oh wow. actually, with Doorkeeper , i say go the defender route. its great defense and also mills which is a really viable strategy. it also ramps, letting you get more creatures out. just make sure you have a good way to keep your hand full. in colors the best, i think, are Underworld Connections and Jace, Memory Adept . out of color (since you have Axebane Guardian and Sylvan Caryatid ) is Sphinx's Revelation , which is actually only have off color

@ Tempest -- Yeah, I'm liking the defender route seeing as the mill-related creatures took a beating with the loss of Jace's Phantasm . The only problem with the draw cards you mentioned is their price. This deck is going to stay under $50 like the original PoM.

So let's say I take the defender route. Do you think BUG is necessary or could I get away with simply Dimir? The upside of BUG is that I gain access to a reliant ramp base, but I lose the consistency that accompanies a budget 2-color deck. Would green give me access to any worthy draw engines?

Sorry,tempest! Why do we need the user tag for your name...?

I say go defender. More fun, interesting, and unique.

underworld connections is about $2 bucks and with the green ramp, you should need your lands too much. yes, i think you should go BUG.

i'm still tagged even if it doesn't tag my username :P don't know why lol

Unless buffy has some weird/awesome combo or something that may convince me out of the BUG defender mill, I think that's what I'm going to go with.

That's really weird, tempest... so when the deck named "tempest" is tagged, you're also notified?

With the BUG defender ramp, what do you think the core cards should be? Right now I'm thinking of Doorkeeper , Wall of Frost , Axebane Guardian , Phenax, God of Deception , and possibly Gatecreeper Vine . How much presence should mill spells have (instants and sorceries).

What about Colossus of Akros ? Should Consuming Aberration be finding its way into this build?

I'm not expecting you guys to answer everything I asked above, I just wanted to spit out some things to think about. Whatever advice you can give is greatly appreciated!

I've put up a shell to start. My immediate concern is that the average mana cost is a little too high for my liking, but maybe it'll work out with the ramp. Let me know what you guys think!

Ehhhh. I don't like the defenders, personally. Your too susceptible to wipes ruining your game plan, I think the more control-y route would be better.

Honestly, you have barley lost anything in rotation. I would say just replace Jace's Phantasm with Wight, and Thought Scour is easily replaceable.

Now, if the point of version 2.0 is to update the old version, but just remove the rotating cards,, I don't think the deck will be better with defenders. But, if you want to give the deck a whole new twist, the defenders are fine. From a competitive stand point? Just remove the rotating cards, the deck will run almost as smoothly as before.

If defenders if the way you wish to take this, Prophet of Kruphix is awesome with Phenax, I made a deck very similar to this just yesterday, and that combo is sweet. Another thing that's great with Phenax is Inspired. Tap all your creatures to mill them on your turn, then on the opponents turn they all untap and you can trigger Inspired on your OPPONENTS turn!

I better stop commenting before I tell you ALL of my ideas, haha.

Since your playing green, Grisly Salvage , Whip of Erebos , and Commune with the Gods are always options.

There are also some kill spells you may want to take advantage of, such as Drown in Sorrow or Hero's Downfall . Sorrow is the closest you'll get to a black sweeper.

Another question I have is: do you have a back up plan? In version 1, you could mill them to death OR kill them with Consuming Aberration and Jace's Phantasm . I would maybe consider putting Aberration back in.

Or, just play Sphinx of the Chimes + Shadowborn Apostle !

My concern is that I won many games with Jace's Phantasm , whether he was an early drop or a late-game 5/5 for U. I really really really really don't like Wight of Precinct Six . It's probably personal preference, but I never thought he was that good. I guess in my playgroup he has some use as a good portion of the decks are aggro and end up with a decent amount of creatures in the grave.

I haven't decided what I want 2.0 to be - if defenders seem like a more consistent or reliable strategy, I will twist the entire deck theme. But, if you guys think I can simply update the existing deck with a few new cards, I will do that as well. Maybe I'll make both? Not sure....

I really like the Prophet + Inspired combo, but I think that would be a little much for this deck. I want to keep the non-milling cards to a minimum.

Hero's Downfall won't be an option due to its' price tag, but Drown in Sorrow would be a good addition.

And yes, I definitely need an alternate win condition. I was thinking Consuming Aberration or Mind Grind ... thoughts?

Hahaha and I don't want to completely take your idea, but that is a sweet deck :P

Oh, didn't realize Downfall was so expensive. Well, there's always Doom Blade .

I would personally probably just simply update the deck by taking out the rotating cards. But, again, if you want something new, go with defenders.

I would go with the Aberration, I don't like Mind Grind .

To update the original deck, I'd need a 1- or 2-drop to replace Jace's Phantasm . I haven't been able to find one that is both a low cost and fits in with milling.

I like the idea of updating the existing deck but I also like the defender-mill strategy, so I may do both.

Haha, just realized I suggested Grisly Salvage . Thought it milled them for some reason. Never mind...

I saw that... was kind of confused or thought I was missing something haha :P

On a different note, I'm heading back to school today so my activity on this site may not be as much as its been, but I'll definitely try to remain active on a daily basis.

Hoping to get a game or two in tonight on Cockatrice. See how this deck works out

What do you want at this stage. Suggestions? Answers to your questions?

Really anything. I'm going to both revamp the original deck and make this Version 2.0 with defenders and such. Suggestions for either on this page would be great so that I can start advertising them again.

My main concern is replacements for the since rotated cards in the original, and how to allow this 2.0 version to survive.

Welp. I did two games on Cockatrice today and both didn't go so well. I'm having hesitations with going BUG since the deck is already limited on the amount of control, and the mana costs to make Phenax a creature aren't enough. I'm considering dropping green, or maybe just the green ramp defenders and adding in other cards that may help more... Thoughts? Thanks again guys for all of the help!

+1. Triton Tactics ?

@ HumanOverlord -- The toughness boost is nice, but it doesn't add to Phenax's devotion counter nor does it help with blocking my creatures since I don't attack. The boost for one mana is nice though. I think it'll require further discussion and testing though, thanks!

Look into Nighthowler or Wight of Precinct Six might be good additions as they build towards the devotion and they also ramp up from milling. They can get pretty beefy with Phenax especially against creature decks.

@ slop27 -- Thank you for the suggestion. You also mentioned my reason for not including Nighthowler and Wight of Precinct Six -- they get large against creature-heavy decks. Against control builds and such, they're rather unhelpful. They also lack any form of evasion or utility, besides a possibly decent body. If I were to add a large creature for an alternate win condition, it would probably be Consuming Aberration , unless you have a better suggestion. Thanks again!