you can. The aggro match is a completely different story. They just ignore it and smash you in the face as fast as they can.
As far as lands, I don't think 28 is too many, but I also have a history of not hitting land drops. It really depends on how consistent you tend to hit yours, and how your optimal plays curve out. My deck can't stand missing the first 6-7 land drops, but it really depends on your card selection that you run.
Overall looks like a solid build though. diverse win cons, and enough control to get them out and keep them there. +1
March 11, 2015 3:37 a.m.
Run Ashiok. (S)he's a huge threat that opponents are forced to deal with somehow, at the very least getting a Downfall out of their hand. Plus if you can protect Ashiok you can just start throwing threats on the board that your opponents will have to deal with. Starting at a virtual five loyalty on turn three means that you'll be able to generate blockers/attackers as early as turn four, if you feel the need to do so. Plus using the -X to get a Hornet Queen out against Whip decks is just the bets feeling ever.
You can move the Archangel to the sideboard, and drop the Pearl Lake Ancient entirely.
March 11, 2015 3:41 a.m.
magicalhobbits says... #8
i like Perilous Vault i cant believe i over looked that, please check my deck out and see what i could do to improve Banting Dragon Control
March 11, 2015 4:55 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #9
I would cut one End Hostilities for a Crux of Fate. It can be better when you have an Ojutai on the board. Also, another Elspeth would be nice. Stain the Mind is a really good sideboard card, too.
March 11, 2015 5:34 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #10
- No. Usually, control decks run four Dig Through Time and 2-3 Jace's Ingenuity. Crux of Fate was fairly present in the last few weeks but it'll lose a lot of power when DTK comes in. I would run at least three Silence the Belivers and three End Hostilites in Esper Control. A one-of or two-of Perilous vault does not hurt.
- Silumgar, the Drifting Death. Easily. Has hexproof, seven toughness survives even two Anger of the Gods and it flys. There's hardly anthing you can do against this card. Pearl Lake Ancient is fantatsic because you can just attack, take seven mana into the pool, take three tapped lands into your hand and play him again. You can't do that for long, though. Also, Ashiok is a brutally amazing finisher.
- Ashiok is a bomb. Once you've stolen and abused an opponent's Goblin Rabblemaster on an empty board, you'll just pray that they reprint him soon. Any UBX Deck that does not run him should question their choices.
- Probably Nyx-Fleece Ram and Radiant Fountain with Pearl Lake Ancient. In addition to that, sideboard Jorubai Murk Lurker!
Something else: 28 land is a bit heavy. Cut it to 26, that should do the trick. I would remove Elspeth, too, I'd rather run Ugin or none of both.
Now, that's it for now. Nice deck! I'd enjoy playing this.
March 11, 2015 6:55 a.m.
GeeksterPlays says... #11
1) No. What you have is a very strong, resiliant base for UBx control that is going to need something spectacular printed to replace anything in it.
2) Control in general, right now, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Pearl Lake Ancient with Silumgar, the Drifting Death as backup.
Reasoning;
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon - once he's on the field you can save your counter/kill/exile spells for the bigger threats, anything small Ugin can just kill off. His "ultimate" is great for refilling your hand, and depending on what you hit, can set up your other win conditions to work side by side (countless times I've hit a Silumgar and Liliana Vess in one shot from Ugin, very satisfying and your opponent just loses all hope!)
Pearl Lake Ancient - virtually impossible for an opponent to remove permanently. His bouncing land ability can be great for re-using Temples for Scry or Lifegain lands to keep you healthy.
Silumgar, the Drifting Death - again, so hard for an opponent to remove. Attack and he'll remove almost all tokens your opponent may have, survives "burn everything" cards like Anger of the Gods easily.
The main thing is not to play these 3 before their time; Ugin, not until you can stop a Hero's Downfall on that same turn. Pearl Lake Ancient, not until you can afford to bounce 3 land AND re-play him out at the end of the opponent's next turn. Silumgar, you can probably take the risk, though be wary of things like Crackling Doom, try to figure out what your opponent is likely to have based on their colours/tribe/previous experience playing them.
3) I LOVE Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. Nothing beats a mana-starved opponent exiling the top 3 card and seeing 2 land in there, or a creatureless field seeing their "end game" disappear into the aether only to be brought back against them the next turn. Truthfully though, very rarely do I every -X, because the -10 ability is great for sealing their doom, especially when combined with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon -10 as well; they end up with no hand, you end up with a full hand AND possibly one of your end-game parts going into play for free. Again, it's usually a "lose all hope" sort of situation.
4) Your mana base should support it; I'd try and fit 3 Radiant Fountain as 2 life is no small amount to gain, especially for a deck running Fetches to fix it's mana base. The Nyx-Fleece Ram might be good in some matchups (against aggro, for example, as it blocks well too) but against most decks personally I'd rather have more counter/kill/remove than go up by 1 life.
Looking at your current list, if it was my deck I know I'd like to;
Lose 1x Resolute Archangel and add 1x Liliana Vess - her -2 tutor can fetch your end-game or that much-needed boardwipe. Her +1 keeps your opponents from having so many options, and if they're playing a creature-heavy deck, her ultimate can be devastating.
Lose 1x Dragonlord Ojutai and add 1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon - for reasons state above, plus in control you should really only need 1 of each of your win conditions.
Sideboard the 2x Silence the Believers and add in 2x Disdainful Stroke. Possibly the best counterspell in Standard right now, only 2 mana to counter the thing that your opponent considers to be their decks "top threat" is fantastic.
I have a U/B Control that I am strongly considering taking to Esper, if you want to check it out it's here Ancient Control
March 11, 2015 8:44 a.m.
blackmarker90 says... #12
Could probably cut a Thoughtseize for a third lurker, I kind of like Nyx-Fleece Ram over the lurker as you don't have to leave mana up to activate, and it has a larger rear against red.
March 11, 2015 2:05 p.m.
I would think about SB'ing Perilous Vault. I know it is kind of contradictory to what you have going on here but until we understand the meta better, and see how the indestructible creatures (Gods and whatnot) effect the game, having an exile all card is great.
March 11, 2015 5:03 p.m.
Chainer_the_Dementia_Master says... #14
I would say that your Nyx-Fleece Rams + the 2 Jorubai Murk Lurkers is more than enough life gain for game 2. I'd even consider cutting the lurker for other spots.
Also, Gainsay is strictly worse than most other counterspells in this format. I'd put either a 3rd Negate, or a Neutralizing Blast in it's place.
I'm also going to touch on this one because even though I'm pretty sure nobody's touched on it, it's given me so many blowouts, AEtherspouts... it's an amazing 1 of for the deck. I've hit it turn 5 after my opponent doesn't think I have a wipe in hand. They try to seal the game too quickly, and I decimate their board state at instant speed. Also gets around Hexproof and indestructible.
March 11, 2015 7:02 p.m.
slimingmyway says... #15
Totally see what you're saying, blackmarker90. Also hard to leave up for Murk Lurker in a mana-tight 3-color. Pulled for the Ram. Yanked the Gainsay to plop in a final Fleece.
I agree completely MindEcho. I'll be playtesting with and without the Perilous so I'm ready for either meta and know how to work them around my win-cons.
With meta sharply steering away from midrange and shifting into aggression (mono red) in my area, I also opted to remove the Ashiok in light of Drown in Sorrows for now. As the meta changes, I'll adjust the sideboard accordingly.
March 12, 2015 2:04 a.m.
GeeksterPlays says... #16
Just as a side note, the Jorubai Murk Lurker can be handy in control vs. control matchups. I got my butt handed to me by another U/B control deck in game 3 that sided in 4 of them and got 2 of them out on T3 and T4. I managed to get rid of them eventually with a Crux of Fate but the damage was done, I was at <10 life and he was at >30. Fate sealed!
March 13, 2015 5:29 a.m.
blackmarker90 says... #17
It's what the Nyx-Fleece Ram are for, albeit it isn't as much life gain, but there is still just enough to be worthwhile.
blackmarker90 says... #1
Cut the Caves of Koilos add in an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and another Elspeth, Sun's Champion. 26 land is plenty to make sure you hit what you want when you want it.
Cut the Perilous Vaults as they totally detract from sticking Your wincon, especially because your wincons are 5 & 6 mana respectively. Add 2 Crux of Fate in their place.
Cut the Angel and Pearl Lake. And replace them with Negates, and if you want to be super greedy with your Mana Nullify, the meta is shifting towards creatures again and Nullify just poops on every creature deck ever.
I find Ashiok and a Liliana Vess out of the board to be great against slower midrange decks. People are scared of Ashiok, so he will eat removal 9/10 of the time which lets you keep other stuff alive.
Best way to gain life is Sheep Nyx-Fleece Ram.
Other than the items I mentioned your list looks pretty solid.
March 11, 2015 2:42 a.m.