Also, maybe add Devour Flesh ? Maybe as a replacement for Far / Away if it turns out better (or worse, then dont.). Because you don't care about life totals since you mill, it might as well be a Diabolic Edict :P

I bet things get tough without Hero's Downfall ... just saying.

1+ for budget swag. Check my take on Dimir if you want, Vast Emptiness. Any input from anyone is appreciated.

@ dimax -- I'm not sure if it's the games I've been getting into on Cockatrice, but Consuming Aberration gets removed in every single game I play. Even GW has an easy answer for it in Selesnya Charm . I'll also consider Devour Flesh , although letting an opponent choose what to sacrifice is one of the things I strongly dislike.

@ HappehNinja -- Thanks! Against other decks of this budget level, I don't miss Hero's Downfall too much.

the thing is, you can use aetherling's ability to bump its toughness for phenax if they are regenerating a lot of life

How useful do you find Dimir Charm ? Being a control player at heart I personally dropped it for more reliable counterspells, though Ultimate Price (anti-MUD/MBD and many fat RG beasties) may have a place in this slot since you can't run Hero's Downfall . The aforementioned Duress for Triton Tactics really speaks to me as it's just mini-Thoughtseize : take a 'walker or critical spell and at the worst see what your opponent is up to. Great 1-drop for a color combo that is very lacking in them, imo.

Duress is definitely what I would put in Triton Tactics 's slot. On a side note, have you considered using any raw mill spells, like Tome Scour or Breaking ?

@Legionnaire I think the strength of this deck vs. burn-style mill decks is that Phenax complements well with the walls- you curve your way through the game dropping walls and ending with Phenax. Raw mill won't help that much and it is only card disadvantage, not to mention it takes valueable slots :)

@ tempest -- Agreed. I like having a more versatile and evasive bomb than a big, easily killed one.

@ alulien -- Dimir Charm is mostly in there because it fits nicely with the curve. It's not all that useful, so replacing it with a kill spell like Ultimate Price is definitely not out of the question. I also like the change of Duress for Triton Tactics .

@ Legionnaire -- dimax basically stated what I would, please check that out regarding raw mill spells.

With a bunch of comments and changes made, I think it's time for a comment purge. To recap/remind you of the previous discussion...

Changes that resulted from this discussion include:

• Replaced a Swamp with Rogue's Passage
• Replaced Consuming Aberration with AEtherling
• Replaced Triton Tactics with Duress

Changes that are still pending further testing and discussion include:

• Replacing Dimir Charm with Ultimate Price
• Incorporating Pilfered Plans and/or Read the Bones

If I've missed anything, please let me know!

If Dimir Charm fits the curve but hasn't been found useful then we can definitely find something better. Have you been able to get any cockatrice games in with the new list? UB 2-drops are quite versatile, so we have some options to pick from to find something that supports the current list.

Counters: Negate , Essence Scatter , Syncopate , and Stymied Hopes - not including Thassa's Rebuff , Spell Rupture or Nullify as they're too narrow, nor Gainsay as that would be sideboard for MUD. Essence Scatter would be my first choice: helps support the removal suite and isn't limited like Doom Blade , though it can be a dead draw in some matchups. Negate would be a close second if you find yourself having no problems with creatures, then this helps protect your board or deal with spell/walker-threats. Syncopate and Stymied Hopes would work best played on turn 2: most decks (aside from control) will almost always tap out and not have enough to pay the 1 - these are both quite narrow in application though as drawn later game they're usually pretty dead.

Removal: Ultimate Price , Devour Flesh , Shrivel , and Warped Physique . Warped Physique can kill indestructible... but only if you have cards in hand. It can be really surprising, and deadly, as people don't expect it, but the contingency on cantrips is difficult. Shrivel would be a very narrow, local-meta include. Devour Flesh has less restriction than Ultimate Price but can also be dealt with easier, while on the flip Price is a direct kill for MANY big meta threats.

Bounce: Voyage's End , Cyclonic Rift . Voyage's End is an OK card... but unless you find yourself racing to establish board presence, it's probably not worth it. Cyclonic Rift is a strictly better Disperse and can be really handy when dealing with Gods (Rift to bounce and set up a Duress or counterspell), other pesky enchantments like Assemble the Legion or even reset a 'walker before they ult (or set up a Duress/counter play). The overload is just icing too.

Creatures: Doorkeeper , Murmuring Phantasm , and Returned Phalanx . I'd probably not bother with Doorkeeper as he would take away from the deck too much. Murmuring Phantasm can provide a big ol' butt on turn 2 and dodges everything except Supreme Verdict and destroy-removal. Returned Phalanx can be a big deterrent with the 3 toughness, not to mention it can act as a pseudo-Mutavault in this deck by activating the attack ability if all else fails.

What does the deck need most? Once you have a feel, drop the Charm and swap for something above. I believe that's a fairly exhaustive list of options that make sense to include.

are the guild gates in there rather than Temple of Deceit or Watery Grave Simply due to budget, or was that an over site?

Triton Tactics is a beast with phenax. Lets say that you have the god and Wall of Frost . you can block with those creatures, tap to mill 14, and then Triton Tactics s at end of turn for another 20. That totals up to 34 cards milled for one mana, it ends game and i know since i have been on the receiving end a lot.

Well, now i see that you got rid of the tactics. Why did you do that?

@ alulien -- I have yet to play enough games with the deck to know what would be the best replacement for Dimir Charm , but will refer back to your post when I have an idea.

@ Gilenborn -- Yep, budget constraints.

@ Droxium -- I've been beginning to realize that I'm running a deck that is entirely dependent on one card to win. With that in mind, I've been trying to make the deck less conditional and more consistent. The first change along those lines was AEtherling , as it provides a late-game bomb that is very hard to remove. Triton Tactics really doesn't help much unless Phenax is on the table either. The walls don't really need the boost, so it's really only useful when I have the god out. Duress appeared to be a more viable option because it allows me to get rid of threats early on, before they even hit the field. It's no Thoughtseize , but can still help me dump a Planeswalker or big spell that I don't want to hit the field.

Definitely feel like you need either more draw power through Pilfered Plans or scrying through Dissolve . I would also throw in Thoughtseize for Duress . I haven't used Codex Shredder so I don't know about that; however, for sideboard maybe Jace, Memory Adept for Control and Pithing Needle for Elixir of Immortality which is being used in Control to make their deck more potent for spells.

@ Dorfrat -- Please notice that this is a budget deck and note the cost restraint I have stated in the description. Jace, Memory Adept and Thoughtseize are way out of that price range. I am working on adding Pilfered Plans and/or Read the Bones to the deck, but the 3-drop slot is very tight in Dimir colors. I am also in the process of working on the sideboard. Pithing Needle is definitely going in.

It's looking good so far. The two things I'm mainly questioning are Codex Shredder and Omenspeaker . I've got mixed feelings about the shredder, though playtesting with your deck does make it seem viable in your open hand with nothing else to play. The speaker, however, I have several issues with. While I realize she is "scry 2" when she enters the battlefield, I don't feel like that's going to help you as much as you think, especially since after that, she's probably going to die. A 3 body won't be able to block beyond turn three, and even if she does stick around, she's only milling 3. Some considerations for a replacement would be Murmuring Phantasm for the bigger body or Returned Phalanx for the ability to kill what it blocks, and to attack against the control to keep pressure on.

Also, I have my own version of the Dimir mill up. It's not budget, but any suggestions you have would be appreciated:

One thing about Omenspeaker in the current list is that she's the only source of scry, with 0 cantrips. I'd say that she is essential to the current list.

Codex Shredder has a narrow application in that it's most effective when played as early as possible. It helps smooth out the curve, but that's the card I would personally drop for Read the Bones or Pilfered Plans .

@ Legionnaire -- Codex Shredder is an amazing 1-drop as it can essentially shut down the scry lands. It's a decent milling engine until the late game, where you can use it as recursion if necessary. Omenspeaker has actually been extremely helpful few games I've played with this latest version. If I'm hitting all of my land drops, she helps me find AEtherling or Phenax, and if I'm not, she helps me get rid of cards I'd prefer to not play. While a bigger body would be nice, I'm usually set on T3 as I can drop either Wall of Frost or Hover Barrier , and that will hold my opponent down for another few turns.

@ alulien -- Agreed regarding Omenspeaker . I was actually thinking about replacing Dimir Charm with draw power, since that's probably the least useful card in the build right now.

Got patched up the old mill deck to this - going to take it down to my local FNM og test it out. Thought I got jayce/ashiok and some shock/scry lands with me. Ill see how it goes!

you need to either remove Rogue's Passage or add Consuming Aberration back in. The passage is pretty much useless when you have Aetherling

Sideboard Drown in Sorrow and Bile Blight, Drown in sorrow just destroys aggro decks and bile blight is just good in general imo

@ Oregon -- Let us know how it works out!

@ Kryptonick -- Removed the passage.

@ Drkblade -- Please link cards when commenting. I will add both Drown in Sorrow and Bile Blight to the sideboard for now as 3-ofs.

Wheres the big daddy D at? No love for Desecration Demon ?

Desecration Demon would take up almost 4/5 of the decks budget. There's a $50 cap on this build.

I think the switch to cantrip from Dimir Charm is definitely a good move. I would recommend Read the Bones over Pilfered Plans purely because it digs deeper and helps you find exactly what you need. I think the 2 milled from Pilfered Plans is a drop in the bucket given that once you get the mill going you're looking at easily 10 milled/turn.

@ juicytoot -- As mentioned, Desecration Demon doesn't fit the budget nor the theme (while a great drop).

@ alulien -- Agreed regarding the usefulness. However, I am concerned for those games where I drop low in life and would be better off with the Plans. Also, do you think this will overcrowd my 3-drop spot?