So I copied the deck writeup to a word document to ensure I had a backup. Turns out it is 23 pages. Crazy.

Have you previously considered War's Toll? Or Reverse Damage as part of the Sunforger package? Is reverse damage too limited with it only "countering" one source?

I had considered both. War's Toll is a card that can give incremental advantage, but it is really a forcing move. It is not really dissimilar to Winter Orb in how it feels when played, and it actually discourages attacking. When someone wants to maintain some defense, they have to abstain from any attacks to accomplish that. When someone wants to preserve a utility creature, they have to abstain from any attacks to protect it from blockers. It was counter to the decks optimal play. Reverse Damage is definitely a little limited. I have played Reverse Damage, Awe Strike, and Riot Control for a short time for each of them. Riot Control turned out to be the best of the bunch in the meta that I used it in, but even then, aside from an extra Fog that kept me from losing, it also never won me a game. I used that slot for better cards for this deck. I do appreciate the suggestion, though.

BX223Hunter, I decided to respond here so that everything is all together as far as conversations go regarding this deck.

I tried Grab the Reins as one of the Threaten effects. It worked pretty well, but I found that Act of Aggression with it's flexible cost and Word of Seizing with split second to be better inclusions. In reality, this was a judgement call, and Grab the Reins was a great inclusion. It could easily be added in for either of those two, or even as an additional Threaten effect.

I had not seen Imp's Mischief, but I had considered Shunt. I didn't ever play it, but I ultimately concluded that Shunt shunt was not likely versatile enough to include. I think Imp's Mischief would be the same thing. Although, it may be fun to play in the right meta. Surprise cards like that out of non-Blue decks care really rock someone's plans.

I like the changes. I've thought about swapping out Sunhome myself. I may throw a Strip Mine in there too. Scavenger Grounds has been in my deck for a while and it's a great piece of graveyard hate.

I'm torn about Grab the Reins. The ability to use it as removal with some extra burn is great...costly though. I used it in my Keranos thievery deck for a while. I eventually cut it because it is a threaten effect that does not untap the creature it steals. So often I wanted either an emergency blocker or to steal a big threat to finish off an opponent but looking at a board of mostly tapped creatures. That downside was enough for me to eventually give it the axe

You know MegaMatt13, I somehow think we had this conversation, and I just forgot about it. I think reminding me about it means I am taking it out. The value is beating face, not a backdoor removal or weird sac outlet. Bummer. I would love an instant 4 CMC threaten that untaps the creature. Sunforger target, Aikido weapon... I need to revisit this. Stay tuned, and thanks MegaMatt13.

After the helpful reminder of my likely blunder and misreading of the card by MegaMatt13, I am revisiting my Threaten effects section.

Disrupt Decorum is a total house. It brings disaster on all my foes, if it doesn't end the game within a few turns or so. It is nicely costed, and given that it's effects last for a full round of turns means that being a sorcery is not a huge deal. Great card, and while not technically a Threaten effect, it is not that different than Insurrection in what it does in play to make a difference. This has been my favorite.

Word of Seizing is an instant with split second. It is a very versatile card, if somewhat expensive. Still, you can pull all kinds of craziness with it. My second favorite.

Insurrection just finishes things. It is super expensive, and is better left in the Wishboard for retrieval when needed. Usually a single card late game one turn wincon.

Act of Aggression is technically CMC 5, but in reality, it is a colorless CMC 3 instant that does 4 damage to you, pay or to prevent 2 or 4 damage. It untaps, as MegaMatt13 astutely points out, meaning it has both offensive and defensive uses, and can't be foiled by the owner tapping it. Great card, I just wish it was CMC 4 for use with Sunforger.

Grab the Reins can be tutored with Sunforger, but the utility is severely limited by not untapping. Bummer.

Mark of the Oni looks very interesting. On the off chance that I have out Master of Cruelties, I get to keep the creature. If it untapped, this would be a perfect card. As it is, it has the same issue as Grab the Reins. I may try it anyway.

Blind with Anger has almost everything I want, instant, CMC 4 or less, untap and give it haste. Only problem is it is for legendaries. Too many legendaries I would want to target. Still, maybe worth trying.

Besmirch is pretty great, 3 cmc threaten that goads, untaps, and gives it haste. That is pretty amazing. The goad gives it defensive uses, even if not for blocking. Offensive defense. That is perfectly in line with this deck. It is a sorcery, which is the the only down side. I have like this one before, and may return to it. We shall see.

Unwilling Recruit is very interesting. Most things I am looking for, it untaps, it gives haste. It also can be used as an X spell finisher. I have not tried this one, but I am going to. A sorcery speed threaten effect that could turn a utility of midrange creature with some form of evasion into a finisher. Very cool. Too bad it doesn't bring evasion or trample by itself. I will try this one anyway.

Disharmony is a card I have tried, and I really wanted to like it, but in the end, it was a weird Fog/removal, with the potential of being a 2 for 1 in the right circumstances. Bummer. Not enough. Still, playing a card from Legends brings a little gravitas to a deck. Like drag racing a 57 Chevy. It may not win, but you look good losing.

Kari Zev's Expertise looks cool, but I am afraid that I would infrequently get to use the free spell. There are many CMC 2 cards, but most are defensive or early game cards. I may try it to see how it works.

Zealous Conscripts is awesome, but doesn't have flash, and comes with too much combo rep. Even so, it is worth considering.

Threaten, Traitorous Blood, Hijack are all similar sorcery speed effects that cost 3. They each balance different benefits. Besmirch is likely better in most situations.

Malevolent Whispers and Turn Against are both kinda cool, but expennsive, and their benefits don't outweigh the expense, given the alternatives.

Fractured Loyalty would be super fun in the right deck. Not this one.

Frenzied Fugue is pretty amazing. I could have some weird fun with this. Not sure is is the right card for this deck, though.

Other than those, there are also a few multi-target spells that fit in this category. Mass Mutiny, Mob Rule, and Molten Primordial are all great cards, and if I am creeping up into the higher CMC, as well as accepting some sorcery speed options, then these should definitely be considered. I am not sure which of them I like best. I am leaning toward Mass Mutiny due to the cheaper CMC, even though Molten Primordial comes with a large body, and Mob Rule will likely hit more targets. I may try them all.

While we are at it, since I am probably getting somewhat similar effects out or Animate Dead and Reanimate, maybe I should consider Beacon of Unrest. The CMC is higher, but the opportunity to use it more than once is interesting. It may find a spot as well.

Anyway, please comment and tell me about your favorite Threaten effects. I need one to put in the Grab the Reins spot, and want to consider all options.

Totally agree with Disrupt Decorum and Word of Seizing being top two favourite. The 5 CMC is annoying on Word of Seizing but the split second is surprisingly often relevant.

For YOUR deck, I think I would suggest trying out Blind with Anger. You focus on instants and the Sunforger Package more than I do and it would be great for you to have a threaten effect you could tutor for with Sunforger. See how much the "non-legendary" downside comes into play. It is a fairly steep downside not being able to steal people's Commanders, but maybe the instant speed/Sunforger ability is still worth it.

My next highest suggestion for a threaten effect if you are forgoing a Sunforger target would be return to Besmirch. It forces opponents to do what you want them to do, become aggressive against each other.

I probably wouldn't go Molten Primordial or Mob Rule in this deck. I know you've allowed a little more higher CMC creatures, but I think one strength of your deck is that overall it is still low CMC and flexible. Putting in another 6-7 drop may be tilting the balance a bit too much.

Just my thoughts and good luck! :)

I think you and I have a very similar understanding of this deck, MegaMatt13. My plan is to check out Blind with Anger, and if that doesn't work, it will probably be either back to Act of Aggression or experiment with Besmirch. I liked it before, it does almost everything I want, but I really want an instant in that spot.

I also am considering moving Reanimate to main board in that spot, and putting Beacon of Unrest or another sorcery Threaten effect with a cheaper CMC than Insurrection in the Wishboard. Given that a boardwipe can slow me down as much as everyone else, since their offense is my offense, I like the idea of a quicker recovery with a reanimate package. With Mastermind's Acquisition being another Wish, one that is not exiled with use, I can return to the Wishboard more than once. I think that will make the Wishboard something more than it has been. I may find it can change how I play some. Making the Threaten effects only a 2 card inclusion main board, adding a 2 card reanimate package, and making the Wish package 2 cards with more flexibility and actually more useful than that due to reusability, that could add breadth to the deck.

Also, what do people think about Twilight Prophet? Late game gas and bleed effect seems pretty strong.

Great Deck!

I see you are running Gisela, have you considered any damage doubling effects? Dictate of the Twin Gods, Furnace of Rath, Angrath's Marauders, or Insult / Injury quadruple the damage when using Comeuppance, Deflecting Palm etc.

Have you considered any of the aikido creatures like stuffy doll? I'm excited to tell you how frightening it is when one of your opponents, who you have let hit you a couple small times comes in with everything they have and you flash in a Stuffy Doll or Phyrexian Obliterator with Winding Canyons and if they are going wide add a Defensive Formation.

I do find with damage doubling effects/copy spells that significantly increase how effective the aikido cards work.

Waiting for the right moment is the best!

Muglacious_NiceFaceToad, thanks for the comment. I apprecite every bit of engagement in the conversation about the deck I can get, and appreciate the time spent considering and commenting.

I did consider the damage doublers, but found that they have a tendency to increase everyone's anxiety at the table, and caused some people to target me. I also have less overt threats to take advantage of them than many decks, and so I found I was a victim of them as much as my opponents were, or more. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight was a relatively late addition to the card list, partially due to the anxiety it causes at the table, partially for the cost, and partially because it is less subtle than I think is best for this deck. It has functioned well as a finisher, but it does so partially because of it's defensive power. In every way that Furnace of Rath or Dictate of the Twin Gods is a threat to me, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight protects me. Insult / Injury is a one time effect that only triggers on damage I cause, so it seems to be much less versatile than I would prefer for my offense. I had not seen or considered Angrath's Marauders, but it is very comparable to Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, only inferior in every way. It costs the same, is smaller, does not have evasion or first strike, and it only triggers off of damage that you cause, not just any damage. While it is not dangerous to you, it does not enhance the attacks of opponents that are pointed away from me, and does not decrease the attacks of my opponents pointed at me. It is not at all a Pillow Fort card, so it turns out to just be a threat and enhancer of my offense. Similar, but it is strictly inferior, and I only need a few effects like that.

While flashing things into play can be exciting and surprising, I often gain more value on those effects by announcing them innstead of surprising people with them. When people assess a board state, I want them to choose to attack someone else, not trick them into a bad attack against me. Winding Canyons would potentially be good as a threat of response to an attack, but letting them know I have that threat is often better than letting them guess. Why bluff when you can just show them, and then make their decision to attack someone else easy. This is basically the value of Vampire Nighthawk.

When considering Stuffy Doll, I had two problems with it that kept it out. First, it targets a single player, and picking fights is often a recipe for disaster for this deck. Obviously Curse of Opulence goes against this, but the value of ramp and redirection of attacks early often overshadows any retaliation effect from it. The second issue I had with Stuffy Doll is that to get it to work, people have to attack me. I want to discourage this. It is better to have people just directly attack another player instead of having them attack me, me blocking, and then the other player taking damage. Stuffy Doll is a good combo piece, but I really think that it is a terrible Aikido piece. It encourages exactly what we don't want.

Phyrexian Obliterator is just too damn expensive. You are often late in the game before you can ensure you can play it, and then you should be sealing control of the game, not intimidating other players into not attacking you. As a big threat, it can win games over a few turns, but I want my wins to mostly be a couple of turns after I go offensive, not 4-8 turns per player later. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is an evasive threat that smashes face for 10 by itself each turn, and makes every other threat double, all while being a defensive damage reducer. Master of Cruelties can basically take a player out in one turn. Serra Ascendant comes down early, is evasive, beats for 6 most of the time, and also regains a ton of life. Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs can smash for just as much, but is also at least as defensive, or more, considering it can create a blocker for each attacker. Phyrexian Obliterator seems like a big rattlesnake, but as a threat, it only beats for 5, and no one wants to block it, so it effectively just has unblockable, and as a defensive piece, it is less effective than Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker. It just had less offensive impact than I wanted, and came down too late to matter as much defensively. When this card comes into play, I should have things in the bag, or this card doesn't matter much. Either way, I just raise my threat level without actually changing the chance of me winning by that much.

For your suggestion of Defensive Formation, if I want a CMC instant combat trick to pull defensively, I would add another Fog effect, most like Darkness, simply because a black fog is unexpected, and because I have a very pretty Legends printing with an amazing William Shakespeare quote about death as flavor text. Why decide how people attacking you declare damage when I can just prevent it all?

I hope you don't interpret these comments as discounting your input and suggestions. I appreciate the suggestions and consideration, and enjoy the discussion. I think the deck as I play it is very subtle, and often things that are powerful end up making the deck as a whole less powerful. They raise the threat level, decrease my safety directly or indirectly, are not able to be taken advantage of offensively as much as they are in other decks, are not stand alone pieces but require specific cards in hand or play to make them optimal, and overall at best either do not encourage the table behavior that I need, or at worst encourage the table behavior that I am seeking to avoid. The deck survives and thrives as much because of what is in it as it does by what is not in it, and the key is understanding how it all makes other players play. Consistently making other players choose to attack each other and not me, then taking advantage of their game state to quickly win the game, that is the key to Aikido wins. If a card can't do this basically by itself, plus have a multitude of other uses, then it is hard to justify. I could be wrong, but that seems to basically be the case for all those cards you listed, hence why they did not make the cut.

Hi again! Nice changes; glad one of my suggestions made it in!

Sunhome is a good cut, I've always found it weak even in builds that want it :/

Mastermind's Acquisition will be a great fit.

Twilight Prophet is awesome. Limited bomb that is both easier to activate and more effective in multiplayer EDH. Can't wait to see how it works!

As far as Threaten effects go, from my experience with Brion Stoutarm, instant speed is what you want. Word of Seizing is a great permanent-based combo stopper. Besmirch is one I haven't seen though, and that seems to fit here nicely.

Will continue following this list with interest :)

Yeah, having a continuing dialogue about the deck often helps to clarify or crystalize my thoughts or understanding about the deck. Some of the best things about the deck have been after a suggestion or challenge from someone interested enough to speak up. MegaMatt13 has been a huge and continuing help, and I hope to have you recruited to test and explore ideas with as we go forward Suns_Champion.

Besmirch is awesome. Take a threat from someone, attack someone with it, then tell the owner to attack someone besides you with it. If it survives all that, directing it elsewhere for a couple of turns often has a huge impact on the game, and if it doesn't, it is removal with and interesting psychological impact on the game. It is pretty great the first turn a creature hits the battlefield, and can provoke some cool blood feuds.

I'm still waiting for delivery of my Rivals of Ixalan cards. I am really looking forward to them. I think that there is some serious power in that set, and there will be many Commander staples that will come out of it.

This is the most amazing deck i have ever seen, let alone having the pleasure of playing. I play in a group of people who tend to show up with a new 1000$ dollar deck each month for game night, to bring in a deck that had them all scoffing at me the entire game and sweep the game was one of the best experiences of my life. Thank you so much for posting this online, writing so in-depth and genuinely on your thoughts and choices. This may be one of the best deck pages I have ever seen. Thank you so much again!

W3R3PLATYPUS, it truly has been a process of amazing discovery and a labor of love. I really appreciate the complement.

So you built the deck and then played it? How close to my list was the one that you played? Were there any notable differences? Is there a decklist you have posted somewhere I could look at? Could you give a game report of what decks were played, how the game progressed, and then what sequence of events eventually resulted in a win? I get to see the deck play in my group, but I would love to get some feedback from the play experiences of others playing it in other metas. I would really appreciate hearing more about your game, and I think that it would be helpful for more than just me.

I could without doubt, would you prefer I posted a comment or sent you a private message with as much detail as I could manage?

If I may chime in, W3R3PLATYPUS I'd love to hear about your game too, so post it here! I'm just starting to proxy this deck and test it myself so I want to know how it went for you!

Post it here. You input is valuable to anyone who may decide to read this. I really do appreciate the feedback.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/funnest-deck-ever/?cb=1517446005This is the deck I used in my local group. Some notable changes I made we dropping the number of "Deal damage for each non basic"'s in the deck, since almost all the lands are non basic it tended to hurt me more than the others in my group, I kept one in just in case it has the chance to finish off a multicolored deck.I added back in the Gisella/hatred combo just to have the chance to take people out unexpectedlyWe have a lot of player's that like to do big targeted combo's, so I threw in imp's mischief, I'll often die for it but taking them out plus it's just fun to kill them with their own comboSol Ring isn't banned in my area so in it goes, Thought vessel because I kept having to discard from hand sizeAegis of the gods in because we have a fair amount of target combo playersOgre Slumlord, lot's of board wipes makes it a worthy inclussionOketra's Mercy, for the aggro decksMost other changes are just to bring the budget down to the level of a broke person

I'll give a few rundowns on how a couple of the games have gone so far, they won't be the most intricate stories but it will give you the gist of how the interactions went. Mono green mana ramp vs Mono green eldrazi vs Aikido; The game started out really chill for us, our opponents just ramping to high heaven, mostly using creatures tokens and cryptolith rites or omnath. The Omnath player was running Helix Pinnacle as his win con but when he got it to the 100 counters, we burning wished in an austere command and took his wincon and ramp rocks from him. The other player then got out the eldrazi who you can pay 20 and cast all the eldrazi from your side board, we used teferi protection to avoid the cast triggers to blow up permanents and went after him. Masterminds acquisition into Insurrection let us beat him down with all the Emrakruls, Ulamogs, and Kozileks on our turn for the ultimate karma victory

Rad. I have yet to play Mastermind's Acquisition. I also have no Eldrazi decks in my meta, but I bet that beating people with their own Eldrazi is super fun. I love this deck. Answers for every situation. It advertises its strengths, making people overlook it because it is not the obvious threat, then it beats face out of nowhere, and no one can really complain because its usual win cons are the ones that my opponents were trying to use against me, so they cant really complain that they are unfair, and if they think it is cool to win with them, it is hard to say that it is not fun to lose to them. Amazing. Thanks for the game report. Feel free to add more experiences here. We can all learn from them.

Yeah after playing more games last night my play group asked me to take a break from the deck for a while. Game 1 (Hydra Ramp, Elf Swarm, Me) Elf player did elf things with and made "Enough to kill everyone 5 times over" elves and then declared combat, tutored for rakdos charm and made him rage-quit. Then the Hydra player went and since I only had 2 plains and a sol ring "Was wide open" So swung at me with 95 power,I had selfless squire on the field so I used Comeuppance to wipe his board, he was tapped out then read selfless squire and condeded. Game 2 (Sram voltron, Edric Unblockable Weenies, Oloro Lifegain) Oloro player kept a greedy hand and was locked out of the game for 6 turns (lots of complaining about the random draws) so was practically non-existent We let the Sram player do what they do, he buffed his commander up early and was making a lot of aggressive moves but non at us, We got Marchessa out early and he took Monarchy so we had a tidy sum of assassin's to dissuade him. Eventually he decided to try and go for us, he and another player conspired to tap our creatures down (Can't remember how sorry guys) so we used Backlash to tap him down and deal 21 damage to him on his declare combat, he untapped him with one of his weenie's and then went to go attack but we doubled down and played Delirium. He was pretty salty about that understandably. Game 3 (Omnath Locus of Rage, Azor Lockout, Grixis Superfriends) A new person to the group showed up at this point, he was dominating the game with an Omnath Locus of Rage landfall deck, despite the groups warnings he found us to be the least threatening and cleared out the other players with our help, we used key to the city when he played Triumph of the Hordes on a Rancor enchanted Berserk buffed Omnath to help him take out the Azorious player with unblock-able infect. The Grixis Superfriends buffed a Nicol Bolas that he got out early with a Dark Ritual to the Point it had 9 Loyalty. So on our turn we used Act of Aggression to steal it, ult him and blow him out of the game, leaving him with 1 land and nothing else, we then Swung a Gisela at the Omnath player and used Hatred to OTK him. It was at this point I was politely invited to insert a cactus in myself and asked to put the deck away for a time.We did lose a game against a turn 5 Scion of the Urdragon commander damage, which seems to be the easiest way to take us out. If anyone has any ideas on how to protect the deck from early commander aggression I would be very interested in hearing it! I hope you guys enjoyed the stories from my recent games!

Awesome. Thanks for the amazing game reports. Opponnents getting salty is why I think that the deck belongs in a large and rotating meta. Familiarity breeds contempt. Getting beat this way sometimes is fun. Getting beat just about every game is not fun.

As for possible early commander aggression, I would suggest the Vow cycle. I prefer Vow of Malice, since giving them intimidate when they can't attack you is great, but giving them first strike with Vow of Lightning, or vigilance with Vow of Duty, since both can be used against you by enhancing their ability to block, is not as great. You could also consider Darksteel Mutation, even though it makes part of their offense ineffective for use against your opponents. Any of these are pretty good, and could replace or be added to Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, etc... as spot removal. I have tried all of these, but my meta did not have super fast voltron decks, and I wanted to have the versatility of the spot removal that I currently use for taking out strong utility creatures or commanders who have an effect on the game that is not related to combat. I will continue to think about the super fast voltron decks. Usually my Maze of Ith, Kor Haven, Spires of Orazca, Delaying Shield, Solitary Confinement, Forcefield, Delirium, Backlash, Fog suite, spot removal suite, Threaten effect suite, Rattlesnake suite, and suite of cards to encourage them to attack elsewhere all keep my losses to voltron under control. That being said, the only real contenders in that category in my meta have been Omnath, Locus of Mana and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and they are not super fast.

I personally love the interaction of Selfless Squire with another Fog. They feel safe after the Selfless Squire has already hit the board, and they swing at you with everything. Fog, they are tapped, and you can swing for more than they did. You can sometimes bait people into overcommitting by dropping Selfless Squire to prevent even a modest amount of damage when holding another Fog. The usual game plan for someone who you think holds a Fog but doesn't have much to retaliate with is to attack into them. They need to be forced to play it, then you alpha-strike. That is what most people do against this deck when they get to know it. They force the Fog, then alpha-strike. I can often bait them into overcommitting by dropping the Selfless Squire against a moderate attack. Usually this makes a 10/10 Squire or more. When they see that big beater and what they think was a wasted Fog, they decide to take me out before that Squire can get a chance to get bigger. They figure that they can withstand that 10+ damage, even if I survive, so they swing with everything trying to take me out. Then I drop a Batwing Brume or something, survive, and they are tapped out. I get to swing into them for sometimes more than 40. Crazy turnaround.

Thanks for the upvote and the suggestions. I have played all of those cards in this deck.

Orzhov Advokist can be cool, but it always felt like things got out of control. People would build a crazy board state over time, but each player for whatever reason seemed to be reminded that I was there each turn, and they always seemed to go though a decision analysis each turn trying to decide if it was time to kill me with those creatures that I was helping them to build up or not. It is ok, but actually presenting opponents with the choice to attack me seemed to make them want to attack me. Ask, "Is it time yet?" enough, and you will be surprised how soon that comes. It didn't work like I wanted.

Spellshock and Kambal, Consul of Allocation suffer from the same problem as each other, one that I am hoping to overcome with Twilight Prophet. They are slow annoyances that don't just win the game that turn, or even in a few turns. I believe that the optimal offense happens in a turn or at most two. Spreading your offense over multiple turns builds animus that threatens to keep you from winning. This is also why I have not run Blind Obedience for some time. That is a great card, but can build that slow animus that kills your innocence, and can make you a target, but never really seems to win the game by itself. Twilight Prophet has a similar problem, but it draws cards, and this combos well with a pillow fort lockout at the end of the game. Hide behind a wall, dig for a wincon, keep a Solitary Confinement alive, and ping them down as you wait. The addition of card draw makes all the difference.