Thanks for such thorough answers, as usual!

Speaking of mean cards, I've recently encountered a few people, who believe Serra Ascendant should activate at 50 life, instead of 30, as they perceive it to be simply too powerful for the cost, and not intended for EDH in any way. However, the same people play Sol Ring in every deck, and I'm unsure how to react to the accusations of playing overpowered creatures such as that. I'm really curious as to what your stance is on this matter.

SurpriZe, my playgroup has banned Serra Ascendant for that very reason. We have also banned Sol Ring as it is essentially a "power 10" card.

Ultimately it's up to each playgroup. My playgroup is good at maintaining an open dialogue about banning or unbanning particular cards. Not everyone agrees with every decision, but at least everyone feels they have a voice.

My suggestion would be to have a discussion about the playgroup having its own ban list and then voting on particular cards. That way any decision seems reasonably fair.

Yeah, nothing much to say about Serra Ascendant. Crazy bomb in your opening hand, pretty weak later. There was some grumbling about it at first, but most decks can still play their game, unlike things like MLD, Stax, or even creature bombs like Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, which could be played in this deck, or Seedborn Muse, which is played in just about every green deck. For some reason, I have never needed to defend it much against people who want it banned. If people didn't like it, I would sub it out for something that was more tolerable. I have very few creature bombs, and really, it is almost an undercosted vanilla creature more than a true bomb, because it doesn't really fundamentally change the game when cast, it is just a threat. I rarely cast it when it is the most threatening thing on the board. Sometimes I will cast it to draw out the boardwipe prior to casting Master of Cruelties or Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, since those can fundamentally change the nature of the game. It's nice, and I prefer it to most cards that would fit in that category, but it would be replaceable.

All right, that makes sense. Few more things:

What mulligan rules do you usually play with?

Have you ever considered Phyrexian Obliterator? Seems to fit the theme, while being a decent beater as well. Or is it on the level of the mentioned "bombs"?

In most of my games, even after establishing a decent pillow/rattlesnake-fort, other players simply don't want to attack each other. They wait to get answers against my boardstate and target me primarily. A good example would be a board, where I only have Solitary Confinement, Marchesa with the Monarch, and a soft pillow, say Duelist's Heritage, out. So, I don't overextend. What do you do in such situations?

Dig for aggression. Don't let the board sit peacefully. In this instance, you have become the archenemy, and so you must act accordingly. They are threatening you by not threatening each other. This is not an infrequent board state.

I am not sure what the mulligan rule that we use is called. We frequntly have kids playing with us, mine and/or others. We have a sort of gentleman's agreement that if kids are there, the first mulligan is free, every one after costs a card (redraw 7, then 6, then 5, ...). If no kids are there, every mulligan costs a card (redraw 6, then 5, ...).

Phyrexian Obliterator is super mana intensive. It would make an interesting blocker and rattlesnake, but looking down at that may be too scary, and I would bet it gets wiped out quickly. I usually want cards that make people think, "Hmmm, if I just don't mess with it, it will probably be fine." This sorta screams, "I'm about to wreck you." I would be interested in hearing your take on it if you have actual play experience. I can't justify a $30 card that I can't see forwarding the core mission.

Great deck, had lots of fun with it, thanks for creating it!

Just one question: if you had to, which lands would you use to replace the ABU duals? Ive got the rest of the manabase down, but Im too cheap to buy true dual lands.

I'd be interested to hear that too! personally I quite like the "pain lands (e.g. Caves of Koilos) but I would be interested to hear your thoughts

The pain lands are great, but I would also think about things like Mana Confluence, Path of Ancestry , and Canyon Slough. It would be hard to weigh them all against each other. The bicycle land is nice late game for it's cycling effect, and as an initial land it is often OK to come into play tapped. This also makes Path of Ancestry just fine, and the added Scry is gravy. The pain lands are good, and their painless colorless mana ability may make them equal to the triple land nature of Mana Confluence. Nomad Outpost would be a decent inclusion, it comes into play tapped, but that can be a non-issue if played right. Any of the Tainted lands are good, but you need to ensure that your supply of swamps is high enough. I am not sure I could recommend either the Battle Lands or Shadow Lands, even if Smoldering Marsh is a swamp/mountain, and it and Foreboding Ruins can both come into play untapped if played right. They will often come into play tapped, and in that case, the Nomad Outpost is a better fixer. Given that playing around the comes into play tapped clause is not a game breaker, you could even run the appropriate lifegain taplands and be fine. You don't need either the basic land type or comes into play untapped to make it good. I feel like the color fixing is more important than either, so I would weigh it that way. I would go Mana Confluence, Path of Ancestry , and Nomad Outpost. That is a relatively budget replacement for the ABUR Duals, but with even more fixing.

What are your thoughts on Axis of Mortality ? It punishes those who attack you while also giving a significant political advantage that keeps everyone in check. Isn't that what we are trying to do?

Boda, I am going to take my time to respond, probably this weekend. I don't feel Axis of Mortality will advance the deck the way you think, and could backfire. I need to really think about it though. As an insight into how I usually think about new cards like that, I ask myself what I would do if I was playing against it, and how I would handle it. This is often how I think about politics in EDH. How would this make ME behave? I don't think that Axis of Mortality will make people do what you want for the game state, but I need to take a little time to really get to the heart of what I think it will do. I didn't include it for a reason, but I want to make sure that I have a well reasoned position to give you. Please bear with me.

Boda, I think I am mostly ready to comment on Axis of Mortality .

I will be unlikely to play it, because I think the effect on the game is counter to what I want to achieve. It is a powerful late game ability that happens on your upkeep. It announces well ahead of time that a serious effect is going to come into play. The effect gives my opponents a chance to adjust their play to counter the effect. The effect could end up being the most powerful effect in the entire game, so there is serious incentive to counter or take advantage of it. This will affect play.

When Axis of Mortality hits the battlefield, it effectively says that no life total can be considered owned by any player. At the whim of the Axis of Mortality player, any life total can exchange hands. When facing this, I personally would rethink my relationship to each life total. I would decide that, unless I can bring a life total to zero in a single turn, I would not want to effect any life total, due to the fact that any life total could become mine, even the one I just changed. I would instead concentrate on affecting the board state in ways that do not affect life totals until I can remove Axis of Mortality from the battlefield. I would be wary of the player of Axis of Mortality due to the fact that their are in control of the life totals. I would attempt to place them in a position that they are vulnerable, but wouldn't make any plays against their life total until I could eliminate them from the game, simultaneously removing the Axis of Mortality from the game. The game state would stall, the usual strategies would be abandoned until Axis of Mortality was eliminated, and the end game would likely be delayed for some time.

As an Aikido player, this is counter to what I want to go on. I want people swinging at each other. I even accept being attacked so that people will take The Monarch, and then fight over it, which at first glance would seem to be a suboptimal play, but ultimately utilizes my opponents' resources to hasten the arrival of the end game, giving me a relative card and game advantage as their resources are simultaneously spent and whittled away, hopefully leaving mine more intact than theirs, and then allowing me to utilize the resources on the battlefield to power large bombs for my own victory. Encouraging play states where no one is motivated to bring the end game closer, and everyone is motivated to chip away a the resources on the battlefield, those resources that I want to use to win, all the while painting a target on my head as the puppet master of the game, this will likely significantly weaken the deck and play style. It will likely be a very bad card for this deck.

Have you play tested Fumiko the Lowblood?

I've found her to be incredibly fun to play with - the game really speeds up and offers a lot of new strategies and options when everyone is attacking all the time.

I haven't played Fumiko the Lowblood since the earliest stages of the deck. It does mix things up at the table. I found that her ability was not as good as Goad, since creatures can attack you as well. With a full Fort assembled, Fumiko the Lowblood can be fun, but I found that with a full Fort up, I like Grenzo, Havoc Raiser better, since my deathtouch or evasive creatures could cause similar shenanigans, only with Goad instead, and Grenzo, Havoc Raiser also came with the theft ability, which was also fun. I feel like when I can avoid being piled on for playing it, I would almost rather not have a target out, since people find reasons to mix it up on their own, and putting Fumiko the Lowblood out makes it a little too obvious. A good fort does this by itself. I do occasionally think about either Grenzo, Havoc Raiser or Fumiko the Lowblood in place of Ogre Slumlord. I think I would go for Grenzo, Havoc Raiser in most cases, but Fumiko the Lowblood also fits the theme.

Why don't you play Forcefield? One of the better pillowfort cards. Also Ankle Shanker and Boros Battleshaper.

TheWallinator74, thanks for the comment. I tried Crackling Doom. It was good, but the list is tight. It is nice in metas with eldrazi titans, but mine did not have much that way, so it was less good than the other control. I also like to keep power on the table if possible so I can use it myself. Crawlspace is pretty great, but it actually performed worse than more subtle things like Duelist's Heritage. Situationally, it can be great, such as when I have a Maze effect, but otherwise, it was less effective. Norn's Annex has been in and out of the deck since inception, it never pulls it's weight. I have addressed that every time it comes up, but essentially, spending life is something that people are prepared to do. It doesn't change table behavior that much. I have looked at Diaochan, Artful Beauty, and she can be used politically, but a stronger spot removal is usually what I want. I have not playtested her, so she could turn out to be awesome. Honestly, that is not really the type of politics this deck plays. Strangely, negotiation is typically not what you want to do. Avoid the perception of manipulation, stick to giving choices that will likely lead to table behavior that benefits you because it is your opponent's best option as well. Diaochan, Artful Beauty does not do this at all.

Mathas, Fiend Seeker is something that I have had extensive discussions about, here and all over the usual forums. I think he is counter to what this deck wants to do. I want to leave power on the table, using it to create my victory conditions. He wants to control the board by convincing people to use their control the way that you want it, keeping the board clear and safe for Mathas. I can get away with packing less offense and less wincons sheerly by affecting table behavior and leaving power on the battlefield. Mathas needs to carry more offense and wincons, because he eliminates threats from the battlefield. Different play styles, and I don't think that they mix.

Yarataj, I agree with Forcefield being great. I don't have one. I would test it if I did, but I am not sure it is even that much better than what I have. The pillow fort is crazy good at doing what it is intended, and is not obvious until it is played. Affecting table behavior is the name of the game, and you often don't need the most effective cards to make this happen, and sometimes subtle is better. As for Ankle Shanker and Boros Battleshaper, neither fits. Ankle Shanker is more of an expensive combat trick board wipe than anything, and I don't have room or need for that effect. Not enough creatures to take advantage of that, and adding deathtouch to my mostly deathtouch creatures adds nothing. Good in Alesha, less impressive in Queen Marchesa, almost no value added in this build. Boros Battleshaper is a combat trick, but it is very expensive, and is manipulative. This deck focuses on shaping decisions, not as much outright taking them away. There are a few cards that make decisions for other players, but those are basically game enders, like Wrath of Goad ( Disrupt Decorum ). I have avoided blatant manipulation, because I think it will be much less effective. Cards in play should give subtle added value through changing table behavior by encouraging decisions that forward my plan because they also benefit the one making the decision, and blatant manipulation should hit the table and immediately create a huge effect on the game, and then go away. Boros Battleshaper is not subtle, takes time to get full effect, and looks like it will create persistent resentment of my game state in other players. When other players start thinking "Well, this sucks." about my board state, I want it to be because the game has ended. Otherwise, I want them to be thinking, "I can deal with that later, and I might as well use it while I can." It should feel like Group Hug to attack other players and Stax to attack me. Players like to play with group hug, and hate to play with Stax. They usually adjust their play style and decisions accordingly.

Thanks for the comments. I will definitely continue to consider all suggestions, and may change my mind as I come to a better understanding, but these are my initial reactions.

As an insight into how I think, when considering cards, people usually ask themselves, "How will this affect the board state?" That is a good start, but I like a little different approach. I ask, "How will this change how people play? Will they make decisions that are in my favor when I play this? Will they feel a need to go against me when I play it? Do I care about that?" This makes certain cards much more powerful than they seem, because the board state is less important in multiplayer than how people choose to play. This is what 1v1 players complain about multiplayer games, and rant about "politics" and the negative effect on the game. I want to use that. Not the manipulation, not the negotiation, but the flow of the game and the decisions that people make about how they use their cards. This deck is about affecting that element of the game. I could choose better cards for affecting the board, but these cards are the best for changing decisions about how people should play their cards. Can it be played around? Yes. Does it get played around very often. Absolutely not. That is why it is so fun.

I will be curious to hear how your testing of Thaumatic Compass goes. I'm considering it too but don't know what I would cut for it. I wonder if the right way to play it is to just not use its basic land fetching ability (unless really hard up for mana obviously) and then just let it flip naturally when you get to 7 lands (usually not that long in Commander). The 3 mana to search for a basic and put it into your hand seems a little steep. The extra Maze of Ith is of course wonderful though.

That is basically how it has worked. I have played Thaumatic Compass twice. Both times I only fetched a few times. It flipped both times pretty naturally at 7 lands.

It is nice that you can use it at instant speed, making it hurt less to keep open mana for reaction spells, since at least you can fetch a land before your turn. That makes it similar to another Weathered Wayfarer, since the addition of cards in hand is good, even if you have no interest in playing them as lands. You can just pitch them to Solitary Confinement or Key to the City. When it flips, you get a Maze of Ith! Even if you just play it early and then wait for it to naturally flip, it is good.

I think that the cost looks higher than it will actually be. It's almost like the comes-into-play-tapped lands. They can slow you down, but you can learn to play around them so that you don't really notice most of the time. The cost seems steep, but if you mostly ignore it and just pump mana in when it is otherwise sitting idle, you get good value out of it. Don't think about it like a Maze that costs multiple turns in a row to make active. Think of it as a late game Maze that can be brought online sooner by spending otherwise unused mana that you held open for reactive instants, and with a side benefit of the occasional mana fixing land drop ability. It is a pseudo-ramp, pseudo-fixing, pseudo-draw, late game pillow fort. At this point, I feel like it fits right in.

You've convinced me to give it a try :) I see what you're saying in regards to only activating it when you have unused mana that was being held up anyway.

My only problem is where to make room! I love all the cards in my deck and it's tough to cut anything haha

I know what you mean. Tough to cut really cool cards, even for other really cool cards.

What do you think of Serene Master (the definition of aikido), Crown of Doom, Skullclamp (if someone has the monarch, you can opt for drawing with the tokens), Mother of Runes (negates any sort of spot removal, providing evasion and easy defence as well)?

I was also thinking about Rite of the Raging Storm, as it doesn't prevent the opponents from doing anything (no feeling of stax) and gives them free stuff to play with (similar to hug). Have you ever considered it?

SurpriZe, I love how you are thinking about this deck. It is exactly how I think about it. Every one of those cards have been considerations for this deck, and it ultimately often comes down to card slots available. Crown of Doom and Serene Master have been the strongest considerations. Crown of Doom acts very similarly to The Monarch, but is less subtle, demands action instead of suggests it, and cost you both 5 mana to activate and a card slot that The Monarch does not. It is still a strong card, and would be another fun pseudo-Pillow Fort. Serene Master is very cool, acts similarly to Vampire Nighthawk, but is more likely to live through a combat, but doesnt have flying. Flying won. Maybe in the near future I will reveal the Aikido deck I am making for my daughter. Both of these will likely appear in it. The others were not as good at directly forwarding my game plan as cards already in the deck. Still, every one is a good option.

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to hear!

While we are at it, what can you say about Arcane Lighthouse (with so much spot removal/finishers relying on targeting a big creature, I've noticed that many hexproofed/shrouded commanders pose an unsolvable issue at times) and Slayers' Stronghold (allows for sudden finishers with hasted Master of Cruelties and other beaters, while letting us affect the board of other players as well)?

The only creature in my meta that routinely has hexproof or shroud is Fleecemane Lion, so Arcane Lighthouse has not made an appearance yet. Slayers' Stronghold was in the deck for a while. It was a pseudo-Pillow Fort in that I could offer to boost other players' creatures if they don't attack me, and the added boost was nice for mine occasionally. I never had it make an effect on a game due to haste, but I could see that it could. When I took it out, the land slots in the deck were limited. It was removed to make room for Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion. I guess both Arcane Lighthouse and Slayers' Stronghold could take a basic slot if needed. They are nice utility lands that would add a little something to the deck.

Semi-repost from MegaMatt13's wall to spread love for Teferi's Protection . I won the game against a semi-mirror match against a newly minted Bant Aikido deck. It went Demonic Tutor and Enlightened Tutor to get Master of Cruelties and Key to the City, cast Master of Cruelties. Opponent casts Path to Exile on Master of Cruelties. I cast Teferi's Protection , saving my entire board. Pass the turn, my opponent gets nothing, and passes the turn, knowing she is at least mostly dead. I draw the Key to the City, cast it, and tap and discard to Key to the City on Master of Cruelties, attacking with Master of Cruelties. This bypasses my opponent's Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker, Clever Impersonator cloned No Mercy, and her Delaying Shield, as well as a held Dawn Charm to put her at 1 life. I transmute Shred Memory into Price of Progress and cast it, knowing that she doesn't have enough to pay the mana to Delaying Shield to save herself next turn. Pass the turn, and good game. This was after she let an Insurrection through to take out both other opponents earlier in the game when she could have Dawn Charmed to save them. I was expecting her to hold a fog, so I took out them instead of her. She ended up dyeing with that Dawn Charm in hand. Super interesting to see the deck in a multiplayer against another Aikido deck, this one with arguably more control and defense in the form of blue control and green rattlesnakes, but with less aggression. The aggression won out. Mardu aikido is amazing, super fun, and will probably always be my favorite.

What do you think about my take on playing more curses in a political Marchesa deck?

Moatchesa, Queen of politics

Commander / EDH Juppe

SCORE: 2 | 2 COMMENTS | 76 VIEWS

I really think the addition of the new ones in CMD17 and with some new ones in Amonkhet we have the opportunity to put targets on other peoples faces. The ones of Innistrad-block are great as well..Here are just some examples of cards I mean:

• Curse of Vengeance
• Curse of Vitality
• Curse of Disturbance
• Curse of Opulence
• Curse of Misfortunes
• Curse of Bloodletting
• Curse of Shallow Graves
• Trespasser's Curse
• overwhelming Splendor