Orzhov Midrange **1st place FNM**

Standard* sharang3

SCORE: 11 | 16 COMMENTS | 2412 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


Extra_Krispyyy says... #1

I would take Orzhov Charm out for another Devour Flesh .

November 24, 2013 1:15 p.m.

sharang3 says... #2

Master of Waves , a very common card in my meta, blanks Devour Flesh . It's nice to have a piece of removal that'll kill Master of Waves, Nightveil Specters, pretty much anything, really. I don't run Doom Blade in case of the mirror, so it's nice to have a piece of removal that'll hit anything.

November 24, 2013 1:58 p.m.

Extra_Krispyyy says... #3

Why not run Ultimate Price instead? it solves a lot of problems for me..

November 24, 2013 2:09 p.m.

sharang3 says... #4

Great idea. will do

November 24, 2013 5:02 p.m.

nestalim says... #5

The list is a bit weak.

First of all, there's too much random card, like Sin collector or Overlords.

Sin Collector is NOT a random card, you want it x3 or x4, because it's value decreases passed turn 3. Drawing it T5 is a dead draw.

Overlords is weak. Turn 7 is a bit greddy for every deck in the Meta, also when his 187 is not that strong, because a lot of deck currently plays ratched bomb SD. Also, you want to lock de game earlier.

Renounce the guild is clearly a bad card in a Meta dominated by Devotion deck, this card is totally dead agains't Mono B, Mono U and Colossal Gruul. You will maybe hit a nightveil specter, but this is not a fair trade.

Pharika's Cure MD is not viable, also getting 2 Black mana turn 2 with 5 taplands, 3 muta and 1 Nykthos will be a pain.

I will say the same for ratchet bomb, MD it's not a good idea.

So, my advice :

-1 Overlords-2 pharika's-1 ratched bomb-1 Merciless eviction : you are very strong in the late game, Devotion to Black is with esper the strongest late game deck in the Meta. Merciless will hit you more than any deck currently.-1 renounce the guild

+1 Desecration Demon : Demon is the best drop 4 in the format. You want it.+2 Sin collector : This card will make you win a lot vs control, you want it ASAP.+1-2 thoughtseize : same than Sin collector, you want it T1, the card decrease value each turn.+2 Underworld connections : you need to draw more cards, and Underworld is good at it. Also it will be nice with your Nykthos, and provide devotion to Erebos and Gary.+1 Elspeth : You don't side Elspeth. You play it. It's one of the best kill in the format.

Also, your mana base is weak. 9 White, and you need to have to of them turn 5. It will be really hard to do so, you can easily draw one godless, 2 swamp and a mutavault. 2 more plains and 2 less swamp will be a good deal.

Nightveil Specter x1 is not good, you want 4 of them or you don't want it. With 5 taplands, 4 incolore, and if you follow my advice, 2 plains, you will never be able to land it turn 3, so I will advice you to put it out for another Lifebane, or either cards that I suggest.

I would suggest another cards for the side, but first, give me a feedback on what you think about the change I'll proceed on your deck.

PS : I played a lot Orzhov midrange, but I switched to Devotion to Black. Here is my old list : http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/orzhov-midrange-17-10-13-4/

Really different than yours, wich is more a Devotion to Black splash White, wich is a good idea.

November 25, 2013 1:02 a.m.

sharang3 says... #6

Nestalim:

As for the list being weak, I suspect perhaps you haven't playtested it. I'm consistently putting up 3-1s for the last 3 weeks at FNMs, against tier-1 decks in the format. Give it a go before you knock it; in a lot of games the scrylands give you the consistency you really need. It's often a skin-of-the-teeth situation but I reliably get 2 white by turn 5 when i draw Obzedat; however, 3 black mana by turn 3 with Nightveil Specter is much less reliable. It's in as a random one-of, so that I can afford to lose.

As for the 1-of Sin Collector; between Lifebane Zombie, Thoughtseize, and Sin Collector, I have six chances to peek at my opponent's hand. This information is almost never dead; however, sometimes I would like to get some card advantage while I'm at it. To this end, Sin Collector hits Esper; and with Whip, one-ofs with 187s like the Sin Collector often have extra value. I might consider going up to 2 of them, but I'd often much rather resolve an extra Underworld Connections which I agree is something I need more than 2 of. Desecration Demon, while a great 4 drop, is terrible in certain matchups; mostly aggro ones as well as the mirror. This is why I, and many other recent monoblack devotion decks, have cut down to 3.

Abhorrent Overlord has, thus far, been a win-more card. However, there have been matches where he turns around games where I'm going to lose due to lack of board presence. As of now, he still seems a viable one-of, but one of the weaker cards in the deck.

Your suggestions to remove Pharika's, Ratchet Bomb, and Eviction, on the assumption that my 'late game' is strong, seem ill-advised. Without the removal package, which I've tuned for two months against my meta (plenty of monoblue and monored), there will be no late game. Eviction is a powerful spell that can free up several detention spheres against esper, wipe an opposing Specter + Demon + Erebos, kill Gods, etc. The argument it hurts me more than the opponent is the same argument that says 'Wrath of God is bad because it kills both player's creatures.'

Bearing your suggestions in mind, I have made the following changes:
-1 Abhorrent Overlord
-1 Nightveil Specter
+1 underworld connections
+1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

November 25, 2013 3:23 p.m.

nestalim says... #7

You're not forced to do every change I'll Do, but just by adding Eslpeth and Underworld, and removing Nightveil and Overlord you really make your deck stronger.

Demon is terrible agains't RDW, and Mono B can lock down it. But Alms beast won't be better because we're talking about two decks wich you can't win a race. And giving couple Hp to Mono B wich will just take the game by unblocking Thassa and a lot of CA with Bident is clearly not a good choice.

Pharika's is not bad, it's just worst than a doom blade or an Ultimate choice. Why should I plan for a removal when there's better in the format ?

It's the same for Sin collector. His body is pretty weak and he's not a threat for anyone. When he hits the board, he will make laugh Mono U, Mono B, Rdw and Gruul. Ok, he's agains't Esper, still you will draw him few times, because you have one of him. And maybe you will draw him turn 7.

Lifebane, on the other hand, hits mirror, BRW, Blood Baron's Esper (pretty hard, but you have your thoughtzeise to scout the hand), Grull, Selesnya... He's unblockable to nearly a large quentity of deck, and will take down any PW easier than a Demon.

Ok, Eviction is a choice. But don't compare it to wrath. Wrath won't it you so much when you're playing modern UWR and the only beast you have is snapcaster mage. Here you will beat all of you beast and if you need to clean the board turn 6 agains't aggro, damn you'll been already dead !Most of time 6turn board removal has been hated because, well, there's too late. Also, it's another random card wich can be heavy in the hand Turn 0 or never come when you need it.

It's not about the field or the Meta. It's about math. You won't your deck as reliable and flexible as possible, you want it resilient. You want to be sure that you'll have a high % to draw the card you want at the good moment.

It's for that than every Mono B deck plays a playset of thoughtseize, 4 Demon, 4 Connections. Because on G1 they want their deck being reliable and resilient as possible because you don't know what you will facing off.

The incredible strenght of Mono B is that he can face any deck G1 and will have few bad MU, ie Mono U and RdW. But the side is an explosion, you will have an answer of every threat in the format. Pharika's, Duress, Sin Collector, Dark Betrayal, Blood Baron.. The idea of the White splash is kinda good but you must focus on what will lead to the win or not.

November 25, 2013 4:46 p.m.

sharang3 says... #8

I've experimented with Elspeth today. My conclusion is that often, Elspeth is simply a weaker Abhorrent Overlord. I don't need the destroy effect with a 6/6 body accompanied by chump blockers, it adds to my black devotion, and unlike elspeth, Abhorrent Overlord will often win the game the turn after it hits the table.

As for a fourth Desecration Demon: Again, I'm trying to emphasize that there are often games where I don't want to see Desecration Demons. I'm not trying to replace it with Alms Beast at all; I don't know where that suggestion came from. I'd rather leave it at 3 copies as is.

Pharika's Cure, on the other hand, hits a lot of the stuff I need Doom Blade to hit while having game in the Monoblack matchup where Pack Rat and Mutavault is the most important card to have on the board. In the matches where I need a Doom Blade, I'd often be very happy with a doom blade attached to two life.

I understand your argument regarding consistency, however, that's where redundancy (Multiple removal spells that do the same or slightly different things), card draw (I agree that I need a third Underworld Connections), and card filtering (Scrylands and mana-thinning via Liliana's +1) come in. I can often dig deep enough to pull a 1-of when I need it.

In short, I've realized, thanks to your suggestions, that I have certain weak 1-ofs in my deck (-1 Nightveil Specter) and I could emphasize consistency more (+1 Underworld Connections). There are certain somewhat unconventional choices in my decklist; and suggestions such as yours help me to notice when a card may or may not be a 'pet card'; so I can test whether or not they belong in my deck.

November 25, 2013 6:38 p.m.

nestalim says... #9

If you don't like Elspeth so be it, she doesn't fill in every deck.

I'm still not convinced by Overlord due to his high mana cost, but Nykthos can remedy to that.

How did you help to win the deck ? Due to his body who finish your opponent the next turn ? the mass token wich will be great blocker ?

You can try another Grey merchant if it's just a question of sustain, you certainly draw him a lot and find his drain life very powerful.

Do you play on Cockatrice ? if so, I'd like to play agains't your list to watch how it works.

November 26, 2013 3:09 a.m.

sharang3 says... #10

I play on Virtual Playtable; I thought cockatrice got scrapped by WotC after the issue with them using Supreme Verdict's image on their website. I wouldn't mind playing a game.

Overlord wins immediately because he usually contributes 8 to 10 power, which is hard to deal with, and if he dies I still have 2-4 power in the air which can usually break a stall. I don't need another gray merchant in this spot because Obzedats often function as Gray Merchants 3 and 4, while still being 5/5 beaters, although another Gary in Overlord's slot may be worth a shot. When I tested with Elspeth, I was finding that I didn't have that same impact- I was paying similar amounts of mana for similar amounts of tokens, but without flying, out of color for devotion, and without a 6/6 body.

I would like to test against you by all means

November 26, 2013 1:44 p.m.

nestalim says... #11

http://www.woogerworks.com/

Here's the new website for Cocka.

No problem for testing, you will find me easily on Cockatrice, it's Nestalim too.

November 26, 2013 2:29 p.m.

Stein_ says... #12

Not bad! +1 come check out my Orzhov! http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/revelation-bw-control/

November 27, 2013 12:50 p.m.

There are plenty of 1 of's and other random cards in there that don't seem to fit. Are you going for devotion or not? You also have plenty of cards that are sideboard worthy in the mainboard. Sin Collector is great, but is more of a sideboard card, same with eviction. I'd suggest one more Whip of Erebos and 4 of's of mainboard removal.

November 27, 2013 1:19 p.m.

You my friend, know Black/White. +1 Well Done.

December 11, 2013 7:04 p.m.

jedrzejmk says... #15

Having 3 Pack Rat s and full set of Mutavault s wouldn't it be better to take out Read the Bones and add one more Underworld Connections ?

December 12, 2013 6:10 a.m.

bretters says... #16

Sweet deck

September 1, 2014 2:21 a.m.

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