What are you targeting with Trait Doctoring?

Smokethulhu you tag Momir ofc. It serves the same purpose as the other "hack" cards

Right, I misread the card lol. Thanks for the speedy response!

Would you pull Nature's Claim in favor of Force of Vigor ? Or play both, in which case what do you recommend dropping?

My IRL Momir deck lacks Cradle so I made it a little more controlling. I was already running both Claim and Natural State , so swapping out State for Force of Vigor seemed really good.

Are Llanowar Tribe , Collector Ouphe , or Force of Negation from Modern Horizons, or Leyline of Abundance from Core set 2020 worth considering?

I sense the Painter's Servant unban will be good for Hackball?

I'm 2 cards short of the $220 list, but will this change the winds of rebuke to a painters servant/grindstone finish?

Is Finale of Devastation in here as a second Green sun or is it a new combo piece, also is Neoform just a toolbox spell or used in a new combo line?

Drathro
Force of Vigor is pretty nice, but I am a little suspicious of it. Swapping out State seems fine in budget, but I'd leave Nature's Claim in so you can grab it with Spellseeker, or have a reliable solution to removal.

ChrisNicolella
Yes, Yes, No, No

Dango
Very

RXPK
Grindstone won't be part of the deck, but Painter's Servant will. Finale, Winds, and Swan Song are the wincons.

MKFisher95
Finale of Devastation is for value (getting Collector Ouphe , Priest of Titania , Painter's Servant , etc.). It also acts as a wincon thanks to the buff + haste, and recursion, since you can find it with Spellseeker for some extra mid-line recursion, if need be.

AverageDragon - Great deck and fantastic primer! I play a $1000 budget version of your list and really like the deck. With your recent updates - as far as I can see - the play stile itself doesn't change to much, but the combos and recoveries does. Is there a chance for an update on this primer ?

I just noticed the edit from after painter's unban and I'm eager to try out "new" Momir. I see that you've listed swan song as a win con. Sorry if I'm missing it, but without scepter, how do we go about winning with Swan Song?

Further to my above post, how do we redraw winds of rebuke to mill the table without heart warden?

I haven't yet figured out the lack in the current list of either Heart Warden or Elvish Visionary to draw cards post mana combo. However, assuming you have Heart Warden, you win with Swan Song by recycling Swan Song and any spell it can counter. Once you've countered enough of your own spells, you give them all haste with Finale of Devastation and attack.

Does this deck have an alternative WinCon??

ElGatix I'm not the deckbuilder, but the deck has multiple wincons. If something gets exiled you can use Riftsweeper to get it back. You can use Finale of Devastation for a massive attack. And failing that, you can use swan song to make infinite swans. And again failing that, you can loop Winds of Rebuke with Nantuko Tracer to mill everyone out.

Wont you mill out with glimpse of nature

How good is beast whisperer it seems like another vizier of the menagerie

Hey, would you mind updating the primer for the "Winning by Mill" section? You've taken out Heart Warden and Scavenging Ooze.

Is the new wincon just generate infinite mana cast enough creatures to get around all the blockers than finale of devastation x equals grahams number? then swing? Or is it recur winds of rebuke? Spellseeker instead of heart warden to tutor up the wincon spell with nantuko tracer putting the spell back in your deck. I guess either of those work right?

I feel running Walking Ballista is a good Plan A win Con because it can be fetched out and it wins before Combat, this is important because if Walking Ballista gets countered you can still go to plan B on the same turn with Swan Song Finale Combo or Just casting finale, The winds of rebuke combo is alright but I personally dont like that game plan so that will be my plan C

Plan A Walking Ballista Pre Combate Plan B Swan Song Finale Combo at Combate Plan C Winds of Rebuke Mill (Not a go-to but the deck can do it)

So these plans can let you win 3 different ways in 3 different phases rather than getting stuck if it fails.

I dont know about drawing but the deck in a way can fetch all creatures (with Momir)and all spell but force of will (with spellseeker) so I dont play glimpse of nature but i do play Elvish Visionary just in case i do need to draw

I wonder what you guys think

Glimpse of Nature isn't draw power, it's another hack. You stack its trigger so that Momir happens first so you tutor the next piece then draw it off Glimpse. When comboing off, you prevent yourself from decking out by casting GSZ X=0 between dudes.

Hello! I really like the deck. Although I was wondering why play Mana Leak over Pact of Negation or even Force of Negation?

Also what's your opinion on that new free counterspell they showed off Fierce Guardianship

Why Heart Warden and Nantuko Tracer instead of Elvish Visionary and Temur Sabertooth? Is it just for the mana and shuffle? I feel like there's better things you could do with the open slot, idk.

thoughts on kinnan?