@Wolfsage13: I've worked a bit to drop the curve, siding out 1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and the singleton Deadeye Navigator, opting for the cheaper Conjurer's Closet. I added another Spell Rupture. My average CMC is barely above 3.00. Experimentally, I've added 2x Yeva, Nature's Herald to the deck; she'll be a monster if I get Master Biomancer out first, and I'll basically be able to play 2/3 of my deck during my opponent's turn thereafter.

I can control the early game by bouncing permanents over and over and selectively countering threats; meanwhile, my Elves ramp mana and +1/+1 counters, and Thragtusk and Garruk, Primal Hunter boost my life gain and secure a solid board presence. A single Tamiyo offers some control over both threats and my opponent's mana base.

Once I hit six mana (usually T3 or T4), Cyclonic Rift becomes far more powerful than AEtherize, wiping artifacts, enchantments,, creatures, and Planeswalkers. Given the fact that I've never lost a game after an overloaded Rift, I'm not willing to make that tradeoff.

@TzarChasm I signed up to comment on your deck, it looks really interesting and I think it is going to be what I start building towards (I only started magic fairly recently). Just wondering what your thoughts are on Gyre Sage as it is an elf, taps for mana (albeit not ideally so) and can grow with basically anything else you drop (bar 1 drops).

Would you say this deck is difficult to play? If you had to pick something to replace Tamiyo, the Moon Sage with what would it be?

Also thank you for putting so much effort into this, it has made it much better to read and very helpful.

I made this deck but i switched out avacyns pilgrams with Llanowar Elves

@scatastrophe: The deck is fairly complicated but not unnecessarily so. You have to know when to withhold mana for a counter spell or bounce and when to increase your board presence, but that's par for the course with blue. The order in which you drop creatures and Planeswalkers can make a huge difference in their P/T levels, as well as your own survivability. Yeva, Nature's Herald adds a neat layer of depth by allowing you to play virtually the entire deck at instant speed--a total head game for your opponent. Sometimes this deck plays out like aggro; other draws will be more control-oriented. I enjoy its flexibility tremendously.

Gyre Sage is too inconsistent for my preferences, although it will inevitably become a bigger creature that produces more mana than Avacyn's Pilgrim. Until it evolves once it won't produce an mana at all, and it won't always evolve as quickly as I'd like it to. Still, it's not entirely without merit.

Barring more expensive cards like Tamiyo, the Moon Sage I think I'd opt to run Acidic Slime in the main board to control my opponent's mana base. Still, as a controlling Planeswalkers she is without equal.

@evilclown5609: I run this at FNM, so that option is out for me. If I weren't playing Standard I'd replace the Llanowar Elves with Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary.

@TzarChasm I think I will give it a go then, how does it play against jund? I feel like it may be a bit of an iffy match up. I might do a bit of play testing and see how I feel with the Avacyn's Pilgrim's.

What are your thoughts on Prime Speaker Zegana? I will see if I can get a Tamiyo, the Moon Sage but it's nice to have a back up. One other thought I have had is dealing with flyers, obviously you can bounce them but have you found that they don't worry you too much? or is it something that should be considered with side board?

@scatastrophe: I've only played this competitively once: this past FNM. It obliterated Simic ramp/aggro, B/R Vampires, mono red, and fared decently against Boros (although luck of the draw and player error screwed me there). Esper control was an uphill battle--and again, my own mistake shut me down just as soon as my sideboard opened things up a bit. I haven't played against Jund yet, sorry.

If you don't like Avacyn's Pilgrim you might consider Gyre Sage or Farseek, although neither of those are first-turn mana ramps. I run Pilgrims because even with 4x Arbor Elf in the deck I only have a 40% chance to pull one on the draw.

Prime Speaker Zegana is a great card, and she's totally busted when she follows Master Biomancer to the battlefield, which can happen as early as T4. I don't run her in my build because Garruk, Primal Hunter, Tamiyo, the Moon Sage, and Elvish Visionary / Conjurer's Closet offer flexible drawing options.

The only times I've had to deal with flyers so far were my Simic and B/R Vampire opponents at FNM. The former got a six-plus creature army onto the battlefield during both games, but I destroyed him twice with an overloaded Cyclonic Rift. (He was pissed!) The latter player put a Vampire Nighthawk and two Bloodline Keeper  ^Flip onto the battlefield in one game; I let the Nighthawk hit me a time or two while stabilizing myself with Thragtusk and (again) wiped her board with Cyclonic Rift. When she replayed one of the Keepers I used Simic Charm to put it back into her hand before killing her. Do not underestimate Cyclonic Rift; the card is utterly broken with mana ramp.

If you're still worried about fliers I've got an underrated suggestion for you: Silklash Spider. Given this deck's ramping, you can make that "X" really big, really quickly. And a 2/7 with reach will give anything short of Avacyn, Angel of Hope a headache.

I hate playing against this deck. I have only beaten it once. Maybe I'll beat it again tonight? But nonetheless . . . I love you, mo anam cara!

@hldunleavy: I love you too, my unfathomably beautiful wife. Thanks for not trying to embarrass me on my own T/O page. :~/

Remember what i told you about Conjurer's Closet over Deadeye Navigator ? ;)

I'm glad it worked out well for you. :D

The only suggestion i can make is -2 Avacyn's Pilgrim for 2 Borderland Ranger. Rangers will bring you the lands you might need and if u flicker them they will thin your deck from lands, resulting less land draw late game. I'm sure with 22 lands you miss some land drops so he might help.

Good job overall! +1 from me

@omgroflme: Yeah, I would have credited you if I had the comment saved. I'm sorry about that; you were right and I was wrong. Let it be publicly known. ;)

And you know what? I think I'm going to try your Borderland Ranger idea, too. You're right about that flickering thing. Thank you.

It's not about right or wrong :) No need for credit, i like to help.

We play with a heavy creatures-removal meta, so it's logical people to have answers for navigator. But artifacts over three mana cost.. they dont expect them ( Akroma's Memorial anyone? ). I remember the first time my opponents saw closet at a gp trial.. they were actually taking the card to their hands and read it (their faces were precious), then they would see Thragtusk flicker end of turn giving me huge advantage with a Trostani, Selesnya's Voice or a Rhox Faithmender on board.In my deck (selesnya) i don't have many ways to protect it vs Detention Sphere game 1, so i like the Simic Charm hexproof option and the counterspell here.

I really adore Cyclonic Rift it's so overpowered.I can't understand why people don't play them. I like that card so much that i'm trying to force a splash of 2 copies in my selesnya deck, i'm sure it will win me lots of games.

Now.. for the fnm results you posted.

• Esper control for me is a silly silly deck. 2 Witchbane Orb destroy their game trying to mill you. Psychic Spiral is also a good answer. Orb does wonders vs jund as well.

• Vs aggro decks in general the answer is simple and not expected by anyone. Fog. It will buy you time to get to that overloaded Cyclonic Rift that will wreck their game. Side in those Snapcaster Mages game 2 for more flashback options.

I know cards like Conjurer's Closet, Fog people don't consider them "competitive" but look at the pro tour gatecrash, who would have thought Gloom Surgeon, Psychic Spiral and Skirsdag High Priest would show up?

@omgroflme: The funny thing about this particular Esper deck is that it didn't even try to mill me during either game. Instead, the guy relied on Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and Lingering Souls to poke me with boosted tokens. Again, Cyclonic Rift is an ideal answer, wiping his Walkers and their silly tokens all away.

Still, Witchbane Orb isn't a bad idea. I've run Fog in more than one sideboard, and have no problem doing it here--except there's an answer for that now, in the form of Skullcrack. Since Sphinx's Revelation is a thing, my guess is anyone running R/X aggro is going to have a sideboard full of Skullcracks.

Also about control: Don't you think Pithing Needle would be a stronger option against Planeswalkers than Witchbane Orb? Not only do both prevent me from being milled (at least by Walkers), but the Needle shuts down their defensive abilities, as well. It would also draw Detention Sphere away from other high-priority targets.

Your thoughts?

@TzarChasm thanks for the replies I will test Avacyn's Pilgrim vs Borderland Ranger to see which I prefer. I have made some tweaks to the sideboard one of which is what omgroflme suggested; Witchbane Orb The reason I prefer it to Pithing Needle is that you can only shut down one specific target with it where as the orb hits a lot more. Obviously there is the cheaper argument and also that if they only play one of the threats you can just shut that one down but I think the majority of times you are going to need protection from Nephalia Drownyard as well as Jace, Memory Adept for example. Maybe I am wrong as I am fairly new but just food for thought.

Am I right in assuming the reason you don't run Cavern of Souls because you need to hit triple green and double blue on the planeswalkers? I suppose you also have the Curse of Echoes against control which will shut down their counters anyway?

I am so excited, but it's going to take ages to get all the cards :(

I really love this deck! it makes blue green evil, its wonderful! not true simic but its close enough for me, but I noticed you swapped out Avacyn's Pilgrim for the Borderland Ranger, all I can think is that if you want a green ramp creature I'd personally use Scorned Villager  ^Flip and if your lucky enough to have her flip for a turn or two she drops two green mana when tapped, for a converted mana of 2 I think she'd be more use.

@omgroflme, scatastrophe, & almalong:

Okay, at a glance I think almalong is probably correct, as far as the Avacyn's Pilgrim / Borderland Ranger / Scorned Villager  ^Flip debate is concerned. While the Ranger does offer me a land each time he blinks, it doesn't go directly into play, and I would expect to have more sensible flicker targets in most cases. Even Elvish Visionary is a wiser choice, all things considered. Plus, the Ranger's higher CMC means he shares a slot with the vastly superior Elvish Archdruid.

Witchbane Orb makes a lot of sense; I'll find a way to work it into my sideboard soon, Fog is another contender, although it's probably less critical overall.

And I don't run Cavern of Souls for three reasons: (1) Most of my Elves will hit the battlefield before countermagic is too serious of a threat; (2) it won't help with Planeswalkers, Humans, or Beasts (assuming I only had one out); and (3) I've opened around 90 Avacyn Restored boosters and never seen a single one. I can't afford to buy them, so they're out.

People in my area don't play Skullcrack.. It's a bad card. Aggro decks tend to curve out with creatures or a morbided Brimstone Volley they can't afford to keep 3 mana up just to prevent you from prevent the combat damage. I can see only W/U/R playing some but it is not that aggro of deck.

For Witchbane Orb, scatastrophe covered it perfectly! You can always run both of them of course.

I didn't recommend the Borderland Ranger for ramp. I suggested him for deck thinning and establishing important land drops in a 22 land deck. Sure Avacyn's Pilgrim, Scorned Villager  ^Flip ramp you but they usually end up dead by a Pillar of Flame early, without even allowing you to ramp.If you need ramp Gyre Sage is so much better than both of them. Plus it is an elf. You have to playtest to see how that goes i guess.

Oh.. if people are going back to Lingering Souls for esper or even aristocrats decks, i think you said it yourself Silklash Spider is there waiting to wipe boards of flyers. I have two of them in my sideboard since september i love that creature! :P

There are so many usefull tools out there for the current metagame. I had nightmares from jund vs my selesnya deck. Huntmaster of the Fells  ^Flip fliping like mad, Olivia Voldaren stealing my creatures (i couldn't rely just on the 2 Fiend Hunters i had main).. then i saw a weird creature Slayer of the Wicked! They never saw that coming.

@omgroflme: Skullcrack is one of the most expensive uncommons in Gatecrash because of demand; people are playing it somewhere. All I know is that at least one person running Boros at my LGS sideboards the card and mains Brimstone Volley.

I've heard arguments that go both ways regarding deck thinning, but a fair number of people with better math skills than I possess have suggested that culling lands doesn't make as significant a difference in your draw ratios as the average player believes it does. My deck runs a ton of four-plus CMC spells: artifacts, creatures, Planeswalkers, and even Instants. Ramp is far more important to me than deck thinning is. I need to hit the ground running.

Gyre Sage is a strong contender. I tried running him initially, but found that occasionally the +1/+1 bonuses from Elvish Archdruid got in the way of creatures triggering his evolution--but not always. I can tinker around with him again and see how that goes, but the Pillar of Flame / removal argument isn't any less true of him.

Those people you mention probably talk about the fetchlands as deck thining, but the maths done here: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=3096 are for the purpose of deck thining with fetchlands vs loss of life. The risk of Stifle etc.. boring stuff to be honest! Ruining the magic of MTG making it too "mechanical" :p

Don't see him as deck thinning only.

• He is the nessesary 5th-6th land drop for me till turn 5-6 which is the top of my curve (i hate loosing land drops before turn 5-6, it has cost me lots of games).
• He is the nessesary chump blocker (or a trade) vs the aggro decks that will give me that extra round to stabilize.
• He is a great mana fixer

Only after those 3 conditions are taken upon consideration, can we discuss about deck thinning, of him as a target for closet etc..

Long story short.. playtest!! Only that will prove if he is a necessity to your deck. I know he is on mine :)

@omgroflme: Turns out, Gyre Sage is a really bad choice for this deck. I can't evolve him off of Elvish Archdruid because of the static +1/+1 bonus it gives, which means that in most cases it'll take a Thragtusk to put a counter on him. My goal in this deck is to play a T2 Archdruid every chance I'm able, and his bonuses make the evolve condition too fickle.

As for Borderland Ranger, Scorned Villager  ^Flip, and Avacyn's Pilgrim, I'll just have to run play tests to determine what's most reliable. What I can say is that solo play testing on T/O has shown the Pilgrim to be immensely useful in ramping to a T3 Thragtusk or Master Biomancer.

have you considered Negate over the Dispels. I think it might just be my luck with drawing counter spells, but I like to have a little bit more versatility. Also, how do you side when you play? I've found I don't want to remove anything out of mainboard XD.

Then keep Avacyn's Pilgrim for more chances to have a turn 1 mana dork

@Wolfsage13: I guess you're right: given this deck's mana ramp I could probably get along just fine with Negate over Dispel. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that myself.

So far I've only played this deck once in its current form, which was online, about five minutes ago. My opponent was running Bant control, and my deck drew extremely poorly. Over twelve turns in and I hadn't seen a three quarters of my key cards. I was screwed from the start.

I didn't play a second game because I feel sick today, and I'm not up for the frustration right now. The truth is, I'm building a sideboard that I haven't actually had to use much of yet. >_> I'm hardly a gung-ho competitive player.