yeah, I had tainted remedy in my version for a while and too often it just sat there. that's why I think Erebos is a better life gain hoser. it can always be used as a card draw engine even if it had no life gain to shut down

Exactly MegaMatt13. Every card needs to do something useful every game.

Quick update from the weekend. I am still punishing myself by going against the Jhoira Paradox Storm and Kambal Lifegain Control.

First game I lost to Jhoira going off on turn two with a pile of Rocks and a Paradox Engine. I had only played a tapped Godless Shrine by that time. She shrugged and we shuffled up and played again. Not sure what to say.

Second game, Jhoira dropped an Ancient Tomb, an Island, and 6 Rocks on turn 2. I figured I needed to be super aggressive, and I had a fantastic hand for not losing turn 2 this time. I played Hide // Seek -> Seek, planning to exile the Paradox Engine. Jhoira Pact of Negationed it. Crap. At least I sort of Time Walked her. I ramped through turn 4 and held a Word of Seizing as Kambal played his commander and Path to Exiled Jhoira for another Time Walk. Finally Jhoira plays a Tezzeret the Seeker and upticks it to 5. I figured it was a perfect time. I wait for my turn, then Word of Seizing the Tezzeret the Seeker , -X for 5 to send it to the graveyard, delaying the tutor for Paradox Engine and I tutor up my Sunforger. Jhoira durdles for a turn, Kambal beats on her for every artifact that she plays, and holds up mana for responses. I play Queen Marchesa, and hold mana up for a Monarch top decked Anguished Unmaking and a Sunforger response. At this point, I can't remember the details, but Kambal seems to control the board, keeping Jhoira in check with single target removal until she starts taking an uncomfortable amount of damage to Kambal tax and a couple of Sunforger equipped Queen Marchesa attacks. Kambal takes her out with an Exsanguinate she can't respond to, and now it is me and Kambal. I pillow in, play an Erebos, God of the Dead, then Kambal plays a series of spells and hits some Extort triggers, and eventually I end up Forking a Debt to the Deathless played against me while holding a Mana Tithe, Reverberate, and Teferi's Protection in hand.

Jhoira Paradox Storm is a beast. If there are more competitive decks than her, I am not sure I want to play them. Still, Jhoira Paradox Storm isn't a guaranteed loss for Queen Marchesa, it is just probably a loss.

Hey precociousapprentice, loved reading through the deck and explanations. I'm super interested in trying this out. I have a question about how you'd pilot this deck around a group of people who don't like to attack? My playgroup usually tries not to attack people (even if incentivized via curses/card draw/free dmg) to not draw too much aggression/hate through most of the early and mid game. How do you usually deal with that (outside of the obvious disrupt decorum mass goad)?

Elywood, I would go after what they do best. How do people win in your meta? Take a strategy that encourages overextending and the reversing that on them. I am actually in a similar meta right now since the most powerful decks are combo and control with non-combat finishes. My process has been:

1. Don't lose.
2. Copy/steal their stuff and beat them with it.
3. Occasionally throw down my own wincon that doesn't turn out to me magnet for removal.

It is working pretty well, if not as perfectly as it was against purely combat focused decks.

My playgroup doesn't do infinite combos or crazy explosive cEDH decks. But I'd say its still probably in the 70-80% power range. Our games are definitely slower than the ones you describe and usually involve a slow attrition-y grind via recurring things with lots of value. Usually its an attack here or there and lots of cards like Blood Artist or Gray Merchant of Asphodel that slowly drain the entire table until someone can be finished off. A timely Word of Seizing on a board wipe with Blood Artist could be huge, but other than that I'm trying to picture how to interact with the board

I had a win in a 1v1 against Kambal Lifegain Control today. I used Praetor's Grasp twice to steal both his Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood followed by a Boros Charm burn to start the infinite. It was beautiful to steal his wincon to beat him with his own strategy.

Serenity is the best artifact/enchantment removal around - as long as you stay away from using them. Akroma's Vengeance is costly, but it works, and Rout can change the board immensely (in your favor) because it can be cast as an instant. Additionally, Rule of Law or Eidolon of Rhetoric can be extremely punishing against decks that try to combo off early game, or at least get a lot of things out.

Serenity would be a disaster for me. I would lose all my stuff, and waiting for my upkeep would basically allow Jhoira to go off during her turn. I was actually cobsidering Rule of Law, and also Nevermore. Both would hose a large number of decks, not just Jhoira, but I am pretty sure the salt would be thick. Still thinking, but I basically need something to hose Jhoira in the first few turns or we all lose.

Any reason you don't run Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep? She turns Marchesa and Virtus into serious rattlesnakes, gives your other legendary creatures some additional combat tricks, and is on additional tool to potentially affect combat between other players.

• Hey, it is more casual, but I thought you might get a kick out of this. The Brown Spider
• It is a divergence from the attempted "lands matter" garbage that everyone is trying to pigeon-hole Jund into with the new commander set. Silly to do so just because Wizards marketing misnomered it. I would say "politics matters".... maybe "crackback matters"

Vandalblast???? I mean it can be a little slow but it is a disaster for any artifact deck... and you can perhaps ramp into it by turn 2 or 3.

Have you considered Rowan Kenrith in here? Seems interesting

Any cards in C18 looking good in your eyes? I'm looking at Treasure Nabber and Xantcha, Sleeper Agent as interesting cards. I think treasure nabber is ramp in colors that historically don't have ramp. Xantcha is probably a questionable meta call, it's got some politics built into it, but it's going to draw hate from 1 player.

I second the Treasure Nabber suggestion, kind of. On the plus side, it takes advantage of any strong artifact-based ramping that pops up and hoses Paradox Engine combos that relies on rocks. On the negative side, it's a prolific card which will probably draw hate and unwanted attention.

I think if I go for housing Paradox Engine, it will be much stronger than Treasure Nabber. I am currently stuck trying to figure out how much I tune for oppressive combo and storm decks, or maintain what has been for most of its existence the heart of the deck. If the later, Xantcha will likely make an appearance.

Any advice on potential substitutions against stax-y decks? Had an interesting game yday with an Aminatou, the Fateshifter, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Roon of the Hidden Realm. The Roon deck quickly tutored for a soft board lock with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Seedborn Muse, Draining Whelk + some other removal/recursion (Eternal Witness, Duplicant) all with Roon blink and Thousand-Year Elixir making it near impossible to interact with. Even playing basically archenemy we couldn't stop the lock on board. Any ideas on some good card substitutions to stop it?

Elywood, I would suggest that you look at things that target ETB abilities. This list would be completely unaffected by a little Stax aimed at ETB abilities. Try Tocatli Honor Guard and Torpor Orb. There are many decks out there that focus on ETB abilities, with both Roon and Brago being about the most obvious, but some Meren and Riku also fill that role, and many combo decks depend on ETB abilities. Those two cards both efficiently shut down those generals, as well as ETB dependent combo decks. It is also pure flavor win to play cards in Queen Marchesa that hose Brago.

I may be late to the game here, but how about Sulfuric Vortex to stop those decks from gaining so much life? Maybe Skullcrack could be useful too. Sorry if those don't help!

+1

Thanks for the suggestions McToters. I had seen Sulfuric Vortex, but not Skullcrack. Both are interesting. My first reaction to both is that they don't do enough in isolation, and I am not sure how they synergize with the rest of the deck. Every card needs to fulfill multiple functions or be outstanding and synergize extremely well, or over perform against many deck archetypes. I am struggling to see it with these cards, despite the fact that both do what they are meant to rather well. I will continue to consider what they would mean, and maybe I will find a small adjustment that would make these play really well. Thanks for the suggestion, though. I do appreciate it.

Found a couple of interesting cards. What do you think about Boros Battleshaper, Insult (as a potential wishboard card), Worst Fears (wishboard)?

precociousapprentice I totally understand wanting the cards to be more and synergize with the deck better by also doing their unique abilities. You could always run a sideboard and throw one of them in when you're playing against the Life-gain machines. Again, there is still the problem you mention with doing too little and not synergizing but by being sidebord it isnt a "staple"/keeper of the deck.

Quick update with some evolution of the deck, even though I need to update my decklist. I went to a LGS that I had never been to today. Was in a 4 player pod and over two games I faced Sidisi BUG Dredge Zombies, Food Chain Prossh, the same Jhoira Paradox Storm, the same Kambal Combo Control, and a janky Azusa Lanndfall deck. I had made a few changes before going, knowing that I would face storm combo and likely other combo in a competitive environment. I won both games I played. It took some serious threat assessment, some serious surgical excision of specific threats, and some changes in my deck list to log both wins.

Highlights of Game 1 were:

• Exiling Aetherflux Reservoir on turn two from Jhoira's deck with Hide // Seek because Jhoira already had Paradox Engine in hand. She subsequently cast it as soon as possible on turn 3 to avoid my other ways to dismantle her deck. She would have stormed off the next turn, but I Anguished Unmaking'd it. Jhoira was hamstrung for the moment.
• I beat Sidisi shortly after this with a Merit Lage token created with a Vesuva. Bring the Aggro when you can.
• Kambal was taken down when I Backlash'd his 68/68 Serra Avatar. Turn their strengths against them.

Highlights of Game 2 were:

• I dropped a Rule of Law that basically killed the game plan of both Prossh and Jhoira, delaying the game as I assembled an unbreakable fortress.
• Prossh's face when I Burning Wish'd for Slaughter Games and exiled the Food Chain from his hand before he could assemble a winning combo.
• Prossh's comment about my deck playing so many silver bullets against their decks.
• Riding an unblockable Master of Cruelties to beatdowns of both Prossh and Jhoira, despite both going off and going through most of their decks before they fizzled without finding an answer.
• Both Prossh's and Jhoira's faces when I offered to draw with the super janky Azusa deck who had played about 30 lands and not much else that game. Azusa took the draw, leaving both the combo players feeling totally ripped off. Golden.

I will update the decklist with some changes, but suffice it to say that I swung slightly stax against combo. Seemed to work pretty well.

I was researching this a while ago, apparently when targetting Dark Depths with Vesuva, it will still come into play with the 20 Ice counters since it copies all ETB effects of the target land. Unlike Thespian's Stage which can be used to make an instant Marit Lage with 2 mana.

I was considering taking it out myself simply for that reason alone, but with the addition of cards like Praetor's Grasp, it may be worth keeping to copy lands you can't produce mana for?

I meant to say 10 Ice counters... oops.

Also, I guess another very situational use of Vesuva would be if you already have a Dark Depths on the field before playing your Solemnity, and then playing Vesuva copying the Dark Depths.