Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control

Commander / EDH* precociousapprentice

SCORE: 749 | 913 COMMENTS | 208085 VIEWS | IN 387 FOLDERS


DrukenReaps, when I get some time to look over your list, I'll give you some feedback.

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Queen Marchesa may not be aggressive enough for this, but the card is intriguing anyway. Ixalan Ramp is different than anything we have seen before, but similar to lots of old staples as well. Very interesting.

September 13, 2017 11:04 p.m.

DrukenReaps says... #2

Ixalan has so many cards I want... I'm really interested in the treasure tokens myself. Revel in Riches and ruthless knave could really help my mana on top of one of them being a win con. downs and ups to that...

ruthless knave- http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/ixalan/29603-ruthless-knave

Settle the Wreckage could be of interest to you. It is sunforgeable though I suppose you would rather pull out Comeuppance.

axis of mortality just seems funny and I might need to use it because of that.

axis of mortality- http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/ixalan/29614-axis-of-mortality

September 14, 2017 11:04 a.m.

UnleashedHavok says... #3

I know it's a bit of setup involved, but I think I'll add to what DrukenReaps said. Imagine wiping the board with a Settle the Wreckage one turn, then the next ending the game with an Acidic Soil.

September 14, 2017 1:53 p.m.

I looked at Settle the Wreckage and that combo specifically. I don't think it makes the cut in my list. The land drops will help my opponent way more often than me, and it isn't even compelled. It says may. On top of that, it isn't a real board wipe, since it is only attacking creatures. This is both good and bad, but I think mostly bad. In almost every case where I would want it, I would want Comeuppance more. With Sunfirger out, why grab it when I can get Coneuppance instead?

September 14, 2017 6:18 p.m.

UnleashedHavok says... #5

I totally misread Settle! I was thinking it was a forced effect, which would make it an auto include in my opinion.

So have you considered the curses from C17 at all? I played a few games last night and was absolutely wrecked because both my opponents cursed me for their benefit. I think that since you want to sit back and watch the chaos of the table until it is your time to strike, Curse of Opulence would be a nice include. Making other people the target could be beneficial for you, potentially helping you keep the monarch for an additional turn depending on the mana needs of the table.

September 15, 2017 1:31 p.m.

Curse of Opulence is already in there. Great card. May turn out to be a better Pillow than Duelist's Heritage, which had been an amazing inclusion. Curse of Opulence is one of the few cards I am allowing myself to be in both my Kess Aikido and my Marchesa Aikido decks.

September 15, 2017 2:35 p.m.

Just found this.

http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3721&p=45216

It basically lays the foundation for subtle multiplayer Aikido as an archetype. Good read.

September 22, 2017 11:51 p.m.

Azergyzhoul says... #8

How are vampiric nighthawk and serra ascendant wincons

September 23, 2017 7:26 p.m.

Serra Ascendant is just a super efficient creature that draws less hate than most big grindy creatures. Vampire Nighthawk will typically chip away at them when my Fort is created. Neither is an instant win like most EDH thinks of wincons. That is part of the point. There are essentially three components of winning with this deck. First, help redirect through subtle table politics all aggression at the table toward my opponents. Second, chip away with grindy creatures that don't draw hate. Third, take whatever they are doing to win and punish them with it with hyper efficient bombs. The first two are usually necessary to get within range of the last one. Hence, one of the conditions for a win. Wincon.

September 23, 2017 9:06 p.m.

Azergyzhoul says... #10

thanks

September 23, 2017 9:11 p.m.

Just had to report that in actual play, Disrupt Decorum is a total house. It is exactly what they say, Wrath of Goad.

September 24, 2017 11:04 p.m.

MegaMatt13 says... #12

Yup, does exactly what this deck wants to do. Glad you're enjoying it too!

September 25, 2017 12:33 a.m.

SurpriZe says... #13

Great deck and an amazing write-up!

One question, though: since sol ring is allowed in my meta, what would you suggest to replace with it? And would you even recommend doing that?

September 29, 2017 5:25 a.m.

If you can play Sol Ring, replace Pristine Talisman or Mind Stone. Sol Ring is definitely better than both. I would probably lean toward taking out Pristine Talisman. Being able to play Marchesa on turn 3 is a pretty big bump in your game plan. It isn't even essential that she sticks, because The Monarch does, and that changes the game. Thanks for the upvote and for thinking about the deck.

September 29, 2017 6:07 a.m.

SurpriZe says... #15

Thanks for a quick reply!

I have a few more questions:

Is there a reason you don't play Imperial Seal over Cruel Tutor? Also, would you replace Diabolic Tutor with Grim Tutor if you had the chance?

Could you give me a recommendation on what to substitute with Rest in Peace in a heavy graveyard recursion/reanimator meta? Or is it enough having one on Burning Wish (in my sideboard)?

And regarding the deck tactics:

What do you usually do with Marchesa the first time you play her, if all of your opponents are open? And even if they are not, do you still attack to tempt somebody to take The Monarch? Or do you protect The Monarch as long as possible?

And do you always attack somebody with the deathtouch tokens and beaters whenever they are guaranteed to land a hit if you don't need more protection? I'm asking, because the damage does not always seem significant, but it does make people hate you way faster, kind of undermining the original plan.

September 30, 2017 3:48 a.m.

SurpriZe says... #16

I just realised that Burning Wish only applies to sorceries. Then the question regarding Rest in Peace is even more relevant.

September 30, 2017 3:51 a.m.

SurpriZe,thanks for taking the time to really get into my head.

Regarding the tutors, I just don't have an Imperial Seal, so what you see is as optimized as I could get it. I would probably play exactly what you outline if I could. I would potentially still run the Diabolic Tutor in the Wishboard, because putting the card into your hand is sometimes key to those surprise plays from the Wishboard.

Graveyard hate is tough. RIP is a perfect go to card. I think it would depend on what the graveyard is doing for them. Alesha is different than Meren is different than Jarad. You may just consider taking out a rock, or potentially the weakest Pillow, Pacification Array.

If everyone is open, I ask myself how well I can sustain aggression vs stabilize behind my fortress, and how soon the counterattack will take to come at me. Getting in an extra 3-9 damage is nice. I often try to not spread that around, since concentrated damage is more valuable in most situations. Get one opponent within striking distance instead of two that are outside of the red zone.

If the damage potential is low, counterattack potential is high, or I am not stabilizing behind a fortress any other way, I keep all my deathtouch creatures untapped, including Marchesa and her tokens, as long as I have the Monarch. I rarely collect more than a few tokens, the point isn't to get a real army, and often, unless it is being actively contested every turn for a good chunk of damage, I would rather have the Monarch than collect another 1/1 deathtouch assassin.

So, put Marchesa out early, start collecting cards. If you can get away with sneaking in some damage, absolutely do that, or if you can incite a war over the Monarch that will be to your advantage. You will have a pretty easy time getting the Monarch back. If aggression will happen without you inviting it, sit back and watch. If your opening hand doesn't give you a strong fortress or a crazy good offense, wait for your opportunity once everyone else has weakened themselves.

September 30, 2017 10:04 a.m.

In a meta super dependent on the graveyard, or when you are having a hard time with adding Rest in Peace, I would also consider Nihil Spellbomb and Bojuka Bog. That extra card from the pseudo-cantrip of Nihil Spellbomb may be a huge bonus, and the double effect of land plus graveyard hate combined with the uncounterable nature of Bojuka Bog makes it easier to include without missing other important pieces.

Considering the new meta I will be playing in, and the burst of excitement that Kess, dissident mage is getting, including from myself, I may include Bojuka Bog in my list.

September 30, 2017 11:03 a.m.

SurpriZe says... #19

Thanks a lot for your insight, precociousapprentice! I truly appreciate the effort.

So far I'm enjoying this deck a bit too much, and I'd say it's expertly crafted, while rewarding you for trying to understand the ins and outs of its strategy. I've already had some really memorable situations with it, so, well done, overall!

September 30, 2017 12:33 p.m.

Thanks. Again, this is my favorite deck. It requires perfect play and some really interesting draws to compete with true tier 1 decks, but everything else is within it's ability to beat. Even if it doesn't win, it makes the game exciting, and provides a different approach to multiplayer control than most.

I have been thinking about MTG theory a lot recently in context to this deck. I read some about stock mana theory, effective mana theory, card advantage, multiplayer aikido card advantage, and interaction advantage. I am not sure any of these theories account for play like this deck. The closest is probably some combination of multiplayer aikido card advantage and interaction advantage theory. I may have to write up an addition to these theories to account for true aikido play.

September 30, 2017 12:43 p.m.

SurpriZe says... #21

Since you've added Treasure Map, how would you look at Sol Ring replacing it now? Do you think there might be better options for the replacement?

And Dowsing Dagger looks like an interesting addition, although there doesn't seem to be anything worthwhile to cut for it as of now.

October 1, 2017 5:09 a.m.

That spot that Treasure Map is in is flexible, and it will have to prove it's worth. I have had many cars I have been excited about that turned out to not measure up. Slumbering Dragon is a great example. Looks like a great Rattlesnake and wincon. Turns out, it rarely deterred attacks since is can collect a lot of tokens before it activates, and sitting around that long means that it eats boardwipes. It may be better in different metas, but in mine, it never really affected the game. We shall see how Treasure Map plays. The next rock to be potentially cut is Commander's Sphere. A CMC of trumps colored mana, unless it gives significant fixing.

October 1, 2017 8:11 a.m.

Just revisiting the graveyard hate, given that Marchesa is not really dependent on her graveyard at all, Relic of Progenitus may be even better than Nihil Spellbomb. We don't need to worry about our graveyard too much. They work similarly, but Nihil Spellbomb only removes one graveyard and Relic of Progenitus is either repeatable spot removal for a graveyard or removes all graveyards. Could be meta dependent, but I may lean toward Relic of Progenitus.

October 1, 2017 12:42 p.m.

SurpriZe says... #24

Having been playing around with the deck a bit more, I've got a few questions:

What is the ideal starting hand? What should I be looking for during the mulligan? Also, what are the mulligan rules you usually play with?

What do you normally find yourself looking for with the black tutors? Do you ever use the tutors early, or do you usually wait for the right situation to tutor for an answer?

Also, I've been recently looking through the official EDH rules at mtgcommander.net, and under number 13 I found this:

"Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup."

Does it mean that Burning Wish is officially not allowed?

October 2, 2017 5:44 a.m.

The ideal hand is 3 lands and a CMC rock, some soft Pillow card like Curse of Opulence, Duelist's Heritage, or Sun Droplet, a Rattlesnake, a harder Pillow or Rattlesnake to work toward later, and a draw/filtering card. This sets me up to divert attacks away from me, cast Marchesa on turn 3, and then start working through my deck as the early game unfolds. Having removal early is OK as well, especially against really fast decks, but it often works better to let them explode on my opponents and weather the initial storm behind my fortress. Having a wincon is OK, but often you would rather draw these later when your opponents have weakened themselves and had a chance to develop themselves to a point where the wincon can have full effect. Tutors and Fogs are always nice.

For tutoring, I usually hope to hold them until I can grab a wincon or some life saving hard pillow like Solitary Confinement or Teferi's Protection . I will use them early if I am mana screwed to get myself out of it, but that is pretty rare. If I have a good fortress going and my opponents are not building any aggression, I may tutor for my own aggression in the form of Serra Ascendant, Master of Cruelties, or Gisela, Blade of Goldnight. I try not to let a table play sit and wait without having to deal with aggression early. It is best to react to the board state than to have a standard plan for your tutors.

As for Wishes, you are right, they are not allowed by the official rules "without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup." I found the rule amusing, given that Demonic Tutor is allowed. Avoiding the common complaints about abuse can make them a fun card that is no worse than any other tutor. I took my time to address this rule with my playgroup and we agreed on some limits. Somewhere in the archives of this deck I had a pretty thorough discussion of this, and address the changes I would make if Wishes are not acceptable in any specific meta within the writeup. The short story is that Wishes are a meta call, mine during the development of this deck allowed them for use with a specifically constructed sideboard for this use. No cards outside of this sideboard were Wishable. Also, the targets should not really be too mean, just normal cards. I excluded color hate and some of the "unfun" hosers and focused on answers and wincons that would shore up problem areas. Talk to your group, look up previous discussion threads regarding Wishes, and if they are not your group's thing, substitute Burning Wish for any other card that your deck may be weak in. This is a good spot to get as mean as you want against abuses in your meta, like serious graveyard hate or anti-Blue or anti-Green cards. Burning Wish and my Wishboard are much less mean than you could get with that slot.

October 2, 2017 9:11 a.m.

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