cheeseycrackers

I would definitely not replace Wayfarer with Expedition Map. Run both Wayfarer and Land Tax rather than either or. I agree with alexjustdoit that Wayfarer is better than the map.

I actually meant Wayfarer's Bauble and even confused myself lol

Hey Seabody

Indeed my deck Here include Arcbond, Blasphemous Act and Rolling Earthquake.

I haven't added Molten Disaster because i wanted to include Torment of Hailfire (I know it will not work with repercussion but it work with Wound Reflection).

Maybe i could use Master of Cruelties without Master Warcraft or Rogue's Passage and surprise other players, but i fear that on end game it will not be feasible within my playgroup, i might try.

What do you think of my decklist: Here ?

Hey Eloniel,

Your list looks pretty solid to me! I know Vampire Nighthawk seems subpar in EDH but it's quite good in this deck. Deters attacks, gains us life and steak back the Monarchy if needed. Other than that the only other suggest I would have is Pyroblast or REB - they are such a beating against blue.

Searchlight and Chimes are likely better as signets/talismans - but I could see the political argument for running them and I'd imagine they are fun.

I love love love this list, was a massive fan of the original and have my own, more budget (relatively) and a touch more casual, list. I have a couple of questions, if you have the time to answer.

Is their a list of updates for this available, maybe I am missing them but I'm sure this has been updated since i first saw it and would love to see your reasons behind the updates.

I would also love to hear your thoughts on Irencrag Pyromancer and Skyline Despot as wincons in a slightly more pillowfort version of the deck?

Thanks

Hey Openil - I have been making some somewhat minor changes here and there as I'm testing a couple options, and one more major change, so I haven't changed the primer yet.

Most important - this shell has undergone some changes since I last tested Ad Nauseam + Sickening Dreams combo, so the most major change was me slotting those two as well as bringing Children of Korlis Fire Covenant and Phyrexian Unlife back into the fold. I tested 30 games and took notes/winrates, and now am taking ad naus / sickening dreams / children of korlis out for a couple instants/aikido cards and am going to test another 30 games. This is a more major change in the sense that having this combo slotted changes the way you pilot the deck since you know that the combo is relatively easy to get to and so it affects a lot of the decisions you make.

Aside from that, I'm currently testing Harsh Justice, Scroll Rack, Drannith Magistrate, and depending on when you last looked, at one point I also added Land Tax, Sensei's Divining Top, Scheming Symmetry, (all three of which have been great and are here to stay), and took out Frontier Warmonger before I even tested it really since it seemed slow and I needed the slot. To make room for some of these cards being tested, I've been adjusting my instants package and taking out things like Mirage Mirror (tough cut) and No Mercy (less useful pillowfort and perhaps redundant/high costed).

I think that should cover it. Anything specific you're wondering about?

As for Irencrag Pyromancer and Skyline Despot, I'll start with Pyro.

I think this one might a little dangerously narrow, though you may be able to get away with it if you pillowfort really hard and consistently, since in order to get value off of this you'll have to pretty much make sure you never lose monarch after casting Queen Marchesa, because otherwise you just played it for nothing. Of course, this also depends on how many other draw effects you have, so if you have a bunch I think it's safer. But overall, the opportunity cost of cutting a card for this on top of it potentially doing nothing in a non-insignificant number of scenarios makes me hesitant.

Now, Skyline Despot. I think this is more ok, but I definitely think if you slot this you should treat it as a wincon/bomb and swap it in for one of your existing bombs, and I also think you should fully expect it to eat removal and result in a 7 mana "cast to regain monarch" since it has to survive a whole turn cycle for you to even get one 5/5 token. So, depends on your meta, but similar to Irencrag Pyro, I think it is best to consider the worst case scenario (unless worst case scenario is just super unlikely).

Hey alexjustdoit thanks for going though the changes and giving your thoughts on the cards. I think i get into a lot of situations where I can't die but i can't win, the games can stall out for easily 10 or so turns with me and the last person trading removal and them deploying new threats and me new pillowforting cards, I run Phyrexian Unlife which can make Ad Nauseam a lot better, although I wasn't running Sickening Dreams so i cut ad, maybe i should get hold of a sickening dreams and put ad nauseam back in.

At the risk of posting back to back can I also ask your thoughts on Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Coffers, and Debt to the Deathless. the first 2 interact well with Weathered Wayfarer and debt goes well with that interaction and Smothering Tithe I also think an earlier debt for even 3 to 5 is still significant.

Thanks again.

Openil I think playing Urborg + Cabal in a 3-color deck is a mistake. Even in some two color decks I find it questionable. I don't think you'll be able to fetch the two lands often enough to make it worth it, especially since we aren't in green, and even then your only real payoff for it is Debt. We are reactive enough that generating mass amounts of mana isn't that great for us, unless you run more permanents, a higher curve, and / or X spells. Pretty much the only way for you to get Urborg and Cabal is Wayfarer.

Thanks alexjustdoit Makes a lot of sense, I think I will include Urbog still as a fixer and in place of a swamp, but won't worry about picking up a cabal coffers, and i'll consider cutting debt when I get hold of some upgrades

Hi, you should really consider this brand card that is even better with solemnty synergy:

"Cryptic Masterpiece" Tap, Put a page counter on ~: scry 1 2, Tap, Put a page counter on ~: draw 1 Whenever ~ has 4 or more page counters on it, exile it. If you do, gain 4 life.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/718118564057448449/718769435204255744/IMG_20200606_121259.jpg

And of course, also: Mangara, the Diplomat

Hey Eloniel - that card doesn't do anything with Solemnity.

2017-07-14: If the cost of an ability or an additional cost of a spell requires putting counters on an artifact, creature, enchantment, or land, that cost can’t be paid. If a resolving spell or ability says that a player may put counters on one of those objects, that player can’t choose to do so.

Putting a counter on Cryptic Masterpiece is part of the cost, so you just won't be able to activate it at all.

Mangara, the Diplomat on the other hand is amazing. I’ll be picking one up once it drops from hype price.

I'm really digging this list - feels very stylistic which I love. Would love to hear your thoughts on the following cards, and your experiences with them:

Drannith Magistrate - does this ever not get immediately removed or have everyone focus you?

Scheming Symmetry - I haven't even considered running this - just seems like it helps your opponent much more than yourself. Curious as to how it performs for you.

Hushbringer - I have wanted this in my list so many times, but as it often shutdowns a path to regain the Monarch I have been endlessly putting it in and taking it out.

Older20

Drannith and Hushbringer often slow down opponents for a few turns, then eat removal. I'm okay with that. We're in mardu, we need the help as far as tempo goes. While they stick on the field, sometimes it attracts attention. But it's not overt unless you're making other splashes as well. They're not "threatening" in the sense that you will get targeted too much, just annoying, so once they're removed, players focus elsewhere. They both shut down a ton of cards/decks, either directly (Yarok or GY decks) or by collateral damage. I only run two ETB creatures (Marchesa and Bruse) so I don't mind Hushbringer. Just don't play it T2.

Scheming Symmetry - I have lots of cards that synergize intensely with other cards, so I'm always wanting to cram tutors. I usually grab either Sunforger, a combo piece/wincon, or sometimes a stax piece like Drannith or Hushbringer if I really really need it, and already have Sunforger etc. I usually give the other half of the tutor to either the stompy player, the player most behind (as long as they're not playing combo), or use it to broker a deal ("don't attack me with your Kozilek", "I'll give it to you if you use it to get removal for [insert card that is currently terrorizing the table]", etc). Has worked pretty well. Except once I cast it T2 and gave it to the benign looking selesnya token deck only for him to combo off the next turn into Devoted Vizier combo haha. So maybe don't cast it early (unless you really really need to like I did) so that you have a better sense for what decks your opponents are playing, or more leverage to make a deal.

Chandra's Incinerator is a no brainer for me.

Fiery Emancipation is a win more card. In a ping damage deck (like my feather deck) it could be useful for a quick win. But for this deck i really don't think it would worth cutting something else.

Eloniel - I also have concerns about Emancipation being win more, but its only one more mana than wound reflection, gives back up if wound reflection is removed, an extra slot so that its easier to draw into, and doubles our reach for a lot of our wincons even past what wound reflection is capable. The triggers also go on the stack immediately, preventing the scenario where wound reflection is removed before end of turn and the damage/life lost is never doubled, usually resulting in our opponent(s) not dying (this has happened to me often, as my meta actually plays interaction). It might be a bit win more, in that yes wound reflection exists already, but I think the pros outweigh that. It's only 1 mana more (still cheaper than Gisela!), and doubles down on something we're already trying to do, making us basically 50% more likely to draw it (since you're not normally going to burn a tutor on a wound reflection unless you're sitting pretty flush).

As a quick note: Both Wound Reflection and Fiery Emancipation have the same CMC.

General thoughts: Wound Reflection picks up on your opponents' fetch lands and shocklands and, most importantly, the damage or loss of life your opponents inflict on each other. It doesn't necessarily rely on you actively doing anything.

Fiery Emancipation telegraphs pretty loudly and you have to be the instigator, but the payoff if you get to 'do your thing' will be pretty insane. I'm definitely thinking of running it as I have a vision of Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder equipped with a Sword of War and Peace connecting with someone's face. Glorious.

Older20 - woops, misremembered Wound Reflection's cmc somehow!

Another note about using Wound Reflection as a political/pillowfort tool. I posted this in Discord earlier so I'll just copy/paste.

when i first started playing the deck i always thought wound reflection would fall into the category of cards "things that give opponents outsized impact if they direct their power elsewhere, incentivizing them to swing at my opponents instead of me" but i think like 60% of the time its actually "we're all fucked except for Queen Marchesa, someone get rid of it". tho, its not that high on the totem pole of things that need to get removed asap. but i dont think it incentivizes infighting as much as i originally thought it would when i first started playing this deck.

With that being said, wound reflection and fiery emancipation then serve much the same purpose in my mind: giving our wincons some insane reach to close out the game once we decide to go for the kill. They are not really "play it out and sit back" cards, they will both draw attention, both are "scary". It is true that wound reflection amplifies opponents attacks/damage, and emancipation does not, but in practice this does not matter most of the time.

Unless you are playing in a meta that does not play interaction. Then sure, if no one is going to remove your wound reflection or care about it, things will play out differently. But playing wound reflection usually telegraphs a similar message of "I am about to do something big" in other player's minds, regardless of our actual intent for using the card (like I said, it was originally meant to be more political/pillowfort-y)

Ibcan understand your statement alexjustdoit but then i think you should use Furnace of Rath instead. Yes it could do you damage but we have lot of way to prevent them, it affect opponents that deals damages to each others and it cost 2 less.

New interesting card: Spoiled on Magic c'est Chic : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN9K35Z0170

Soubira, Caravaneer of the Tulzidi 2R

Legendary creature : Human and Shaman

Haste

1 : Another creature with power 2 or less can't be blocked this turn

1R, tap, discard your hand : Until end of turn, whenever a creature with power 2 or less you control deals combat damage to a player, draw a card

Could be used to get back monarch, to help opponents get through and synergize with Master of Cruelties and Grenzo, Havoc Raiser

Eloniel - I've definitely thought about Furnace of Rath (I play it in K&T in lieu of Wound Reflection). But I still hold out hope for being able to play wound reflection a turn cycle or two early instead of always dropping it right before a kill. I dunno, its real hit or miss, depends on the game and I kind of have to decide whether its safe on a per-game basis. I am definitely having to lean more group slug in my mid/high power meta tho, as it seems to me that a higher power meta consists more of players aiming to outright win via insurmountable advantage or combo rather than "kill players individually until I'm the only one left" which makes the 1v1 near impossible to get to in many games, as someone just wins before anyone is knocked out, so Furnace of Rath might work pretty well for me right now given that a large chunk of my wins come from just killing the whole table at once. I am running less fogs these days as in the meta I just described, they can be very dead cards, so I might have trouble staying alive however.