thecrimsonchin8 says... #2
Maybe a 3rd Blind Obedience? :-P Not to harp on that one, but Blind Obedience is an amazing card and, even if you have more than one, represents a very hard to remove extort trigger.
March 20, 2013 9:25 p.m.
I have been playing this deck, and I must say it has been proving sooo... inconsistent. I mean I love the idea of trying to be budget competitive, but something here needs to be fine tuned bad. the deck moves kinda slow anyway, so have you thought of adding some more gates? Like the orzhov ones? We need something to help the mana curve here. I can't tell you how many games I was sitting on cards with nothing to cast.
Mana sometimes gets out slow especially if you are not hitting the colors you need. Tri-color decks running mainly basics is hard enough. I feel maybe twenty two would help here a tad. Like I said I will take this list and think it over and see what I can come up with to make it run smoother. Because right now in my meta this would be stomped.
March 21, 2013 10:19 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #4
@ thecrimsonchin8 -- The addition of a third Blind Obedience depends solely on budget -- the CSI link on the page isn't accounting for two currently in the deck, so I am already a little over. I would like to given the budget opportunity.
@ Zeekbot -- I've been wanting to drop something for another land, but I'm unsure of what to drop. The deck has been fairing relatively well in my meta (given that none of my friends run decks costing more than $1-200). I appreciate any suggestions you have! I have been toying with the balance between control, lands, extort, and cipher, and know it still needs work.
March 21, 2013 4:37 p.m.
hawgdriver says... #5
MOAR flashback!
Gives the flexibility on mana-floods to make something out of all the mana.
In particular, Lingering Souls, Feeling of Dread, and Think Twice.
I agree about running more Blind Obedience, budget willing. So hard to remove. Hardly anyone runs enchantment removal, and no one wants to use an O ring or D sphere on blind obedience. OTOH, these extort creatures don't stick long against most decks. I'd shift toward 2 cmc (meaning that your extort comes from Blind Obedience, Syndic of Tithes, and Basilica Screecher). Think about the Mentor of the Meek and Immortal Servitude -- game changer combo.
Cipher is awesome with extort, but even invisible stalker is prone to Supreme Verdict, Mutilate, and Bonfire of the Damned. Having said that, imo he is a must at 4 copies if you even want to run Hands of Binding. Plus, he fits nicely with the 2 cmc immortal servitude.
The way I see it, this deck wins against aggro by chumping and extorting to slow death by papercuts, and wins against control by not ever posing enough of a threat to warrant their Dissipates--while being somewhat faster than a non-Jace'd mill deck. BTW is there a non-sb answer for Jace? Perhaps the unblockables.
Anyhoo, hope you appreciate the comments and don't mind my interest in your concept.
March 21, 2013 6:38 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #6
@ hawgdriver -- I'm still working with adding Lingering Souls, and I seem to be slowly moving towards an avg CMC of 2.
Thrull Parasite and unblockables are the answers for Jace and other PWs, and I could always bounce it if needed.
I don't mind the comments at all - I appreciate them, and hope that they make this deck much better!
March 21, 2013 6:48 p.m.
hawgdriver says... #7
Yup. Didn't make the connection with Thrull and PWs. Nice.
March 21, 2013 6:53 p.m.
hawgdriver says... #9
Depending on your success against your meta on Tormented Soul staying on the board w/ a cipher and/or Regent---yes.
March 21, 2013 6:59 p.m.
I really didn't understand the Lingering Souls's thing, 4 * 1/1 for 5 mana doesn't seem to be a good move, since it would only be used for blocking, but at a cost that can't be paid at early game. Is there anything that I can't see?
How is it going in early game, I mean, to defend itself.
This deck game "inspiration" to build an "unblockable deck" with ciphers, have you ever though on moving away from extortion for that?
March 22, 2013 6:39 p.m.
+1 on this deck friend. I am def. keeping up with it. Would love to make it myself. I don't play locally in stores, I am a MTGO'er.. I'm wondering how this will stack up on there.
Anyway, will be keeping up w/ the deck.. probably will make it sooner rather than later lol
March 22, 2013 10:22 p.m.
Not bad, this could just be personal tastes, but I'm not a fan of Shadow Slice in the end, you're really only getting +3/+0 and that's if you don't get blocked. I see why you would use it here, but why not something that increases toughness and power consistently in case an opponent finds a way across your evasion? Way of the Thief I know this still isn't the most amazing alternative, but with guildgates in your deck, it could make other creatures unblock able as well
March 23, 2013 3:04 a.m.
+1 fabulous deck. Xathrid Gorgon Could be a good Creature in this deck. I like Necropolis Regent better, but with the extra black you could definitely stall the board out with it.
March 23, 2013 3:50 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #15
Thanks for all of the feedback everyone! I will try to respond to all of your comments below, but please speak up if I miss something! Don't forget to +1 either! :)
@ hawgdriver -- I've changed the deck list to include Lingering Souls in place of Tormented Soul .
@ dantebz -- Lingering Souls is good in this deck because not only does it provide 2 creatures with evasion, but it also provides to extort triggers. It may not be the best early game for this card, but can be very useful mid-game with Crypt Ghast out to provide mana. I wanted this deck to combine the cipher and extort mechanics, so I will not be dropping the extort in this deck. Thank you for the +1!
@ bcoots -- Thanks! I'd appreciate it if you let me know how it fairs on MTGO.
@ otori1987 -- To be honest, I don't love Shadow Slice either. But, as of now it's one of the better cipher cards printed which goes with the idea of combining the two mechanics. If I were to take it out, it would be for another cipher card to keep with the theme.
@ akelm88 -- Thanks! Xathrid Gorgon is an interesting idea, but it doesn't do too much with respect to the win conditions in the deck. Necropolis Regent boosts my unblockable Invisible Stalker s so that they become even more potent (and useful).
March 23, 2013 10:51 a.m.
hawgdriver says... #16
How about a copy or two of Dark Favor for the stalker? Necropolis Regent seems a bit slow. I've been able to keep up with almost every deck I face, but this build just needs a little more punch. Maybe you get it with regent? I'd replace one copy of Hands of Binding I guess. Actually, just noticed you have 3x invisible stalker rather than 4... Maybe Hands of Binding should stay then . . for the cipher/extort on a Basilica Screecher . (you might only want to run dark favor with 4x stalker.)
I've tried running Saving Grasp
and I like it. But that's me on my flashback/extort kick.
March 23, 2013 4:04 p.m.
Pretty weird. I main a mill deck and a cipher/extort deck, and both are decks you 'perfect'.
I'd say that Shadow Slice is a very expensive card, where the goal of this deck seems to control more than deal damage. For one mana less, you might want to consider Mental Vapors , limiting your opponent's possibilities, or Midnight Recovery , bringing back your blockers. Especially with a High Priest of Penance , which gives awesome board control and makes for a very scary blocker.
March 24, 2013 8:48 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #18
@ hawgdriver -- Not sure if I like Saving Grasp , but it's worth a try! Regarding Dark Favor - I don't want to run a card that really only works best on one card; the cards in this deck need to work under almost any circumstance in order for it to work.
@ Yananas -- That is weird. Have my decks given you any ideas? Mental Vapors and Midnight Recovery are both good suggestions for relpacing Shadow Slice . I've honestly never liked the card, but needed one to help out with damage. I may try mainboarding Mental Vapors though. High Priest of Penance would be good, but he doesn't help with the extort/cipher combo which concerns me.
March 24, 2013 10:01 a.m.
I had this same idea... How has this been working for you
March 24, 2013 4:46 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #20
@ KIOKI -- It has been tough balancing between extort sources and recurring spells (i.e. ones that use flashback and cipher). It's has greatly evolved from my initial concept, and has been working pretty well. I don't have the deck in paper yet, so I cannot playtest against my friends (my meta). I'd love to hear any suggestions you may have!
March 24, 2013 5:12 p.m.
Another +1. My one worry, is w/ Blind Obedience . It's definitely needed in any extortion sideboard, but unless you're VS aggro, it isn't very effective. Your control doesn't seem to take a major hit, w/ your 4X Hands of Binding , which I'm assuming comes in on T3 (T1 Thrull Parasite T2 Invisible Stalker ). I'd consider side boarding it, putting in another extortion card such as Syndic of Tithes or Kingpin's Pet . Lemme know what you think. I could be totally wrong. -OFWGKTA
March 24, 2013 5:31 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #22
@ OFWGKTA -- I definitely see where you're coming from. I honestly haven't had the time or means to playtest this deck as much as I'd like, but it's definitely a consideration for the sideboard. I'd probably end up dropping them plus a Crypt Ghast for an extort engine of CMC 2 or less. The benefit though, is that it's an extort engine that doesn't die to board wipes, and is rather hard to remove; enchantment hate isn't too common in my meta. It's really going to come down to playtesting.
March 24, 2013 6:07 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #23
Just had a really good though. I think... Drogskol Reaver anyone?
March 24, 2013 8:06 p.m.
hawgdriver says... #24
I think it is a good thought. This is the type of end-game punch the deck needs, and if you ask me, it's way better than Regent from the lifegain and the draw engine.
March 24, 2013 8:21 p.m.
Definitely, it's really good against midrange, a very common deck now a days.
ducttapedeckbox says... #1
@ thecrimsonchin8 -- Changed out Kingpin's Pet for Basilica Screecher because I now have Necropolis Regent.
I'm still deciding on a replacement for the 4th Crypt Ghast, and will probably sideboard Immortal Servitude in place of 2 Blind Obediences
March 20, 2013 4:18 p.m.