Interesting. While in blue, why not Gifts Ungiven? I'd also run Snapcaster Mage too. Cool take on Rites!

BryanAnthony This isn't a gifts deck, gifts is way too slow and doesnt fit the synergy or theme well at all. This also is NOT an Unburial Rites deck, nor a polymorph deck, its a hybrid between the two to maximize synergy and effectiveness. I wish I could run Snapcaster Mage, but he interferes with the Polymorph...Same reason why I do not run Emrakul, he would be great for the Polymorph, but doesnt fit with the Rites plan. I have carefully chosen the creature package to be the most effective it could be. Thanks for the upvote and advice though!

I would comment more about deck ideas, but our thread is going strong on my deck page :) I like the different creatures you run as Polymorph end games. I know mine is more linear, but I like that it leaves more room for supporting spells. I'd run 1 emrakul if not for the chance of it being O-ringed or similar.

I feel That this deck is doing a lot of things slowly, whereas other decks are doing one of the things you deck is doing much more quickly. I strongly caution you to try to try one part of the deck. That being said, if you want to stay on the PolyRite plan, I have a few edits for you.

Do yourself a favour and ditch the Wurmcoil Engines. The only use they have is to be destroy it with Polymorph, and there is absolutely no reason why removing a Wurmcoil isn't good for your opponent. I have some suggestions to replace some cards, and here they are. Warning, this is re working your list a lot.

-2 Wurmcoil

-1 Sorin

-1 Inkwell

-4 Dispel

-2 Lilianna

-1 Souls

-1 Morph

+3 Gifts Ungiven

+1 Griselbrand

+1 Platinum Angel

+1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope

+4 Spell Pierce

+1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Really like this deck. Nice to see something that is possibly a little more consistent than Gifts Ungiven.

Have you considered Remand instead of Dispel? Or even Spell Snare? These seem to be a little bit more consistent counters that will hit more than just other counter spells. Also Remand helps you draw cards.

Since Polymorph and Unburial Rites are the main theme of your deck why not have 4 of each just for more consistency?

I'd have to agree with TheFoilAjani in getting rid of the Wurmcoil Engine when you have access to truly be playing much more powerful creatures. If you were to be playing two of any creature I'd suggest Inkwell Leviathan for its shroud.

Last suggestion would be instead of Ideas Unbound maybe look at See Beyond to shuffle any creatures drawn back into your deck so Polymorph can hit them more consistently. Although I guess it does help having Unburial Rites in there. Interesting thought for a deck I like it!

Pheardemons

Hey thanks! Let's discuss this a bit, I'll start by explaining some of my card choices...first off, I HAD both remand and mana leak in almost all of my previous builds, but felt like the proactive approach of hand disruption was much more effective, and having dispel not only stops counters from hitting my Unburial rites and polys, but also prevents lightning bolts and paths from removing my tokens before I can polymorph them..also they are good against burn which is a hard matchup. As for why I'm not running the full 4 of either rites or poly, there just isn't anything to come out, and also I don't really feel like it's needed tbh...3 or each is still pretty consistent. I run ideas unbound for the superior digging power, and also the discard outlet, for without it all I have is the 2 lilianas and a self thoughtseize. And last, as for the wurmcoils, I mainly had them in there for the life gain and the fact that they are the easiest fatty I can have that I can just hard cast if I need to, but I agree that inkwell is really good right now, and there might be another better bigger option...I'm just not exactly sure what it is yet.

Again thanks for the feedback, and if really enjoy any more you might have!

Serious question why hasn't Emrakul, the Aeons Torn been considered? I know he forces you to shuffle your graveyard, but you don't need to discard him. Not to mention he's a truly powerful force and probably the only true creature that can replace your Inkwell Leviathan. A lot of people will scoop if he's the creature you get with Polymorph. Not to mention a turn 4 emrakul. I can't think of a deck that can deal with that unless they've already started their combo.

I also just wanted to let you know I copied your deck and made some tweaks that I thought would help. I gave you full credit in the description, but also wanted to let you know it was there. Check it out when you get a chance to see if you feel it would be any good. Wait...how did that happen again?. I agree that Polymorph hasn't been given enough props that it deserves. My only assumption is because Gifts Ungiven is an instant so everyone thinks that it is so much better. Hope you don't mind that I used your deck as an inspiration to create my own version.

ok, sorry it's taken so long to reply, but I have a LOT to say lol, first off, the reason Emrakul is not in this deck is because it was very important to me to have the maximum amount of synergy possible, and the entire point of the deck is to run BOTH Unburial Rites AND Polymorph for that purpose, and Emrakul ruins that plan...don't get me wrong, I have considered him as a sideboard option off and on.

As for the deck copy, it's very flattering and of course I do not mind! However, if you want my honest opinions on it, here they are:

1. and most important, you have completely changed the theme and idea of the deck, into what seems to be simply an Esper type polymorph thing, and there are many other better ways to build a "successful" Polymorph deck.

2. using the proteus staff in this meta right now where Kolighans command is main decked everywhere is rough!

3. I too considered Bitterblossom, as it's one of my favorite cards, but in this deck, the land base and the Thoughtseizes kill us way too fast to include something like this...though I acknowledge that you maindecked Timely Reinforcements (another of my all time favorites!) to try and negate this a bit, I feel it is just too painful, and timely is better suited for the board while leaving slots for more lingering souls main- deck.

4. by running all the counters, I feel you don't have enough token producers or ways to dig to find them or your Polys, though I do see how you would want to just leave open counter mana to protect the poly or token from getting killed in response, i think it's a little too slow...it's why I run 4 Dispel and that's it.

5. and last, here is a deck list of someone I was helping for an emrakul Polymorh esper deck...it's his deck, but in the comments I gave a lot of advice and suggestions. if you feel that Emrakul is the way you want to go, I highly reccomend taking a look and playing with it a bit from there to see if you like it, but My PolyRites is MUCH more consistent...other than all tht, I really appreciate everything and I look forward to brewing more with you! maybe we can make this deck even better!

Emrakul the ploymorphist

Well first off thank you for the analysis. It's nice to actually have someone who can argue in modern and have knowledge to back it up. Secondly I changed the theme to 1) not be a complete copy of your deck and 2) Reanimate is everywhere in almost ever format I just wanted to see a change (from my perspective. Reanimate was the first casual deck I ever created).

Last I disagree with the point of being able to dig through the deck. I have 7 ways of card draw card which equals 10 cards total. Not to mention thinning of the deck with 8 fetchlands. Also with enough counters and disruption to keep the game going until I at least draw one of the 5 cards I use in the deck. However, I definitely will acknowledge your deck being more consistent with both Polymorph and Unburial Rites.I do believe Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is a more consistent win condition than the other cards. Somewhat of a trade-off I guess. Also I saw my advantage to finally make a deck with Emrakul.

One great thing of Magic is simply the perspective. Your deck is fantastic and I simply changed it a bit to what I thought would be great and a way I wanted to see the cards played. Thank you for your analysis. I will definitely take another look at my deck and see what can be fixed, and maybe I'll just get over my reanimate burn-out and curve it to look more like the original. Happy playing and building. Expect me to send some decks your way for analysis!

Absolutely! I'll look forward to them, you can add me to your friends if you'd like. Also, if you REALLY want an Emrakul deck, I have a brew that I worked on for years and put what seems like thousands of hours into testing to get perfect and consistent...

Expected Results

Take a look and run a couple test plays..you can usually mulligan down to 3 and still be good as long as you have a way to dig or ramp

I think Gifts Ungiven could work. If you're looking to reanimate big creatures from your graveyard, you could always just use Gifts Ungiven to search for a single card therefore your opponent must put it in the graveyard. You could also try playing Goryos vengence and Griselbrand. I know those 2 cards are a combo for it's own deck but it seems like what you're trying to do. Unburial Rites I'm not high up on because the creature may just die unless it's Inkwell Leviathan.

I feel the list is strong and the consistency is there but the main concern I have it how you counteract graveyard hate? You would have fairly difficult time vs living end from my understanding of your build. But a deck that just drops a layline of the void and keeps your board clean simply can then start to knick away at your life total. I fear your back up plan should be slidding into a traditional esper control when the combo peices are being sided agaisnt

Okay- Here's some ideas. They may not all work, and they may not be able to be implemented at the same time, but one or more might point you in a good direction.

I think Ideas Unbound plus Rites and Polymorph is a pretty interesting way to go about this, especially when you can also pitch Lingering Souls. But, I think the mix of key cards isn't right. Rites really depends on Ideas being played first, so I'd run 4X ideas, 4X Polymorph, and 2-3X Rites- which is really better late in the game anyway. And Poly depends on tokens, so 1-2 more token producers might help consistency. Alternatively, you could also run a few more cards that let you pitch your hand but I don't think you have room.

I think you should cut Sorin and mainboard 2X Bitterblossom, or even maybe Raise the Alarm. Your deck currently has 3X good turn 2 plays and wants cards that fit the curve at the 2-mana spot. Blossom slows your opponent down, gives you more consistent Poly targets, and fits the curve. Sorin is good, but Blossom fits better. You can board it for Reinforcements where the life loss is a problem.

Tar Pit is awesome, but you might consider Mutavault. You can activate vault and cast Polymorph targeting vault on the same turn if need be - but I really think that's only useful if you don't mainboard Blossom or other token producers.

Dispel is good, but it's really only good for protecting the combo or (sometimes) protecting the creature you drop. Against many decks (primarily aggro), you don't have to worry about a counter, and only have to worry about certain removal spells. In those cases, you'd often rather use the counter to disrupt your opponent, particularly on turns 2 or 3 when you're setting up- and Dispel isn't great at that. And again, 2 drops are important because of the curve and because math. So you might sideboard 2X Dispel for Control and Midrange matches, and mainboard some Mana Leak and/or Remand or other counters that hit creatures (or more than just instants, anyway), plus do what Dispel does. Also, better counters makes you waaaay better against combo decks, because they don't always rely on instants (in fact, most don't).

I know you don't want to run Emrakul, and that's fine. But your finishers are underwhelming. I think Iona is a sieboard candidate, and Leviathan isn't that awesome. Wurmcoil Engine is good, but not always game-ending. You might consider Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Griselbrand, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, or Akroma, Angel of Wrath. You also don't have to stick with Esper colors. You can drop Worldspine Wurm or Terastodon if you so choose. Another direction you might consider if you mainboard more token producers is mainboarding Titan and/or Elesh Norn, and just winning with big, flying tokens in aggro matches (you should definitely keep that as a sideboard strategy, and maybe even consider a couple Intangible Virtue on the side as well).

I think generally, your deck doesn't look tuned for a largely midrange/aggro meta. That's what you'll face at least 40% of the time, and cards that aren't good in those matches shouldn't be on the mainboard for the most part. You can hedge with some mainboard stuff that's better against control or combo, as long as it's not totally dead against creature-based strategies.

Last point, and this has nothing to do with the deck: I've used T/O for around a year, and just finally got around to upgrading my account, which I thought was fair enough after a year of frequent use. The minimum cost to upgrade is $5, or about $90 less than a single Liliana of the Veil. I don't think everyone should upgrade as soon as they start using the site, or that everyone necessarily need upgrade at all, but when you claim you can't afford it while asking for help on a deck worth more than $700, you sound like an ass.

I hope that stuff is useful. Best of luck.

Wizard_of_the_BrokeFirst of all, thank you. I'll start at the bottom and work my way up...As for sounding like an ass etc..I started playing Magic in 1996, and over the years have accumulated a very valuable collection through trades etc and so forth. I am now married with 2 children and haven't spent or been able to spend money on cards for a few years, with all my recent acquires being trades. basically what I'm saying is I don't have money, just equity, and all the cards I have left I actually use. Hopefully that clears that up.

Second, I'm not sure really whether I agree or disagree with you on my finishers...it's funny because I fee the Wurmcoils are the weakest and yet they are the only ones you liked lol. I don't see how any you mentioned are better than what I have (aside from the big green fatties you named possibly).

Next, for the longest time I ran mana leak and remands, but they were so slow and underwhelming and I never was able to protect my polymorph targets with them...I understand the majority of the meta is not control, but it's not opposing counter spells I'm worried about, it's the over abundance of lightning bolt and other said removals that target my tokens in response to being named as a poly target.

As for moving bitterblossoms to the main, I thought about it before, but I feel like it's smarter to bring it in post board after my opponent sides out his spell snares and things...but I could be absolutely wrong too.

And last, Mutavault was also in my original list over the tar pits for the exact reason you mentioned. But the colorless mana really sucked and I like the tarpit more for longer games when I can swing in with him and such...

Anyway, thank you for all the advice, I may have some reworking to think about...but if you have any more, keep it coming, it really helps!

So obviously you either missed or ignored my previous comment, so the is mk2.

Firstly, I know you don't want this to be a Gifts Ungiven deck, but you would get so much out of it. Grab it and 3 reanimator targets and you always can grab something, hopefully for game.

I think Wurmcoil Engine needs to go. It doesn't do much if you hit it with Polymorph, and removing a Wurmcoil is always good for your opponent.

I think your reanimator/morph package should be Obzedat, Ghost Council, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Griselbrand, and Akroma, Angel of Wrath. Obzedaddy is a Siege Rhino, Elesh is a board wipe, Griselbrand refuels your hand, and Akroma quickly goes for the kill. As said before, you finishers just don't do a lot. The creatures I stated have very strong effects. They are even stronger with one or two Gifts.

I think Polymorph isn't doing enough, in this build. As stated before by Wizard_of_the_Broke, more Bitterblossoms would help. Also, BitBos gives you a clock to close a game out and works great with an Elesh.

TheFoilAjani hey yeah, I must have just not noticed your previous comment! I'm starting to lean towards removing the wurmcoils, but i dont know if i agree with you on the creatures you mention for the package...obzedat could be cool i guess, and elesh is great main especially if i do decide to go wit BB...Griselbrand is too painful as this deck hurts itself and takes damage fairly quick already, i get he has lifelink, but it would be hard to use his ability and get a swing in. akroma is nice for the haste, but otherwise dies to Path,,,which is seriously the biggest problem with all my targets except for Inkwell...and i dont understand what you mean in your very last paragraph about polymorph?

I have a similar MTG background, and I sympathize (the name isn't just a play on words). I was just pointing out that your forum post didn't quite add up. No worries.

On the finishers: The life gain in aggro matchups is what makes Engine work for me, and I have no idea what FoilAjani means by "removing is always good for opponent," since making two new creatures is actually a huge problem for the opponent. Lifelink is a good tool to have consistently in a deck that is going to lose more life than it takes through the early game. I do understand that spending a polymorph on a 6 mana guy seems less than optimal, but wurmcoil's value for mana cost is way above average. If you want to ditch it, it's not the end of the world, but I think there are aspects of it that would need replacing.

Iona is good, but she doesn't always stop removal. She also can't do much about creatures your opponents have already cast, which are often going to be a leading issue on turn 4. Inkwell is fine, but will probably need to swing 3 times to win games (at least where non-blue decks are concerned), and your life total will already be diminished by the time you get him out. The point is, you'll likely be behind by the time you morph up a big creature, and Iona and Inkwell don't seem like great come-from-behind creatures to me.

Grisel gets you lifelink, which is great if you're down, and drawing a ton of cards or eliminating your opponent's hand (like core augur) are along the same lines. You can instantly swing the game around in either case, just by drawing a new hand- you're likely to find an answer to whatever your opponent is doing, and a way to put more pressure on them.

Same with Elesh Norn and Titan- they completely take over the board and affect the game state in important ways other than just threatening a big attack next turn.

That's all just food for thought, but that's why I suggested you take a look at your finishers.

when I really think about it though...how common IS Path to Exile? not many of the top decks except junk run it am I right? should I even care about it? i could just run a threat or two in the board with shroud like leviathan etc for those matchups yes? am i missing somethin?

awesome man, so i have to say that i agree completely with most everything you are saying...I added the Wurmcoils because i needed the life gain and something to affect board state and bring me back from behind! i almost always was hoping to morph into one and was dissapointed when i hit iona or inkwell as neither could save me. my issue with griselbrand is that while i can immediately use his ability, it HURTS a LOT and if im already low on life, im dead...and his lifegain requires that he does get killed immediately, and with the lack of creatures in my deck, its not hard to assume most opponents will have plenty of removal handy. and as for Gin, hes good in legacy reanimator, but in modern he is just not near good enough...i drop him and he has to survive until my end step...which he usually wont :(I am however considering moving iona to the board and bringing in elesh and grave titans main... possiblt replacing the sorins for BB? i dont know

The problem with purposely splitting a Wirmcoil is that Wurmcoil loses what makes it's value so strong. It basically protects itself from non-path removal. By splitting, you don't even get to have the opponent burn a spell or two killing the Coil. Now a Lightning Bolt totally screw a wurm up. Also, Wurmcoils aren't a creature you really want to reveal off of a Polymorph. I can understand playing it a a one-of.

As for the reanimator targets I mentioned, Obzedaddy does much more than you would think. For one, it gives some lifegain and a bt of damage. Two, it's body is real good. Three, it dodges sorcery speed removal and can repeat it's life drain. I had to play against one a couple weeks ago and it's difficult to deal with.

Griseldad basically gives you the capability to refill after a reanimate. The problem with these types of decks is that they run out of fuel. Griselbrand helps avoid that.

Elesh is the type of creature a reanimator deck needs. It holds off aggro, pumps your tokens, and can do some damage on it's own. She is the reason you run Gifts. Because when you have run oht of options and the aggro has you down, just grab a boardwipe.

Akroma dodges the best removal colour and the third best one. White isn't actually played much in modern compared to R or B if you look at decks. Mostly it's stuck as a support colour. If you ignore that, think about it this way. Akroma dies to Path. You know what kill Leviathan? Day of Judgment, or Wrath of God. Damnation does the same job and is played more. Carss you have as your wincons are either better sideboard material or not worthy targets.

Tl:dr, don't assume removal will always hit. Play smart, not scared. Dies to removal isn't as relevant as "does this win me the game".

agreed with all...except i never use my wurmcoil as a poly target...??? thats just stupid lol

I've been reading other comments and they all been saying very valid points that I completely agree i such as TheFoilAjani's comments on what to change.Wizard_of_the_Broke also made very good points for what should be done to make the deck leaner and faster. So my real concern is what is wrong with testing these changes? I feel like their comments are what I would suggest because their not wrong in the sence an iona doesn't shut down a game like elshnorn will. Yes iona stops a color but jund doesn't care when it has 2 other colors of removal for her. Especially if you name the wrong color. Iona simply doesn't deal with an already present board state that is going to end the game. While the same is with Akroma the difference is she had more resilence and can attack the turn she comes into play. And if your so focused on both poly and unburial rights where is Stinkweed Imp? That guy feeds both plans very effectively with being a good removal target and woth dredge making him recurable while also helping fill your yard for unburial and a win con.

But please take the suggestions that had been made prior because the way the deck is currently built it will not sustain itself versus combo and aggro effectively. It needs more balance in the mainboard for unknown match ups and the sideboard to sift into the proper specific awnsers

First of all, this is an awesome deck. I love the idea of Liliana in reanimator, and adding polymorph seems like a cool secondary win condition. However, I do feel that your creature base needs some work, and have a few qualms with unburial rites. While grave Titan is indeed insane, I'd rather reanimate something else. Inkwell Leviathan, Jin-Gitaxas, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, etc would be better. I'd like to know exactly why you're not playing gifts, not saying it's wrong though. I'd up the lilis and change your reanimation targets. I just don't feel polymorphing into a grave Titan is good enough in this meta.