Now these are the kind of control decks I like to see. Grixis adds a nice twist to any control deck. Having R/B in the mix allowing you to abuse your opponents hand via Thoughtseize , Slaughter Games and Rakdos returns makes shutting down wincon incredibly easy. This would be rather cruel to play against. If only Tamiyo, the Moon Sage were still in standard, she would fit so much nicer then Ral Zarek

Yeah, he really isn't that relevant for this deck. He does add a little bit of control with the tapping/untapping as well as the burn which can be used a removal. I just feel that Planeswalkers are too huge in the current meta not to run him.

Try and find something to replace him. Considering you have no permanents of your own besides AEtherling to untap you will most likely be untapping your opponents permanents. If you insist on running a planeswalker in his place I would run Jace, Memory Adept over him at least.

With Ral Zarek, you can untap any permanent. Lands being permanents as well. Since this is a control deck, more land to counter/remove is always an excellent thing.

Ultimate Jace, Memory Adept and then Monstrosity Stormbreath Dragon ?? Longshot but wildly hilarious.

Are you talking about Jace, Architect of Thought ? In that case, you're right. It's a pretty big longshot. Most of the time I won't be +1ing Jace unless I'm being beat down by opponents creatures and I'm trying to stall until I can wipe.

No he is talking about Jace, Memory Adept ult draws 20 cards, Stormbreath Dragon monstrosity deals damage equal to the number of cards in hand. Funny I never thought of that.

Oh right! Totally forgot about that one, guess it is possible. It would as he said be pretty brutal to pull off. But honestly the person I'm playing might have to quit Magic altogether if I pull something ridiculous like that off. Haha.

the beauty of running black in a control shell is all the great removal you have available, I would throw in some doomblades and downfalls for sure

I don't think you really need to add Hero's Downfall . I see that mostly for decks that can't run Dreadbore . You have plenty of removal and disruption, and evenly dispersed. If you add in more removal it might lead to some bad first games before you side things in. I'd stick with what you have so far. I know the instant speed is nice, but I really don't see you having to worry about that

Thanks for the thoughts LessOffensive and MistaMint! I do always like the thought of more removal, but after reviewing a couple things I think I actually might not add it solely because I have to deal with the Gods in the current meta. Which more removal doesn't help with. So I think I'm gonna stick with the Rifts so I can bounce if needed to follow up with a counter next time they try to play it.

What do you think about my Planeswalkers? I run Ashiok in my Esper control and he actually compliments it really well with the whole creature theft, so I thought I'd give him a shot in this deck too. Jace is a no-brainer in any control deck. Card draw and aggro shutdowns. Now for Ral Zarek, I'm a little iffy on him. I mean he's great because he has that built in 3 damage which can be helpful. Also untaps my lands so that I can play more spells which never hurts. Thoughts?

I think the walkers are pretty solid. You've got a good mix and they'll do some work for you. I'm trying to develop a B/W deck right now and I'm looking for advise. Not sure which direction I want to go, leaning towards buffed/doublestrike/lifegain Double Stuffed Oreos

I think you should do 4 Hero's Downfall in place of 2 Cyclonic Rift and 2 Frostburn Weird .

It's better to remove creatures/planeswalkers, rather than bounce them back to the library and Frostburn Weird can't destroy much unless it dies also.

You will get a lot of creatures for chump blocking with Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver

I already have 4 Dreadbore I don't see the point in also running 4 Hero's Downfall .

It's just better removal compared to cyclonic rift and frostburn weird?

Instant speed spells are just better over all Hero's Downfall may cost 1 more mana but it was better potential to 2 for 1 such as catching Rancor (I know it's not standard but only one I could think of) or or save you from a hasty creature. It's just that if I personally feel that if you wanna run counterspells you want most of your noncreature spells to be instant speed that way the control feel is fluent rather than having to wait for your turn to do anything. Then having to tap out do to the opponent overrunning you with pressure.

@Magiclover318 Cyclonic rift is great for removal. Since I don't have access to Supreme Verdict or any strong boardwipes aside from Anger of the Gods , it's overload can really come in handy. And as for the Frostburn Weird he's a good early game blocker. He may not be dealing heavy damage or anything, but he's there to keep my life totals up since I have zero lifegain in Grixis colours.

@Bytme I understand where you're coming from with the whole instant speed. I love Hero's Downfall I run it in any control deck that has black, unless red is also a colour in the deck. I believe Hero's Downfall is mostly for decks that do not have access to Dreadbore like an W/U/B or U/B control deck. I'd also like to try and stay away from having too many spells that are 2 of x mana. I already have enough of them as is.

i guess Rakdos Charm is also useful against Assemble the Legion in UWR and Elspeth, Sun's Champion in the other UWX control builds

Yeah. Rakdos Charm is useful in those matchups, as well as the decks that use the graveyard like mono black whipping back Gary, shuts down a late game Scavenging Ooze or Deathrite Shaman making them less of a hassle.