Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 749 | 913 COMMENTS | 208073 VIEWS | IN 387 FOLDERS
precociousapprenticeThanks for the huge analysis. I get some of your points and I think the main problem between our positions is that I simply run a different form of Pillowfort.. Usually nobody is actually able to attack me, so giving my opponents 2/2 zombies is actually good to let them kill each other or work out something in their circle while I sit behind my pillow fort and beeing not attacked/considered as a threat at all.
Therefore Curse of Shallow Graves and Curse of Disturbance are a lot better in my list than in yours..
Regarding Curse of Vengeance I have to admit that I never tried out playing this paticular one.. After I return to my home playing group (due to being abroad for half a year right now...) I surely can say more how people really react to this kind of "threat"/reward".
Duelist's Heritage is as good as you said but may be considered as too powerful being on your side of the field, I think. Curse of Bloodletting is actually a lot better than you think. Not only putting a metaphorical but an actual red target sign that says "if he/she gets outhanded, just kill him/her, it's a lot easier now". I usually put that thing on the one who's already ahead of everybody to make it easier to take him out and lead the group in that direction..
Probably I'm going to cut Trespasser's Curse as it doesn't really mark somebody as a target, as you said :) Suture Priest on the other hand is too oppressing for the whole table and marking myself as a target, therefore not good at all but a good example for effects that are similar to this curse.
October 24, 2017 8:39 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #3
I will take your word for the power of your Pillow Fort in your meta, but I don't see anything that is overly powered beyond the usual Marchesa Fort. Lightmine Field will clear a board sometimes and can be useful, Island Sanctuary has limited effect in EDH given the number of flying creatures even if it is a viable alternative to Solitary Confinement in some cases, Blazing Archon is solid, but way too expensive to affect most games, and creatures are the most fragile of permanents, and the rest is pretty bog standard Pillow Fort. Don't overestimate how secure you will be. A Pillow Fort is powerful not for making you invincible, but for changing behavior at the table by making you a less desirable target, and sometimes, a stronger Fort is weaker than a more subtle fort. Politics is the art of convincing people that your way is the best, and that often happens when they feel they are getting the better deal. I am not sure I see how the curses do that in most instances, and were you to play them against me, I am not sure I would behave the way you are suggesting people will.
October 24, 2017 7:33 p.m.
Chickens_are_awesome says... #4
How is Master of Cruelties supposed to work? I feel like it will put too much of a target on you.
November 5, 2017 7:48 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #5
Chickens_are_awesome, it is actually pretty great. It is basically a one hit win even against infinite life, which is one reason I keep it. It is like a non-combo combo. It can be a target, but I need large swing wins, and this one mostly fits the bill.
btw. You are right. Chickens are awesome. We had back yard chickens in our last house, and plan for them this spring in the new one.
November 5, 2017 10:43 p.m.
Chickens_are_awesome says... #6
I agree that it is a great card, especially with all of the cards that cause damage in this deck, but I feel like it will put a huge target on you, but with all of the pillow fort it will probably be fine.
November 6, 2017 5:26 p.m.
RobotCowhand says... #7
I'm close to finishing this build, thank you for the post. I have a question... why run Gift of Estates over Land Tax? I'm struggling to see the benefits of the prior.
November 9, 2017 11:50 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #8
RobotCowhand, at this point, I guess it is more historical than anything. At one point I had no basics, so getting a plains was important. Even now, I can get a dual, or get Mistveil Plains. I am not sure that this benefit still stands. It could easily be changed.
November 9, 2017 6:51 p.m.
RobotCowhand says... #9
Aha, that makes sense. You have 5 (mana fixing) targets for Gift of Estates, and 6 Basics for Land Tax. I'm honestly not sure which is the most appealing.
Getting an opening hand Land Tax would enable you to pull all 6 basics out of your library and fix any colour issues. Once all 6 are pulled you won't feel that urge to try and stay one drop behind an opponent, as I often do with Land Tax in play.
That said, Tithe with Gift of Estates can pull all 5 dual coloured 'Plains' out of the deck.
November 10, 2017 9:39 a.m.
RobotCowhand says... #10
Potential card for the Burning Wish sideboard, Fell the Mighty. Useful when token army is built and facing down a board of dragons/pumped vampires. Common in my LGS meta since C17 came out.
November 20, 2017 5:27 p.m.
Some1WhoPwns says... #11
I have to give you kudos on this deck, having answers to every situation is such a fun way to play, had some cards laying around to fit into the deck while I wait for some in the mail. (I play most my magic at work so its not a whole lot of time to enjoy, especially since we have 3 12 minute breaks)Ive played this deck roughly 4 times now and Ive enjoyed each session with it, even if the game goes unfinished, rarely does a deck I own make me shake with anticipation to the possibilities of having answers to the problems at hand knowing that they are within reach. I love this deck, Ive had some of the most fun ever simply playing this deck and even just looking through it. So many fun scenarios and Im only looking forward to playing it more! (Also, not sure if youre a game of thrones fan, but queen marchesa looks like queen Cersei if she had blonde hair imo lol totally fitting if you ask me)
November 21, 2017 8:43 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #12
Thanks for the nice feedback Some1WhoPwns. I appreciate it. I agree, this is the most fun playing MTG I have ever had. I also agree about Cersei. Conniving and manipulative, and often underestimated.
RobotCowhand, thanks for the suggestion. I agree that it is not a maindeck card, but you are right, it could be an interesting add for the Wishboard. I will check it out, and see how it plays. It may also be a nice addition to a budget version of the deck, even if it does not eventually make the more optimized list. I have been contemplating adding a section about making this list budget, but haven't gotten around to it. Maybe this will prompt me to get that done.
November 21, 2017 8:47 p.m.
Abbanation01 says... #13
remove No Mercy and replace it with Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts?
November 27, 2017 9:56 a.m.
RobotCowhand says... #14
Abbanation01 Not to speak on precociousapprentice behalf, but here's my take on that :
1) There are far more ways to remove creatures from the battlefield. She can also be stolen, etc.2) She costs more mana3) Academy Rector and Enlightened Tutor can target No Mercy
November 27, 2017 11:49 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #15
Abbanation01, RobotCowhand pretty well sums it up. Add to that assessment that No Mercy is not threatening unless they attack me, and it is a much better value. I played Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts way back in the beginning of this deck's development. It came out way to late to have a really strong effect on the game. By the time that 7 drops are being played, the effect of redirecting attacks is much less potent, and the big bomb on the table makes that threat calculation much more likely to send things my way. It wasn't worth it. I don't even have Dread in it, and I would likely, and at one time did, play that over Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
November 27, 2017 7:22 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #16
I know. Unstable is silly. But those lands! I will be replacing all my basics with new unstable lands. They are gorgeous. The island is particularly stunning. I need a really good blue deck now.
Also, I can't, but if I were to add Unstable cards to the deck, these are the ones I would add:
Similar utility to Master of Cruelties, but I would have to adjust to add a Haste enabler. Would be worth it for the out of nowhere wins. Super funny as well.
Holy crap! This is almost everything we would want in a card! It only needs flash and a lower CMC and it would be like it was designed for this deck. I would run it if I could anyway.
November 29, 2017 5:13 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #17
I'm exploring a new area of politics, this time in Esper and with a much harder focus. If interested, check it out.
December 18, 2017 10:47 a.m.
Suns_Champion says... #18
Hi! Been following this list for a while. I'll admit I'm in love and am considering testing/buying it.
I love love love LOVE everything about this deck. The Commander, the Colors, the Aikido theme and strategy, the card choices, and the political nature of the deck. Everything. My most enthusiastic +1
Some questions for you friend.
I have a fairly small meta, 7-9 people. I and one other person win 75% of games. I'm probably the best player and get the most wins, even with my just for fun decks. My meta is pretty younga and Timmy-ish, so things like Mardu colors being weak in commander don't register as much as "Eek! haste and deathtouch? That's scary!" if that makes sense. I'm also already know as the best politician in the group as well. This deck looks like the perfect deck for me, but I'm not sure if it'll be the right fit due to my position in my meta. Curious on your thoughts about that.
Why are Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves not included? I feel like our Queen would be spot removed a lot in my meta so I'd add them personally, wanted to know why you don't.
My meta is fairly budget, and run a lot of basic lands even in 3-5 color decks. Are Price of Progress, which I haven't found useful yet in my Neheb, the Eternal deck, and Anathemancer still worth it you think? Are they so important to the deck you'd still run them when their effectiveness is cut in half? And if so, with what would you replace them with?
Have you considered Arcane Lighthouse to help the Threaten effect get through Boots/Greaves and such?
Have you considered Scavenger Grounds as a copy or replacement of Bojuka Bog?
Pacification Array seems weaker than the rest of the list... are there no better options?
Trust me when I say your excellent Primer has already answered loads of questions. Respect all the work you put into it.
I want to thank you in advance for any time you give to answering my questions. I can't wait to discus it further!
January 6, 2018 9:19 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #19
Suns_Champion, thanks for the upvote and the very kind words. I appreciate it. Here are my initial answers to your questions. I may have other answers as I think more about your questions, but these are my answers based on what I have seen so far.
First, the deck is fun, and if you already win most games, this deck will probably not change that, unless you are seriously cutthroat already. It basically just evens the power of most decks until the last round or two, and plays as a 75% deck at every table I have found it. I probably wins more than that, but this is because I am the most experienced and obsessed player in my normal meta (it has seen 2 different metas so far, due to a move) and when I show up at random tables, no one really expects it. It has become more popular to play Queen Marchesa, but not enough to be that big of a deal. I would love people to build it and give me feed back on how it does at more tables than I can reach. Even with the concerns about inexperience in your meta, it can withstand more hate than it seems, and while the intention is to ride below the radar, even if it doesn't, it can still often hang. If they waste resources on your death touchers, even the Queen, something else will get them. The Queen and her deathtouch army definitely add to the strategy, but the deck runs fine if they are taken out. Something gets them in the end.
Second, as for Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves, I didn't include them for two reasons. First, I needed the slots. It is a really tight list. Second, removing the Queen is less of a problem than you think. Bring her back out and you are the Monarch again. This provides some disincentive to take her out, at least for the guy who is currently or soon will be the Monarch. She is fairly inexpensive with a CMC of , so this can happen a few times before it gets truly out of hand. For a minor third reason, you only get half of the benefit of those cards when playing with Queen Marchesa, since she already has haste. I found better uses for those slots.
Third, Price of Progress, Anathemancer, and Acidic Soil are all just cards with a low CMC and a high potential damage for the average meta. Commander is notorious for non-basics. If this is not worth it in your meta, think about a resource, situation, or game characteristic that is very common in your meta, and hit them for that. If a bajillion creatures are often on the board, try mainboarding Insurrection, Incite Rebellion, and Stronghold Discipline. If people draw a ton of cards, try Underworld Dreams and Sudden Impact. Go after common game states and the usual overreach for your meta. Take advantage of the way that players build their decks to work. Use their strategy to take them down. Become one with their deck, let their power become yours. There are many ways to do this, I have just seen that excessive lands, especially nonbasic lands, can be a source of power for my offense, and Price of Progress and Anathemancer are usually just really efficient bombs.
Fourth, there have been a few times I have really wanted Arcane Lighthouse. It is pretty amazing. This has been especially true against really aggressive decks, especially voltron decks, since Greaves/Boots are standard issue for voltron. That is definitely a consideration, and probably could be fit in if shroud/hexproof are a problem.
Fifth, Scavenger Grounds is a great card, and if graveyard is a serious threat in your meta, it is a good include. I find that with Bojuka Bog, Shred Memory, and Rakdos Charm, I am often covered well enough. If it got further out of hand with the graveyard shenanigans, I would possibly include Scavenger Grounds, or maybe Rest in Peace.
Sixth, Pacification Array is pretty weak. It occasionally allows for something surprising, since it is often forgotten about, and is otherwise pretty cheap. It probably gets played from my hand as a sorcery speed tap one creature or artifact card for immediate advantage more than any other way, but it does act as a decent Kor Haven replacement with some frequency. Think of it like surprise tempo, defense, and politics all wrapped up in a relatively cheap package. I like how flexible it is, being used for both offensive and defensive uses, as well as politically by defending other players (rare) or opening a line of attack against a common opponent (more frequent) so that I can encourage that attack to point away from me. It is honestly still in there because I have just not taken it out again, since it has come out before, but you may be overlooking it's subtle power. It will get replaced with Forcefield when I can get one. With a deck as pimped as I have made this, Forcefield kind of needs to be in there. It will be some day. For someone else's deck, it could be just about anything.
Thanks again for the kind words. I look forward to seeing your version when you make it. It really is a ton of fun to play, and never disappoints, even when it loses.
January 6, 2018 11:15 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #20
Actually, you just made up my mind. I got tired of waiting to find one to trade, knowing that was likely impossible. I ordered a Forcefield. About time.
January 6, 2018 11:50 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #21
I got my alter from
https://www.etsy.com/shop/LapineStudios1?ref=l2-shopheader-name
She was about $7 Divine Decree I dunno a good way to link the image but it is on my deck. Also the artist doesn't have individual listings anymore but you should be able to get the same or get something more to your liking. The work is high quality.
January 7, 2018 1:15 a.m.
Suns_Champion says... #24
precociousapprentice thanks for the quick and detailed response! I think you've dispelled my fears about how it'll work in my meta. My play group is planning a 100% proxy deck game-night and I think I'll be running a version of yours! I can't wait to test it out and tell you how it goes!
I see your points on the card inclusions/exclusions. Thanks for the answers!
I'm sure I'll be back for more, but for now, thank you!
January 7, 2018 12:47 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #25
For whatever reason the alternate art broke on my deck it doesn't display currently so this should lead to the art
http://tappedout.net/alter/9412/
bigger picture here anyways.
precociousapprentice says... #1
Some of the curses are great, and I run Curse of Opulence as a pseudo-Pillow Fort card. The issue is that you want to manipulate behavior through rewards, but not give rewards that you cannot handle or will not cause vengeance seeking. They are nice for a nudge, but when overplayed, they can backfire. The C17 curses are actually very nice, but I find the Innistrad curses to be less optimal. The shared reward is great, even when it is as powerful as Curse of Verbosity. Card draw is very powerful, but when you are splitting it with other players, people are less likely to overwhelm you with the value that they get, or to resent the value that you are getting. The player being cursed is likely to resent it, so it is actually best to piggy back a curse onto existing table sentiment. What I mean here is, when someone it in a commanding or threatening position, and the table is considering rallying to oppose them, it is good to add a curse to the consideration to sweeten the prospect. It is the other side of the coin from Pillow Fort and Rattle Snake cards. Instead of "Look elsewhere." type effects like Ghostly Prison or No Mercy, it is a "Consider them." effect, which can have a very similar effect on player behavior. The effect can't be too heavy handed, since players do not like being manipulated. It is also better to have the reward be immediate, and not conditional or delayed. We are not trying to get them to trust us or ally with us explicitly. Also, effects that target, but do not affect decisions of the group are often less effective in politics. In this sense, certain cards in your list become better for politics, and certain cards are worse. Curse of Vengeance is counter productive, since you are rewarded, no one else is, and the cursed player will rightly see you as benefiting from their misfortunes. Other players may hold off attacks on that player in an attempt to limit your reward, and the cursed player has good reason to start attacking you. That is the opposite of what this deck wants. Trespasser's Curse is less bad, but still doesn't motivate anyone else at the table to help you, and still creates the revenge motivation with what is essentially little reward. If I wanted that effect, I would go with Suture Priest, and hit the entire table equally. Curse of Vitality is probably too little reward, since 2 life is a small resource. Curse of Shallow Graves is likely a decent reward, but may allow other players to outpace you, since this deck is less likely in a position to press an attack, making Curse of Disturbance a much better card. You keep pace with the table with Curse of Disturbance. Curse of Bloodletting is a slightly more powerful version of Duelist's Heritage, with more limitations and less control, all at a higher price. I already play that effect in the form of the much better Duelist's Heritage, although playing in a meta with many swarm decks may make it a better option. This leaves my two favorite curses, Curse of Opulence and Curse of Verbosity, with only Curse of Opulence able to be played in this deck. I find that shared resource gain of a resource that is not immediately seen as threatening is a really great spot to be in. Curse of Opulence is a nice ramp spell early, and has put Queen Marchesa in play for me on the second turn on multiple occasions. I am building both a Grixis and a Bant Aikido deck, and Curse of Verbosity will likely show up in both. I have not played it yet, but if it turns out to play like Curse of Opulence, it may end up being a great Pillow Fort card for those decks, and will potentially turn out to be a more subtle Edric, Spymaster of Trest for more blue decks, while allowing you to at least keep parity with the rest of the table as they take advantage of the bounty you put on another player. I am looking forward to seeing it in action. I will check out the rest of your list, but that will be the position I will be evaluating the list from.
October 23, 2017 10:01 a.m.