No. Shadow Slice stays. I'm the one who convinced you into adding it. I just meant that if you wanted to change the deck a little, you could take out all ciphers and just use Feeling of Dread instead

I personally would not at add mind grind. It would really do nothing here. There is better choices.

@ tep -- See the comment following yours, that's basically my opinion as well.

@ x8bitGangsta -- I can get some use out of the first ability as well, but the third is completely useless. Dimir Charm is a good option though. I have a playset of them so I'll see which works better. And Mind Grind would really just be for a funny win, and only use late game. It's a dead-draw for most of the game though, so I'm leaning towards not adding it, but am still considering it.

@ w999 -- I'd rather keep the cipher then, I misunderstood what you were saying :P

duct, how do you think this deck would stack up in competitive online play against decks like my own Naya Human Aggro deck? Esper control etc?

Mind Grind would be a fun way to win against those decks that are running a ton of land-seek and self-mill. But tbh, I think you would need more swamps to help Crypt Ghast make it truly effective for a late-game kill.

@ bcoots -- I honestly cannot speculate on that currently. I haven't had the time nor means to playtest against top decks. I also do not have the deck in paper yet to test against friends.

@ hawgdriver -- That's essentially what I was thinking. I'll have a lot of mana, but probably not even to secure a win with Mind Grind I already have them from my Perfection of Milling deck, so it's worth trying.

I like the synergy between cipher and extort, but I really do think that with the current cipher cards being so MEH this deck would be better off focusing on flashback and bouncing ETB creatures while forgetting about cipher entirely. I'm hoping Dragon's Maze gives us some better cipher spells, but for now I think you should steer clear of it.

Just my opinion.

@Dakeefers: That makes two of us hoping for better ciphers. Most cipher really is kinda meh, but Hands of Binding and Undercity Plague really shine.

I've had folks Slaughter Games my Hands of Binding . It can really slow down an opponent, and with some cipher/extort, work a nice +X/-X swing over a few turns. It goes without saying that it's a 2-mana bullseye/card-disadvantager unless it's on hexproof.

Thanks for the comments guys! I had my wisdom teeth out today, so sorry for some weird responses. Don't forget to +1 if you haven't already!

@ Dakeefers -- I'm not loving it either, but I wanted to create a deck that does something that hasn't really been done before (well, kind of). The little cipher in this deck has been proving to be working well with the deck, but I am definitely hoping for more cipher.

@ Yananas -- Agreed. Hands of Binding is amazing, while I'm not sure if I'm sold on Undercity Plague yet.

@ hawgdriver -- Completely agreed. But that's what Invisible Stalker is for!

Soo... I might drop Crypt Ghast .... I playtested a little yesterday and it did nothing for me. Anyone have suggestions regarding what to add? I was thinking Dark Favor .

Dark Favor at one or two copies is very nice with Invisible Stalker . Nothing better than to swing for chunks of 4 unblockable and hexproof early in the game. You know what would pair well with the deck? AEtherize -- assuming your meta is aggressive but doesn't run a lot of haste. If it does run a lot of haste, then definitely look at a copy or two of Blind Obedience .

So, maybe -3 Crypt Ghast, and +1/2 Dark Favor , and +1/2 AEtherize .

If it's not a creature-heavy aggressive meta, then you might run Knight of Infamy (my human deck can't attack yet?) or Knight of Glory (I can't tragic slip him?) in main (or, more likely, side) depending on the colors of the meta. Nice defense and a little more punch with Invisible Stalker or Basilica Screecher . And you might be able to slip in 3 damage on turn 3 (or 4 if you get a second copy on the board).

So, in that case, maybe -3 Crypt Ghast, and +1/2 Dark Favor and +1/2 Knight of Infamy or Knight of Glory .

A copy of Dispel (easiest to extort) or Negate makes sense depending on how many instants are in your meta.

drogskol reaver is a fabulous idea.....

@ hawgdriver -- I'd rather not run 1-ofs of cards such as AEtherize and the Knights. I would like to have 3 of one of them, and I'm leaning towards Dark Favor . Maybe SB an additional counter?

@ akelm88 -- Thank you! I've been really liking it in the deck. Don't forget to +1 if you haven't already! :)

Dark Favor on something besides Invisible Stalker seems bad. And a ratio of 3 Dark Favor to 4 Stalker ain't great, imo. Maybe 2 Dark Favor and 1 Curiosity ? That way at least you aren't asking for card disadvantage much of the time, since Basilica Screech can get through...and it's cheap.

@ hawgdriver -- I think Dark Favor would be good on Basilica Screecher and Drogskol Reaver as well. And it wouldn't be bad on Syndic of Tithes either. I'm very against running a singleton of a card that isn't a win con.

I like the most recent change :). I'm curious about something else, how well is Dissipate working for you? Does the 1UU casting cost cause any issues? Between Dissipate and Syncopate I usually opt for Syncopate purely because it is more flexible. It can be problematic later in the game when there is a lot of mana on the board but it has the same secondary effect and could conceivably be cast T2. Just a thought. I like the evolutions this deck has been making, I'd love to test it against mine somehow.

I have been following this deck for a while now and although I have not actually play tested it myself (IRL), I have always seen Crypt Ghast as a pretty important element. What exactly is your reasoning behind removing it? Not that I would know better or anything, Just curious because it seems really useful.

@ thecrimsonchin8 -- I've chosen Dissipate over Syncopate because it's simply more reliable. The double U cost usually isn't a problem - if I'm that mana screwed, being unable to counter something is the least of my worries. Syncopate can be more flexible, but late game it becomes relatively useless unless your opponent taps out.

@ purpletygerx -- Crypt Ghast is a great card, when you're running a lot of swamps. When I'm only running 7, he isn't that great nor crucial to the deck. I do wish that the dual lands such as Drowned Catacomb counted towards his doubling ability though. In a two-color deck or one that runs a lot of shocklands, he would be more helpful. And, in this deck, the only thing he helps me cast is a Drogskol Reaver (in addition to doubling the amount of extort I can do). Well, that makes him sound useful, but in the games I've played he really isn't that useful.

I haven't run an extort deck before, so I have a question: Is 8 cards (10 after sideboarding) with extort enough? I would think Blind Obedience does everything you need, extorting AND keeping blockers out of theway for a turn. Sounds like main deck material to me. Thoughts?

@ FluffyNinjastar -- With the removal of Crypt Ghast , I lost three extort sources. I haven't playtested against enough different decks yet, so I can't say if the amount of extort sources is enough. Blind Obedience isn't in the MB because of the cost; my budget decks don't break $50 in the MB. So yes, it is MB material but as someone else noted, it's probably more of a luxury than a staple.

Hi there,I'm super into this deck. The fact that it is so cheap is really what blows me away. But why Azorius Guildgate? What do you think about using Glacial Fortress instead, which gives you the opportunity to have it enter the battlefield untapped. Just a thought. Still a great deck!

@ SeveerHaon -- I obtain dual lands or shock lands after I assemble the basic structure of the deck. I want to prove that the deck is still usable without a one-hundred-dollar land base. Thanks for the support, and don't forget to +1 if you haven't already!

Ah. Well, if you do end up needing more extort, Kingpin's Pet has extort and can work as a cipher target if you lack an Invisible Stalker .

@ FluffyNinjastar -- I've been going back and fourth between Kingpin's Pet and Dark Favor . The Pet allows another extort source, but the Favor makes my unblockable 1/1 into a 4/2 unblockable. Did I mentioned hexproof too?

Ah bueno bueno. My other thought was, have you ever considered Rhox Faithmender for this deck? I like him with extort since he doubles your life gain. Especially with Drogskol, it just makes your bomb even bigger since you gain 12 life per Drogskol swing. Might help the deck last longer against things like Blitz decks.