Honestly, I think you should drop both talrands. He's more like an alternate win con instead of something to help you against other decks. So drop 2 of him and the rift (if you want) for whichever one you decide to put in. Once again, that would depend on you're LGS
February 22, 2013 10:23 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #3
I agree Talrand, The Sky Summoner is an alternate win con., but he also helps against certain decks. For example, my friend runs a kind-of budget Boros aggro deck, that is just a lot of creatures. Ordinarily, this deck cannot stand against so many creatures because, well, it doesn't have many. Talrand poops out 2-3 tokens per turn on average, and has saved me many times in games.
Are those two in fact the only two cards in standard that will shuffle my graveyard into my graveyard?
February 22, 2013 10:42 a.m.
dream_cast says... #4
You could play card:Memory's Journey but you wouldn't be able to flashback it.
February 22, 2013 10:53 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #5
I saw card:Memory's Journey, but it would be pretty useless versus a mill deck -- three cards wouldn't even postpone getting milled by a turn (unless they were relying on a Thought Scour ) :P
February 22, 2013 10:55 a.m.
dream_cast says... #6
I don't know if Reminisce is Standard legal as it's from a Duel Deck
February 22, 2013 11:08 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #7
It is not standard legal, but thanks for the suggestion!
February 22, 2013 11:10 a.m.
I've tried this deck out a bit, and I found that Mind Grind 's have been 10x more successful if I mill out with Mind Sculpt or Thought Scour right before Mind Grind x=3. Another great thing I saw was Cyclonic Rift one or all if you have the mana then Mind Grind x=1.
I substituted in Crypt Ghast for Consuming Aberration to make this consistently possible for the higher mana need. Although I think Crypt Ghast at best is a sideboard option for that reason.
February 22, 2013 11:58 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #9
Why does Mind Grind work better when you use it after Mind Sculpt or Thought Scour ? In case they counter it? I'm not I understand that or using Cyclonic Rift before Mind Grind ...
I was running Crypt Ghast for a while, and it was not nearly as effective as Consuming Aberration . I don't think another creature that has a high'ish CMC is a good idea, considering this deck is already slow enough.
February 22, 2013 3:07 p.m.
For mill vs mill side boarding you can jam 4 witchbane orbs in there it shuts off mill completely. Most mill spells except mind grind and aberration are targeted
February 22, 2013 3:27 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #11
That is true, Rage!!!! I didn't even think of that, thank you!
February 22, 2013 4:23 p.m.
Perfection of Milling vs. The Enchantresses Door To Winning.
I didn't really think this was going to be the best matchup for Door, but we will see. Game 1: You started off with an okay hand that was keepable, but then drew absolutely perfect draws. I mean, it was perfect :D. You drew so much mill, that on turn six I had like 25 cards in my library xD. Just when it looked hopeless, I got the Curse of Exhaustion + Knowledge Pool no spells combo. After doing that, I realized you had milled all 3x of my Door to Nothingness , so I scooped.
Game 2: You kept a nice hand that included 2x Mind Sculpt , so yeah, I kept. You milled me a lot early, but I was able to stabilize at around 25 cards. You had a Lazav encoded with a Paranoid Delusions (which is super good). I had a door in my opening hand, so that helped. I kept you to 1 spell a turn with Curse of Exhaustion , which really slowed you down. I was able to stay alive, and then I drew a Chromatic Lantern and a Knowledge Pool , which basically won me the game. You couldn't cast spells, and I had all the lands and Birds of Paradise I needed to sac the door for the win. Going to game 3.
I would like to say that both decks got EXTREMELY lucky in this game. I drew 4x Birds of Paradise (yup, you heard right), 3x Abundant Growth , and 2x Chromatic Lantern . Sadly (for my deck) you got lucky when you needed to. I Terminus d, putting 2 5/5 card:Jace's Phantasm (one of which you had just drawn) and 3x Birds of Paradise (one of them died in combat) onto the bottom of their respective libraries. This is when you got lucky. I was at 5 life, and you had JUST drawn the second card:Jace's Phantasm. You topdecked a third. It was really annoying, and I didn't topdeck anything in return to stop it.
Thoughts are that both decks played very well, and my door deck did better then expected. This game was much better land balanced then the other matchup. Perfection of Milling wins 2-1.
February 22, 2013 5:26 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #13
Wow, thank you for such detailed descriptions of the playing you've done with my deck! With this being the second deck you've tested against, are there any particular things that I need to work on with this deck? I also picked up the cards I needed to finish the current mainboard today, so I might take it to FNM next Friday.
February 22, 2013 5:43 p.m.
@ducttapedeckbox Mind Sculpt before Mind Grind works really well because it helps to eliminate potential land clumps. As far as what I've noticed since finding that out, I've had a 8 out of 10 bigger success with mind grind by preemptively milling and then hitting Mind Grind x = 2 or 3
Cyclonic Rift before Mind Grind is good for that potential fail mill. Like you just milled them to an amazing top deck. If you use Cyclonic Rift to peel their threatening permanent off the board or all of them, you put them in a position of losing their awesome creature (usually) or quickly establishing a new board presence.
February 22, 2013 5:52 p.m.
Yeah, I enjoy writing these :D. Hmm, well since I'm not sideboarding and that wasn't a standard deck, I don't think you need to make any changes based on that match up. Over all, I'm not sure if I can think of anything. You swept first round, and that wasn't standard. Your deck is moving on, so maybe we will see some more telling playtests then :). I'll post the results here when I'm finished.
February 22, 2013 5:54 p.m.
Also, like Rage!!! pointed out, if you face a deck that uses Witchbane Orb be ready to have artifact hate or the rift/counterspell combo ready. Otherwise, it will destroy this deck
February 22, 2013 5:54 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #18
Having more success by Mind Sculpt ing before Mind Grind is not statistically significant, and simply an act of chance. I could get into all of the statistics, but I won't (unless you really want me to). This is solely reliant on how the other deck is shuffled.
That does make sense regarding Cyclonic Rift , though.
February 22, 2013 6:07 p.m.
@ducttapedeckbox I am a fan of statistical analysis. It could be pegged right down to luck, but if you have the mana open, it's always nice to check if the next card or two is a land anyway. With only 2 Mind Grind I would hate to see it get wasted with a top deck land.
February 22, 2013 6:15 p.m.
Dragonis89 says... #21
Have you thought of maybe putting in Trepanation Blade automatic mill every time you attack plus a boost in attack power as well.
February 22, 2013 7:09 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #22
@ buffy -- Sounds good, thank you again for doing this!
@ w999 -- Same thing happened to me when linking Rage's name. But yes, I will make sure I can get rid of Witchbane Orb . Good thing Consuming Aberration and Mind Grind , my heavy hitters, can still work!
@ Dragonis89 -- I've considered Trepanation Blade , but what would I remove?
@ Enyeto -- Yes, getting rid of top-decked lands is always a possibility, but it could also lead you to a pocket of lands. This would make it more effective to Mind Grind and then Mind Sculpt . However, during a game, it is impossible to determine what is sitting on the top of my opponent's library (unless they've revealed the top card(s), of course). Therefore, I don't believe that there is any evidence that can support your claim that Mind Sculpt before Mind Grind has any benefit over Mind Grind before Mind Sculpt . If you don't agree with me, you could always playtest a hundred times or so, and see if you still get the same results.
February 23, 2013 10:55 a.m.
@ducttapedeckbox I'll play some games with it today and explain what I want to accomplish. I'll setup something like this:
Deck 1 (Game 1, 2, 3) (18-20 Land Deck)
Deck 2 (Game 4, 5, 6) (21-22 Land Deck)
Deck 3 (Game 7, 8, 9) (23-24 Land Deck)
Deck 4 (Game 10, 11, 12) (25+ Land Deck)
I'll have the opponent shuffle sufficiently, then I'll shuffle their cards and cut just like an event. Won't have any win conditions and I'll play with a controlled set of cards to test at roughly:
15% - 20% of deck
30% - 40% of deck
50% - 65% of deck
75%+ of deck
I'll make sure to note at each point:
-How many lands were in the graveyard
-How many lands in play
-Result of Mind Sculpt -> Mind Grind (x = 3 for control)
-Result of Mind Grind -> Mind Sculpt (x = 3 for control)
Sure we won't ever know what is in hand or layered in the deck, but I think we can hammer out a good vantage point of using one before the other; based on what is in the graveyard, in play and style of deck. (i.e. ramp, aggro, control, mid-range since you can usually approximate the land count)
February 23, 2013 11:20 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #24
Enyeto -- I've realized that I've been half-stupid. Although I don't agree that Mind Sculpt ing before Mind Grind has a direct impact on "clumps" of lands, I do acknowledge that Mind Sculpt ing first has the possibility of reducing the probability of revealing a land with Mind Grind , given that Mind Sculpt dumps at least one land into their grave. I look forward to hearing what you come up with!
February 23, 2013 12:20 p.m.
coffeemunster says... #25
Have you considered Essence Harvest ? It seems like it would be good in combination with Consuming Aberration .
ducttapedeckbox says... #1
I think my options for anti-mill in the sideboard are:
For one of those cards, I was thinking of dropping 1x Talrand, Sky Summoner and 1x Cyclonic Rift from the sideboard to adding 2x of one of the cards listed above (unless there's something else I'm missing).
February 22, 2013 10:09 a.m.