Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 749 | 913 COMMENTS | 208054 VIEWS | IN 387 FOLDERS
No Kataki, War's Wage? It's evil against artifact decks like Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain
August 26, 2018 7:23 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #3
Plahbie I was thinking about that, but now I am just considering Null Rod. I think it may be stronger, and hit more archetypes. Currently, Rule of Law seemed to hose it pretty well.
August 26, 2018 10:05 p.m.
Bloodytrailz says... #4
Heya precociousapprentice, I have a question for you (admittedly, regarding my own marchesa deck and card choices.)
If you did not have access to the monetarily expensive tutors (demonic, grim, vampiric) would you slot in things like diabolic tutor, mastermind's acquisiton and maybe beseech the queen (although this isn't as great in a 3 color deck) or would you just look away from tutors all together?
Currently trying to piece together my final list for my upcoming purchase later in the month and trying to figure out if I want to keep these mana-costly tutors in the list or just believe in the heart of the cards and run tutorless.
Queen Marchesa, Politics & Pillow Forts .. I'm sitting on a bunch of maybe-board cards unable to decide what makes the final 100 in my list.
My meta is far less competitive and much more casual with the typical players being:
Player 1: 1 deck only, mid-range cat tribal with Arahbo, the Lion's roar (barely modified c17 precon deck) -- Very emotional player, easiest to politically manipulate as long as somebody is a bigger threat than me or has done something to inhibit him earlier in the game, if I help him out he will remember it (give his stuff unblockable or double strike etc)
Player 2: Derevi pre-con deck with some minor changes (not a powerhouse derevi deck but he kinda plays politics with it) and the C18 pre-con bant enchant deck.
Player 3: Newest player to the meta with a budget higher than the rest of us... plays Kaalia and a modified C18 bant enchantments precon deck.
Player 4: Plays 1 of 3 decks atm; a tribal pirates deck, an alesha who smiles at death combo deck (karmic guide/revellark shenanigans) or the c18 pre-con esper deck (aminatou).
September 2, 2018 7:44 p.m.
ThaneGarrus says... #5
Hi what do you think about adding fury storm from c18 as a way to push through counterspell heavy decks? Eg, Casting marchesa 2-3 times a game can easily copy create 4 copies of comeuppance against a yuriko player holding up counters
September 6, 2018 3:16 a.m.
ThaneGarrus says... #6
Not to mention it can be tutored for with sunforger and turn opponents game winning spells into your own or amplify Eg, a medium comet storm for 10 to your comet storm(s) for 40
September 6, 2018 3:30 a.m.
bullred1mc says... #7
If i had the time, i would like to make a version of this that is budget friendly, maybe sub $100 if its in slower metas, and sub $350 in slightly more tuned metas.nonetheless this gets a +1
September 6, 2018 7:37 a.m.
I've recently stumbled upon Rage Nimbus and instantly thought of how well it could fit in this deck. It seems like a great way to deal with all the utility creatures/commanders that are so abundant in EDH and it has other uses as well, plus it quite suits the theme of the deck. Has it been suggested before? What's your opinion on it?
September 21, 2018 1:18 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #9
Wow, that is very spicy, SurpriZe. I had not seen it before. I will have to pick one up and see how it plays. There could be a lot of ways that activated ability could benefit you and a super cheap 5/3 beater is pretty amazing.
September 21, 2018 6:47 a.m.
Why no Gideon's Intervention or Nevermore for other people's commanders? Also what about Curse of the Nightly Hunt and a pillowfort?
September 26, 2018 5:26 p.m.
Bloodytrailz says... #11
Plahbie I never thought about using gideons intervention or nevermore like that and oh my god that is so deliciously evil haha. Great way to shut down a combo deck that relies on it's commander especially in non w/g colors (ie mizzix or jhoira).
As for curse of nightly hunt, there are probably just better ways to invoke the same effect. Fumiko the Lowblood gives you the effect, asymmetrically globally and gives you a potentially strong blocker if people decide to start sending things your way. Goblin Spymaster is another that is asymmetrically global as well, for the same CMC as curse of nightly hunt. The only benefit of the curse is that it's not removed by a board wipe and there's not that much incentive to remove it since it doesn't really prove to be a major threat in most cases. If you really want to get oppressive War's Toll is a fantastic one too (probably the best of the bunch, but it will draw IMMEDIATE hate from the table which is generally not what an aikido strategy is looking to do).
September 26, 2018 6:08 p.m.
MegaMatt13 says... #12
In general I have found forcing opponents' creatures to attack actually backfires. Often out of spite they will attack you when forced (human psychology: people don't like to be controlled). Cards like Besmirch, Disrupt Decorum, Xantcha, Sleeper Agent and Rite of the Raging Storm avoid this problem since they aren't allowed to attack you.
September 26, 2018 7:40 p.m.
ThaneGarrus says... #13
Any tips for dealing with decks that cause life loss instead of damage? I find it hard keeping Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow at bay, Kor haven and maze of ith have been all stars but they do eventually hit land removal and extra turns, fog spells are easily countered and akido spells are inapplicable
September 26, 2018 7:58 p.m.
MegaMatt13 says... #14
precociousapprentice, what do you think about the new Crush Contraband card? I like that it's searchable with Sunforger. Not sure if it's worth a slot.
Also, what do you think about Mangara of Corondor from Battlebond as a rattlesnake?
September 26, 2018 8:21 p.m.
Bloodytrailz says... #15
MegaMatt13 I think crush contraband is a decent card, it's less modal than return to dust that's also less restrictive (and crush contraband is stronger with a sunforge fetch). I'm not sure if i will slot this into my list, but it's very VERY close. I might include it in place of wear // tear out of my list. It's 1 more mana (but with a sunforger fetch we don't care) and it exiles instead of destroys which is almost worth the 1 mana if you cast it from hand in some cases.
Mangara i'm not really sure about personally, i looked at her with intrigue but it's a 3 mana "maybe i get to exile something". It fails in comparison to Anguished Unmaking. It can be stolen and used against you; it can be board wiped before activation or it can be removed by targeted removal (which is okay, because it's mana for mana and a card for a card... but this puts you both behind parity with the rest of the table). I don't think i'd be aiming to include her in my list personally.
September 26, 2018 9:59 p.m.
For something similar to making your enemies attack each other, cards like Brutal Hordechief (you can activate his ability at any time), Bitter Feud (choose two of your opponents), Mystic Barrier (This card looks weird but can be GREAT), Choice of Damnations (just very fun late game), Porphyry Nodes (punishes aggro), and Sorcerous Spyglass (planeswalkers, commanders, etc.) are all very good.
Also in addition to cards like Gideon's Intervention there is Voidstone Gargoyle - it's good with eminence and some other effects, but Gideon's Intervention is more versatile because of the no-damage clause.
September 27, 2018 12:09 a.m.
precociousapprentice What do you think about playing Restore Balance in this deck? The best synergy it has is with Teferi's Protection , considering that you have so many tutors, the combo is easy to pull off, but it can also act on its own as a pillowfort card.
September 29, 2018 4:10 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #18
Man, I am way behind. I will get to addressing these questions. I have just been super busy with kids and work. Stay tuned. Sorry.
September 29, 2018 8:56 a.m.
Also, why wouldn't you play Quietus Spike instead of Virtus the Veiled? It seems that with all the tokens and even some fliers, the spike will do so much more work in the long run, which is usually the case with this deck anyways.
October 5, 2018 3:07 p.m.
Emergency comment in case you haven't discovered this interaction I found testing some of your new cards tonight: Delaying Shield + Mirage Mirror allows you to pay 2 to prevent all damage for the turn. You can make the mirror a shield, stack triggers so that the mirror shield gets the counters, then the mirror will go back to normal before your upkeep and the counters will never be removed. Great for those of us that can't afford Forcefield ;).
October 12, 2018 1:23 a.m.
TheCaptainsLog says... #21
Wonderful deck - precociousapprentice thank you for putting in the time and effort into putting it all together and including such a detailed write-up.
I made a very similar version based on yours and have been playing it for a few months now.
A highlight was going 1v1 with a highly tuned Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder deck that was worth a small fortune. He played 4 or 5 permanents on turn one! It looked like he was going to run away with the game, but I hit him with Virtus the Veiled + Suspicious Bookcase. It still looked like he was going to run away with the game until I slowed him down with Kambal, Consul of Allocation. It still looked like he was one draw away from victory until I played Solemnity and Dark Depths and took the victory. My hands were sweaty at the end. We even drew a crowd of onlookers anxious to see who would win.
My advice for others interested in building this: Righteous Aura is a great budget substitute for Forcefield, imo. This has been mentioned before, but is buried in these comments. I've also gotten a lot of mileage out of Whispersilk Cloak, both for the shroud and unblockable.
October 14, 2018 9:24 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #22
Sorry for leaving everyone hanging for so long. Ran into a busy section of my life. I have some changes I need to log, and will get to them soon. I had been playing a fair amount recently, and realized that my competition has been getting really strong, less battlecruiser, less combat step wins, and more combo wins. Control has been a smaller component of the decks I face, and usually just amounts to some counterspell protection for their wincons. This has pushed me into investigating stronger control strategies, and I have put some more stax-y style cards in. The previously mentioned Nevermore and Sorcerous Spyglass have appeared in the list, and have performed well. They are basically like a counter that you get to cast well ahead of time.
The other thing I have done is shore up the rest of my decks. It is important to make sure that this deck isn't the only one you play. It is amazing, but has some weaknesses, and one of it's strengths is that people don't know how to play against it and underestimate it. Playing it every game lessens that power. I only play it about every third game now. Given that I have slurred toward some stax cards, I decided to investigate stax as a play style. I have a Meren that I slurred strong stax, a new Gaddock Teeg hatebears combo deck that is super fun for me and torturous for everyone else. I also made a Selvala mono-G big mana deck that is a blast and puts some crazy pressure on my opponents. It is not pure combo, but can play like it, not pure battlecruiser, but can play like it, and will roll people unless disrupted. I am also experimenting with a 4C hatebears partners deck, and have not yet even settled on a color combination. I swing between not-R and not-U. Both run Tymna.
For something more concrete that have changed, Virtus was less than I had hoped. He is not Master of Cruelties. I think he was replaced with Nevermore. I lose less this way, and win just as often without him. It was worth trying, but I already had that effect, only better. Nevermore is crazy strong, even if it really pisses people off. I drop it on the combo players. Their game plan is to ignore people until they win anyway, so getting them off their game and interacting is actually a pretty Aikido thing to do to them. Nevermore has worked wonders, and has had very little negative impact on my game as far as being targeted.
Anyway, more later. I plan a writeup update, and I am considering a section for tuning to your meta. I have new appreciation for this idea, and thought I would share.
October 15, 2018 12:07 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #23
Another small update. I have been playing Queen Marchesa somewhat less recently so that she does not get stale in my meta. The meta has some really strong combo, and I am hoping to change that with what I play. I have added a very strong Selvala, Heart of the Wilds as a crazy ramp into strong aggro. It is amazing, and has made a splash with it's very short clock. I have also added a Gaddock Teeg hatebears, and plan on a Tana and Tymna Blood Pod variant that I am almost ready to unveil. I hope to make combo less appealing because I want more interaction. I hope that the combo players feel the need for interaction, and have to slow their decks down. So far, I have had a little success, as each deck has started adding some answers to my plans, and this has opened the door some to slightly slower decks, control style decks.
Yesterday I played Queen Marchesa against a table with a new Lord Windgrace lands matter deck. He had been mostly mopping the floor against everyone, as no one could match his engine that is all land based. He went 50% for the day over 8 games. Much stronger than you would think. I completely dominated his deck, and won the pod due to it. I still am amazed at how well rounded a control deck Queen Marchesa is, and find it holds it's own against a large variety of deck that it should probably have no business beating. I love this deck.
October 21, 2018 8:08 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #25
Ancient tomb is pretty good. It is a solid addition to just about any deck. I think it is less solid in this list than in some, mostly due to the heavy color requirements of my mana curve. I have little room for colorless mana sources, and the ones I have need to play double duty in some way.
precociousapprentice says... #1
Wow HBParabol, you are totally right. I feel a little silly. You are also right in that I am not sure I will remove the Vesuva, given that I am open to stealing more interesting stuff with Praetor's Grasp, but that does lower the offense some, and would have meant a totally different game today.
August 26, 2018 2:03 a.m.