nobu_the_bard says... #2
Oh man just noticed you already had Maze of Ith on there. I don't know how I missed that.
The land count might also be a bit low. I'd try to push it up to 35-36 myself. I was finding myself mana screwed a little too often with an average CMC of 3 and only 35 lands on my Anax and Cymede, Hero EDH deck.
March 15, 2015 11:22 a.m.
BadPapaBear says... #3
You can take a look at my modern mill deck I have its not EDH but i am running black/blue and I see you already have some cards in there that I would mention but there some that might??.... Be of use to you in my deck you can look through and see... Mill Deck
March 15, 2015 11:43 a.m.
Some good dual lands for you are Jwar Isle Refuge, Tainted Isle, Temple of the False God (That name!), Dimir Guildgate
Hey there. Eater of the Dead has a combo with your commander.
You will want some synergistic removal, like King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
Nighthowler or Wight of Precinct Six get stronger the more you mill
Intruder Alarm goes amazingly with Undead Alchemist in a mill deck, especially in Phenax. Another good piece to this synergy is Altar of the Brood
Mesmeric Orb and Memory Erosion and Dreamborn Muse all are great, low cost mill engines.
Get rid of Grozoth. He is crazy expensive and you have nothing else in your deck that he can tutor for.
I run a Lazav mill deck that is a blast to play. Perhaps you could get some ideas from that?
Have fun, +1, and happy milling!
March 15, 2015 5:45 p.m.
Some consistent draw would benefit you aswell like Phyrexian Arena or Necropotence are ontop of my head. Black is great for this along with tutors. Since this deck has so much defense, the lifeloss is manageable and is probally worth giving yourself more options to play. Also find it hilarious to play vs a mill deck but that just my opinion.
March 15, 2015 6:12 p.m.
Celestrael says... #6
Thank you ecmmyers and goodair! Any suggestions for things I could cut other than Grozoth? I like a lot of the suggestions given, and I found another card a bit ago Profane Memento that I think could be beneficial as it would essentially give me unlimited life. Problem being that at this point, I have no idea what I should cut!
March 15, 2015 6:17 p.m.
Do you own any of the cards or have proxy versions? Honestly the best way is to play test and you will know what to cut. When a card is always stuck in your hand or you never want to play it, thats a sign to cut it.
March 15, 2015 6:22 p.m.
Nephalia Drownyard, Rhystic Study and Jace's Phantasm are so other cards to help make cutting cards harder for you lol. Have fun!
March 15, 2015 6:29 p.m.
Celestrael says... #9
I haven't acquired any cards on the list yet. There will be purchased en masse when I have a final draft prepared. In it's current incarnation, it's going to run me about $150 if I buy from TCG. Which I think is reasonable as hell for a 100 card deck. My standard deck (which isn't even super super competitive) cost me $160.
March 15, 2015 6:32 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #10
I would consider cutting Psychic Drain, the deck doesn't need manasinks and only milling X cards isn't going to make a huge difference compared to what you could be running in its slot, like Necropotence or Greed or Underworld Connections.
I would try the deck in few games to get some experience, paying attention what works and doesn't before making any cuts. I'd also want to watch all of those walls and see how effective they really prove; I'm hesitant to suggest cutting them because I like the idea but I don't know how practical it is in practice.
March 15, 2015 6:50 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #11
Also that card ecmmyers suggested, Eater of the Dead, is hilarious. I'd try to find room for him if it's possible to acquire one.
March 15, 2015 6:52 p.m.
I'd cut some of those vanilla walls like Murmuring Phantasm and Glacial wall.
Other stuff, like Ashiok are kind of bad in EDH, but they can be fun. They're bad because EDH is mainly a multiplayer game and Ashiok mainly hits one person, once a turn. If you ever mill something worth stealing, your opponent will be able to attack Ashiok before you can activate him again.
Same with Glimpse the Unthinkable. It is good in Modern, but not so much in EDH. It fills up a card slot and for that cost it only hits one single dude for less than 10% of their deck.
Brainfreeze is only good when you can build up storm, and I don't see any storm combos here.
I'd cut the gorgon for King Macar.
In EDH, you want to fill those single slots with as much value as possible, which means bigger effects, repeatable effects, and effects that hit everyone at once. Take from that what you will. It's just part of the transition from a one-on-one format to a multiplayer format that everyone has to learn to cope with eventually.
Hope that helps!
March 15, 2015 6:55 p.m.
Celestrael says... #13
Do you guys think it would be worthwhile to add Profane Memento for the nearly unlimited life that would be generated by milling and general game progress?
March 15, 2015 7:15 p.m.
Celestrael says... #14
Also could someone explain the utility/usage of Necropotence? It's been mentioned several times but I don't understand it.
March 15, 2015 7:32 p.m.
I mean, not really. It only triggers on creatures, and most decks run less than 20-25 of those. Also, even with unlimited life, you still lose to 21 commander damage. 40 starting life is generally enough for one game, and even then you should feel comfortable spending some of that on cards (eg, Erebos). Unless you face lots of aggro or tempo EDH decks, the memento doesn't further your strategy and there are more efficient life gain methods.
March 15, 2015 7:32 p.m.
With Necro, you skip your draw step each turn. Instead of this, you can pay any number of life to draw that many cards. So rather than the guaranteed one card per turn, you can pay ten life and draw ten cards!
In magic, cards are a much more valuable resource than life. There's a saying that the only life that matters is the last point.
March 15, 2015 7:36 p.m.
Celestrael says... #17
I see. I just think that unless I have a card that can remove Necropotence, it could end up burning up too much of my life then I have to stop drawing cards or risk killing myself. I think it would be okay if combined with a life-gainer that could compensate for all the life drained drawing cards.
March 15, 2015 7:40 p.m.
I agree with ecmmyers about the single player spells vs multi and reoccurring. Profane Memento is really iffy. It is dirt cheap to buy so go ahead and try it but it might not be as good you would expcect, depends on who your against. Necropotence pretty much draws you cards, but with a delay.
March 15, 2015 7:41 p.m.
Necro is good because it allows you to draw into a combo or another easily assembled win condition faster. If you don't have game-winning cards in such density that 10-15 activations of Necro don't win you the game, it's probably not worth it to you to run it.
March 15, 2015 7:46 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #20
Necropotence does a lot of things. It requires care to use properly, but it's very strong. You can end up with 7 cards in your hand at the end of your turn, every round. While it's in play, since you won't have normal draws anymore, you won't be able to be decked normally. It can start operating the turn you play it.
It also, as a side effect of how it operates, protects you somewhat from the sort of draw punishment that Grixis decks like Nekusar, the Mindrazer are fond of, since the cards aren't actually drawn, and many of Nekusar's baubles operate during your draw step (not all of them though).
March 15, 2015 7:50 p.m.
Well, it depends on how cometitive you want to be in teh end. EDH is a highly meta dependent format, so some groups don't want others comboing off every game. However,probably:
Duskmantle Guildmage plus Mindcrank
Bloodchief Ascension plus Mindcrank
Eater of the Dead plus Phenax
Undead Alchemist and Intruder Alarm / Altar of the Brood
an unblockable Consuming Aberration
A huge Aberration that you can repeatedly tap
And some other things..
March 15, 2015 8:28 p.m.
Celestrael says... #23
I'm extremely competitive, and want my decks to be. I think regardless of whether I have nasty game winning combos in the deck or not, the deck by it's nature is going to piss off other players. Which I planned for in it's design, to be able to withstand the inevitable singling out that's going to occur when I start burning the cards right out of their hands.
March 15, 2015 8:47 p.m.
Mill decks don't tend to be very competitive if that what you are really going for. They are more casual.
nobu_the_bard says... #1
Milling is a very risky strategy in EDH; it needs to hit hard and fast to succeed. It tends to draw high aggro- many players are disproportionately hostile to seeing their cards milling, they think "I could have drawn that!" and get irritated. Other decks like The Mimeoplasm are actually strengthened by your strategy. Some decks will include stuff like Kozilek, Butcher of Truth as "Mill Protection", so you'll need ways to deal with these somehow. So there's a lot of things to deal with.
I'm just going to throw stuff in my little post here and you can judge what suits you; since I list so many things I'm not going to mark them as suggestions because it'd make a huge mess (particularly as not all of this will suit you, I'm sure).
Defensively, there's stuff like Propaganda, Crawlspace, Koskun Falls to try to discourage attacks. Maybe Meekstone, since so many of your creatures have low power, it won't be as severe a disadvantage to you as to your opponents; however it's kind of "aggressive" compared to the Propaganda variants. Darkness and AEtherize can shut down an attacking army abruptly (at least temporarily). Some other tools you might look into that might be more expensive could be Maze of Ith, Mystifying Maze.
For milling, you might want to think about things like Jace's Archivist, who can double as hand disruption. He runs a risk of giving your opponents answers, but combined with reliable card draw (yours or opponents'!) he can move through decks very fast, particularly with untap tricks available. You might want Laboratory Maniac or Reliquary Tower if you bring the Archivist.
You should try to have some boardwipes. Cyclonic Rift is awesome, Decree of Pain is excellent, Wash Out does okay. I picked out a couple that would be less likely to disrupt your plans as much as possible since there's not much recursion in your deck.
Might also want to look at these: Psychic Spiral, Mesmeric Orb, Beacon of Unrest, Swiftfoot Boots, Freed from the Real, Tunnel Vision, Hinder, Jester's Cap, Lim-Dul's Vault
I'd cut Eternal Thirst; it's not really what the deck is trying to do, and it just makes whatever it's attached to Murder bait, in which case you're down both a creature and an aura. I'd also think about cutting Divination, Glimpse the Unthinkable, Pilfered Plans, Hidden Strings. I don't think they scale well (and cipher is more of an aggro thing) when you could have tricky things like Consecrated Sphinx, Notion Thief, Staff of Nin, and so forth. Large scale, reusable draw or alternate utility.
There's a handful of things that might be nearly straight upgrades available if you're so inclined: Cancel for Counterspell, Negate for Arcane Denial and so forth. When possible you want to avoid conditional counterspells; you don't know if the threat you face will be from Craterhoof Behemoth fueling an alpha strike or from Hinder + Tunnel Vision being fired at you.
You might want some mana rocks to try to speed things up. Dimir Signet, Talisman of Dominance, Mind Stone, Gilded Lotus, Commander's Sphere are some popular examples. There's more around if think those seem like a good idea.
Hope that gives you some ideas!
March 15, 2015 11:08 a.m.