BTW,. the -1 Rhox Faithmender is something I can get behind. It was not very effective when I tested it.

@ hawgdriver & Chubbub -- Dropping the Regent for Drogskol Reaver . The draw engine is what caught my eye, and it should be relatively easy to play with Crypt Ghast . The lifegain is just a great bonus.

Hawgdriver, it never really gave me the "wow" impression I just got from realizing that Drogskol Reaver would be a good fit for the deck.

Also, I don't remember who recommended it, but should I move Blind Obedience to the sideboard?

Actually without the "[you may] draw a card" clause, I'm questioning the Reaver's usefulness

@ ducttapedeckbox - I had the same 'wow' moment when I saw you mention Drogskol Reaver . You're right, the lack of the 'may' clause can, in some cases, be a pain. However, he's a 7 CMC card. Even with Crypt Ghast you'll never drop him before turn 5-6 and by that point you'll want the card draw to keep pulling in Hands of Binding , Invisible Stalker , and Basilica Screecher . Drogskol Reaver is the kind of raw card advantage that you'll need in a deck like this to keep your tempo up. That said, with only 2 of them you may never even see a copy so in some games the draw will be a moot point. Also, no reason he can't just be a blocker. That way only your extort triggers (which you have complete control over) will activate the card draw. Generally speaking, unless you somehow fill the board with extort triggers, you'll be extorting no more than 2-3 times on each of your turns, and with the almost exclusively cheap mana curve you have you should have no trouble playing the cards you draw.

hey. so you must have been pretty excited about the Drogskol Reaver . if i had seen the comment earlier, i would have notified you about the lack of the [may] clause. anyways, i think i like Think Twice in this deck. maybe replace Blind Obedience for it? its what's breaking your $50 budget

Godless Shrine and Watery Grave for ultra ramping with Crypt Ghast . Also, Gift of Orzhova is a nice aura for Invisible Stalker and plays nicely with Drogskol Reaver .

I would, drop a Ghast for a 4th stalker, it just seems nice here since you are doing your Cipher and is hard to get rid of with anything other than a Boardclear. Try a 1/1 split with the reaver and Vampire. I like that split for an end game punch as stated. Either one being seen about turn 6 (If you hit your land drops) can end the game.

You really need to hit your mana drop every turn here. I suggest adding two more mana in to help. try 1 Orzhov guildgate and a Dimir. I would drop on of the other for a 2nd Dimir. You need to hit U/B more it seems here. I would drop a Blind or two for them. 2 if you go to 23 mana. Mana is an important part to any deck.

I personally like the shadow slice here over the undercity. I would drop that for one more slice. It will let you see it more often and with it on Stalker...GG.

If you only take out one blind for 1 mana, than I would drop the other for a 4th bat. If you go two mana, I would say take out a Crypt for a 4th bat. The mana ramp is not as great here with him as we may think. Seeing how there is only 9 sources that have swamp in the name for it to produce an extra mana.

I feel a better removal than the Charm could be used here, but I don't know what your meta is like to suggest anything that would still be good here and cheap.

the SB needs a complete overhaul. In reality the SB is about as important as the MB if not equal to it. The match-ups where this deck has trouble overcoming is where the SB really shines. The side-ins should let you have a bit better of a game against them. I will work up a decent sideboard on a budget as soon as I know your meta for you.

So...after playing it a bunch. . .

This built, or a variation of it, is actually somewhat competitive. But . . .

But what I find is that against the standard competitive builds, it stalls. And has a really has a hard time closing the deal.

The deck really needs some punch, right away, at 5-6 mana. Maybe earlier? I've played 3 games where I was holding Drogskol Reaver , about to make the comeback, but only had 6 mana. For 3 turns. Then drew a gate. lol. I love this card, and 1 copy makes sense, but still . .

And, you know, I think this is a 25 land concept. I see that you have 21 lands in the current build. Sure, that makes sense with a 2.0 CMC average cast. But you need to add in 1.5 for extort.

Plus. . . One of the great advantages of extort is the natural land-fixing of the mechanic. You can run more lands, have fewer casting/mulligan issues, but still max out mana usage on spells you cast. That is, you are happy either way--more than expected mana, or just enough mana. But at least you don't get the "not enough mana" problem, where you are sunk. Extort needs at least 4-5 lands to really hum, and 25 lands gets you there on schedule (4 on 4 at 60% of games) more often than 21 lands (4 on 4 at 40% of games).

Gosh I hate to sound like a broken record, but the 1-2 CMC flashbackers seem to fit so well in here. Here are some examples, soem food for thought.

Feeling of Dread - one of the best. With two extort creatures out, this is like a two-turn holiday from damage against many decks, and a +4/-4 life swing.

Saving Grasp - this has been an excellent card for those decks that run lots of creature hate. It gives nice card advantage; it's potentially a 2 for 1 if an opponent is foolish enough to forget it is in your grave. In addition, you can trickify it. Swing, unsummon, recast with extort for an extra blocker, then chump block, unsummon, recast for more extort. Any 2 CMC creatures in color with flash? Besides harry potter? (who is so NOT budget, but actually makes tons of sense when you think about the combos with Mentor of the Meek , Immortal Servitude , and extort)

Think Twice - I'm hot and cold on this one. I'm not a fan of the 2U flash cost; it is nice in some cases purely as an extort vessel with upside, but in other cases I wish I had a Negate , Dispel , or Smite , and I never get around to the eventual upside 2nd cast from graveyard--too busy squeezing the life out of my lands just casting and extorting, and dealing with problems.

On that note--this type of build screams for 1 CMC instants like Smite . It's like, extort turns every 1 CMC card into a 2-4 CMC card with added text: "blah blah blah. You gain 3 life and your opponent loses 3 life." It's too bad there aren't more cards besides Tormod's Crypt with 0 CMC. I wonder what else runs at 1 CMC and really fits?

Lingering Souls - I almost always love seeing this card. Especially against mill. It is great end game material - the extort and flashback (perhaps 4 extort over two turns), and 4x 1/1 flyers can be a nice closer. Early game it can be great offense if you want to slow play against a build with a lot of boardwipe. It's just one of those cards with such great value, you need a good reason to NOT run it. Plus, it's got some nice 'nerge in here.

Sideboard - Purify the Grave - this is more of a thought any a truly useful suggestion (like how I claim I am making otherwise useful suggestions?) I want to put this in here against the Snapcaster Mage Thought Scour Think Twice type control decks, but the one time I was able to side it in against that deck, and have it in my hand when snapcaster was cast, he only used harry potter to flash in a blocker against my Mentor of the Meek . After the game, a loss, Purify the Grave was still in my hand. All the same, it seems like a really nifty sb card; and it fits with the cheap-to-cast, free extra copy mechanic that extort seems to invite.

Immortal Servitude really needs about 15-20 creatures of the same mana cost, and 2 is what makes the most sense in this build (most # of extort creatures at a low cost. If there was another 4 1 CMC, perhaps after Dragon's Maze, it might be worth shifting to 1 CMC). Consider it a turn 8-12 card, and that will balance it's uselessness on turns 1-7 with the over the top bomb aspect on the turn 20 ultimate graveyard resurrection cast. On turn 8-13 you will have seen 15-20 cards of your build. That's 25% - 33% of your creatures, or, 1-2 of them if you are running 6 as you are now. Perhaps 1 of them will have been removed or chumped. So, in that case, immortal souls is 5 mana for 1 (expected) creature.

Now, if you run 18, it begins to make sense. First you would need replace Thrull Parasite with Syndic of Tithes . I would run Immortal Servitude only if you made a concerted effort to run only 2 mana creatures (besides a couple of bombs). I find that Knight of Infamy (awesome against humans) and Knight of Glory (awesome against black removal--sorry 'bout that, Mr. Tragic Slip ) are excellent choices to round out the 2 CMC spot. Both have nice 'nerge with Invisible Stalker , but they are often unblockable on their own, and swing for a nice 3-4 per turn. Plus, they can be a real kill shot when Immortal Servitude hits--all those exalteds back on the board. I've been pleasantly surprised by how helpful the pro-white and pro-black are. It can really stall a lot of builds.

This "build around Immortal Servitude " concept may be DOA for what you are trying to do, but it's just my thoughts on that card in this deck. I think one copy may be justified, as it is useful at 5 mana, but then scales in increasing value to late-game.

If running 2 CMC, mentor of the meek begins to make some sense. At 1-2 copies, he's an early draw engine, and has some great 'nerge with Lingering Souls and Moorland Haunt , as well as with Immortal Servitude . It is such a shame he's not a 2 CMC himself!!

I'm running hot and cold on Invisible Stalker . It just seems like he could be doing so much more work than I actually see. I wonder if it's worth it to run some Dark Favor and experiment with a more aggro approach to using stalker. Dark Favor plus knights plus stalker plus extort, with some cheap delay/stall.. . . Might have found an aggro deck hiding inside a sloowwwww grindy, slap-fight deck. Shadow Slice , while vastly more expensive, might also be an answer, and has the nicety of cipher/extort.

Again, humble suggestions you are free to ignore/criticize (I hope you and others do so). I enjoy this deck, and the challenge of perfection.

I agree with a lot of what hawgdriver has to say. Thrull Parasite isnt doing you a whole lot of good, all things considered. I'd rather have a bear (Syndic of Tithes ) with extort than a 1/1, even with the second ability Thrull Parasite brings to the table. I've been testing the deck some as well, and it really does have some land issues. I don't know about a going with 25, but 24 sounds like a good idea to me.

I continue to advocate dropping Crypt Ghast all together. This deck is not built (or intended) to be able to make good use of the card and there are better things you could do with that slot. Adding in Knight of Glory and/or Knight of Infamy strikes me as ultimately being more useful than Crypt Ghast .

I Agree on the crypt and and lands. i just didn't want to suggest ripping apart his deck is all. You def need 23-24 lands here I feel since we are not going dual lands.

Well, I have some comments to catch up on. With so many, I'm bound to miss something. If I do, don't hesitate to let me know!

@ thecrimsonchin8 -- Very true regarding Drogskol Reaver . At the end of this post I will detail the cards I would like to add to the deck.

@ w999 -- Blind Obedience will be very effective in my meta, but the cost may warrant its removal. Think Twice would be very nice though.

@ dante_klammer -- The shocklands are good in any deck, but please note that this is a budget deck that cannot allocate cost to expensive lands. Gift of Orzhova is no doubt good with Invisible Stalker , but doesn't really "go" with the rest of the deck. I'm hesitant to add it.

@ x8bitGangsta --

1. Agreed on dropping one Crypt Ghast . The Reaver and Regent will just have to come down to playtesting.
2. Again, I completely agree with increased mana base
3. I've been hesitant about a singleton of Undercity Plague . I might even drop Shadow Slice overall
4. My meta doesn't consist of the $500 decks - as I mostly play with a group of friends, I know pretty much all of their decks. There are almost all aggro decks, either R/G or R/W. Maybe a G/W populate or two.I haven't been to a FNM in a while (hence a lack of FNM reports, which I would do if I attended one) but would like this deck to stand up somewhat once I know the meta at the LGS

@ hawgdriver -- Holy crap that's a lot. Thank you for all of the advice! I'll try to respond to it all below.

1. I will be adjusting the land base to accommodate 23 lands after this post.
2. Feeling of Dread -- will consider for mainboard
3. Saving Grasp -- almost seems like a SB card to me (but I'm terrible at SB's...soo...)
4. Think Twice -- hesitant as well
5. Lingering Souls -- Has proven very effective, and will keep it at 3, maybe 4
6. Purify the Grave -- Ehhh I'm not too sure, but I can be persuaded
7. Immortal Servitude -- Haven't playtested enough to really get a feel for it. Not sure if I like it at all though and not sure if I want to convert the deck to accommodate it
8. Invisible Stalker -- I really like for this deck. It's an easy way to trigger cipher, and therefore more extort.

Thank you for the extensive playtesting! I hope your suggestions will help me greatly improve the deck.

@ thecrimsonchin8 & x8bitGangsta (again) -- Thrull Parasite might be dropped, it seems that its slot is better used for a more offensive card. I'm still not convinced to drop Crypt Ghast all together. It's definitely going to be dropped to a 3-of though...

With that said, here are some changes I'm looking to make, so I'd appreciate some feedback!

1. 1x (or 2) Necropolis Regent --> 1x (or 2) Drogskol Reaver
2. 1x Crypt Ghast --> 1x land
3. 4x Thrull Parasite --> 4x Syndic of Tithes
4. 1x Undercity Plague --> 1x land
5. 2x Shadow Slice --> 2x Feeling of Dread
6. 2x Blind Obedience --> 2x Feeling of Dread ?

To the sideboard, I'd like to add:

1. 2x Blind Obedience
2. 2x (or 3) Purify the Grave

Did I forget anything? Again, thank you everyone for all of the help, and please comment more with suggestions and +1s!

I agree on the first four, the final 2 are meh choices for me. If you want to do away with that cipher then feeling isn't bad. I figure you can tap enough with the Hands, but it would work nicely in a pinch. I would take out the 2 blind for one more feeling and that 24 land. I will work out on the rest of the deck.

if you do decide to drop some more crypt consider the 1/4 defender with extort he isn't all that bad really, he is a wall with extort for 3. Really not the best choice, but other decent extort cards escape me beside King pin pet. which could be nice punching in some early game damage. Just easier to remove than the wall.

@ x8bitGangsta -- Thank you again for the help! How many Drogskol Reaver s should I run? 1 or 2? Hmm but I completely overlooked that I have the tap from Hands of Binding . I will reconsider the Feeling of Dread . I'd prefer to keep the cipher in here, but there aren't too many great options for it.

The shadow slice I can see working for you. You have control enough till you could get it off. I would try the 1/1 split, either way when you hit and play either one, game is going to change, BUT I would run two of him because of that card draw.

and he is easier on your CMC seeing how it just requires 1U 1W over 3B and colorless. You have a better chance of being able to play him more often cause you should always have at least one of each by turn 6 while you may not have the three black needed

Dark Favor does some real work with invisible stalker. In your original version, I recall tormented soul; so I know you've mulled this one. You might add one copy and see how it treats you--I think it kicks ass, and gives the deck some balls. You can get opponent on a 4-turn clock early, and any extort makes it that much earlier. Most non-control decks cannot recover from stalker + dark favor + hands of binding.

Non-control...oof. . .I keep struggling against Supreme Verdict , Terminus , Mutilate , and Mizzium Mortars with stalker. Stalker has to be a core component, I think; budget friendly and cipher/extort friendly. But... I'd keep the dissipates and maybe negates in sb for the boardwipe.

If you do add dark favor, Necropolis Regent makes more sense, and you could add 1 of each Drogskol Reaver and Necropolis Regent for fun and variety in games.

Lately I've been testing an aggro version of this. Yeah. Esper aggro wtf. With the exalt knights. So here is the metaphysical reality I've embraced about esper extort . . .

This concept, with the proper cards around an extort + stalker core, can be effective in either form--either a turn 6 target win based on swinging hairy-chested unblockable early and often, or a turn 15 target win based on a lot of extortion. It's a matter of preference. The aggro version carries the early/mid punch that the other version lacks, but the stall/cipher version (feeling of dread fits) has the potential to hang around for a long time, and fish for an answer deeper in the deck. Against your meta, maybe the "answer" isn't as critical as compared to facing the ubiquitous thragtusk, huntmaster, or obzedat that competitve decks always seem to produce on turn 3-6.

Because of the unreliability of finding that "answer" (e.g. Necropolis Regent or Drogskol Reaver) when needed for the late game kill, I am inclined to develop the aggro version to "perfection."

I notice you are reluctant about Smite . Orzhov charm does great work, and doesn't need to wait for an attack, and has good synergy with dark favor. But, the nice thing about the smite is that you can potentially make an opponent pause when you leave that one W source open. Maybe.

Since you asked :D, I'll make another pitch for Saving Grasp . You can use it primarily as counter-removal. This is a net-zero application--opponent spends 2-4 on removal, you spend 1 on saving grasp, and 2+ on recast. However, you come out ahead on cards, since you have another copy sitting in the grave. Plus, it is easy to attach some extort to a 1 mana cast. Thus, you are adding two extort vehicles to the build, and they will surely see some extort when used. In addition, when used the second time, you generally are seeing some card advantage, since you can use it against two removal spells. Finally, you can use it to recast a creature (with extort), perhaps when you just need to hit that final 1-3 life of your opponent, or even after it chumps some fatty. I do think it makes sense in the patient version of this build, especially when you know you are facing an opponent with a lot of target creature removal. It is not as amazing against boardwipe. So, in summary, it gives you 4 opportunities for extort. 1) when cast 2) when creature is recast 3) when cast the second time, and 4) when creature is recast 2nd time.

Blind obedience does great work and is hard to remove. It's a solid addition to your build, but it really adds value when you face those strangleroot geist, obzedat, and hellrider decks. Given your meta, it may be more a luxury than a staple.

@ x8bitGangsta "he is easier on your CMC seeing how it just requires 1U 1W over 3B"

great point

yet, if you draw a second Drogskol Reaver , then it might be a dead draw considering you the fact that you don't want to draw out... unless you add Laboratory Maniac which i don't think he wants. if he does, Think Twice would become a great choice. but then that ruins the theme...

I've made some changes (see Update section) and will respond to your comments tomorrow. Thanks for all of the help again, I really appreciate it!

Have you thought about Midnight Recovery ? Or would this not really be needed?

So what's your goal for the deck? Here's my view of what you could potentially aim for. Try to stall early on and ramp a little with Crypt Ghast until you're able to drop Drogskol Reaver and extort for cards to win. So, 2 things. One, I feel like cipher won't even be necessary with the little bit of ramp and draw con. Two, you want to be able to draw into a game changer. That may be a little difficult to find in budget but even something like Mind Grind could win games with enough mana

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, keep them coming! And don't forget to +1 if you haven't already! :)

@ x8bitGangsta -- Agreed. With the four Crypt Ghast s, I didn't expect to have trouble with the BBB mana cost, but I think the Reaver will be a much more reliable card.

@ hawgdriver -- I agree that Blind Obedience is more of a luxury. It has been moved to my sideboard for the time being. I may not be seeing it, but I'm still not in favor of Smite . It might just come down to some playtesting for me to be convinced (which I will definitely get done this weekend). The same goes for Dark Favor . With the current build, what would you suggest removing? I think with Dark Favor , I'd like to run Orzhov Charm though. And yet again, same situation for Saving Grasp . Going to need playtesting, and I'd appreciate you thoughts on what to cut.

@ w999 -- I think with two Reavers out, I will almost always win. I'm not too concerned about having two out, but am concerned about them in my opening hand. My goal for the deck is to get some little extort-cipher tricks going early-game, and end the game with beatdown from either the Reavers or even possibly Shadow Slice + Invisible Stalker . I've been getting that feeling with cipher, but I think Hands of Binding is too good to remove. I could be persuaded otherwise about Shadow Slice though. Mind Grind would be interesting, and once I get a core for this deck together I'll try it out.

@ YungBakes -- I don't think it's all that needed, because I'm not really relying on any single creature to win.

I am a big fan of Underworld Connections over Azorius Charm . After testing how fast you can gain life, the 1 life loss can be easily made up with a card draw.

The charm is in there for more than simply that one card draw. It is there for its utility! It can net you a card, Put a big beastie back on top of it's owners deck, or it can give you lifelink. That last one may not always be needed here but the option is nice. Plus it could be used to save his Reaver from spot removal, by putting it back on his library. I don't agree with the Orzhov charm here. You can only make use of it's destroy ability. Granted the life lost wouldn't really hurt you, but I feel you could replace it with some that could have a bit more utility here.

If you like the charms consider Dimir Charm . It really isn't that bad and it is cheap. It is great against early game creatures and some that come out later. Like Geist or Huntmaster and the like. It can counter some nasty sorcery's, or it can let you cycle through your top three for the draw you need to hit.