I_TappedWrong says... #2
yeah I get that, well then in any case this combo can only occur in edh no other game formats, clearly. yes, prossh does trigger but infinite idk every time prossh dies yes his CMC is changed when casting him from the command zone, but not when you exile him with food chain... there has to be a stopping point right? or a correct way to exile him and the tokens.
January 23, 2015 1:56 a.m.
Ok then chew on this nugget
406.2. To exile an object is to put it in the exile zone from whatever zone its currently in. An exiled card is a card that's been put in the exile zone.
Food chain "gatherer" text.
Exile a creature you control: Add X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the exiled creature's converted mana cost plus one. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells.
Wait "an exiled card is a card that has been put in the exile zone"? Well now food chain said "add X mana to your mana pool where X is the EXILED creature's converted mana cost plus 1."
So yet again no exile NO MANA
January 23, 2015 1:57 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
You're conflating costs with effects. They're not the same.
A cost does not depend on anything external happening. Either you activate the ability and pay its cost or you don't. There's no middle ground. Incomplete/partial payments are not allowed. However, 117.11 states that replacement effects that modify how one of the payment actions is taken do not change the fact that the cost was paid.
117.11 creates a condition that allows costs to be considered paid even if a replacement effect changed how or if one of the payment actions could be performed as prescribed. Triggered abilities and linked abilities, which have no such condition, don't get to trigger or function if the event on which they depend doesn't happen.
Think of it this way: the game cares whether you began or attempted the action that the cost prescribes. It doesn't care about replacement effects that change whether the action was executed as prescribed.
Now, nobody here is denying that Prossh, Skyraider of Kher is not exiled. What you're missing, Kozelek, is that the game doesn't care whether Prossh, Skyraider of Kher gets exiled or not.
January 23, 2015 2:17 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
January 23, 2015 2:41 a.m.
AetherOcean says... #6
Hey guys. Let me help to clear up some of what seems to be a misunderstanding as to how the Food Chain combo works.
First off Prossh, Skyraider of Kher drops 6 0/1 token creatures BEFORE he hits the table, because it's a "when cast" ability.
Secondly, when you sack Prossh, Skyraider of Kher you will always sack him back to the command zone. The regrowth here is for pulling win cons and useful cards back at a low cost. (Or free for a win if you are using Eternal Witness)
Now at this point Food Chain has given you 7 mana in a single chosen color. Which means you need to sack 2 tokens to get the other colors, leaving 4 tokens behind the first cast.
Now you have the mana to recast, plus some extra. The token ability is affected by the AMOUNT SPENT to cast, and not the CMC. So everytime you cast him, he gives you enough tokens to keep sacking and casting him while having more and more leftover mana and tokens, as often as you please.
January 23, 2015 6:36 p.m.
AetherOcean says... #7
@ Kozelek I love the name btw! Eldrazi <3. Anyhow, Ashnod's Altar was once in the deck running along with other infinites. Time and time again, I would have it in play or in my hand and no use for it because I was already winning another way. I can't stand looking at dead cards in my hand. So when those other artifacts went, so did Ashnod's Altar.
Phyrexian Altar was considered in the early draft stages, but didn't make the cut for similar reasons. I do like that Phyrexian Altar offers an infinite in any color. However, to run it effectively I'd have to focus too much on combos only. This deck is about working together with other ways of winning effectively if Plan A fails. That and not having to worry about artifact removal is nice.
Thanks for the suggestions and all the responses!
January 23, 2015 6:51 p.m.
AetherOcean says... #8
@Samj1988 I agree that Food Chain is overplayed. However, it's overplayed for a reason. I made this deck to compete with decks that are worth 1-2k+ on a budget of under $500. And this was the most effective combo to utilize fast wins with loads of deck synergy using more than combos with Prossh, Skyraider of Kher as a general. Also, it's nice to see you again here. Thanks for joining in!
@Epochalyptik Thanks for being here to respond while I was away! Much appreciated! You have defended my honor good sir and I salute you.
January 23, 2015 7:02 p.m.
I_TappedWrong says... #9
i agree with you... but have you thought about using Vicious Shadows? i got a chance to use it in my prossh deck today and totally layed waist to my enemies... its a little price but make the card drawing decks pay dearly.
January 23, 2015 8:04 p.m.
AetherOcean says... #10
@Samj1988 I did consider Vicious Shadows when I first built the deck. It's a great card with Prossh, Skyraider of Kher no doubt. But the mana cost is what killed it for me. I'f I'm going to spend 7 mana, I want that card to stick around or win me the game. In my playgroup, I'd never get to use it unless I changed my deck a bit from how it's currently built.
Epochalyptik says... #1
"Dies" abilities trigger when a card moves from the battlefield to the graveyard. IF the trigger event doesn't occur, the ability can't trigger.
This is fundamentally different from an activated ability, which has an activation cost that you pay as part of the activation process. 117.11 details the specific interaction between costs and replacement effects. It doesn't change the fact that replacement effects can still prevent triggered abilities from triggering if they apply in a way that means the trigger event doesn't occur.
January 23, 2015 1:46 a.m.