Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 749 | 913 COMMENTS | 208054 VIEWS | IN 387 FOLDERS
precociousapprentice says... #2
I agree that it plays pretty slow for cEDH. It is truly surprising, though. I beat a lot of players who overlook it, even in relatively competitive pods. I have never faced Breakfast Hulk, Blood Pod, Seasons Past Tasigur, or any really good Gitrog decks. It has beaten a strong Kess storm, Food Chain Tazri and Food Chain Prosh, Brostorm Selvala, Edric Turns, and Paradox Sisay, all because they thought that I wasn't a threat and overplayed because of it. Boros counterspells are very surprising, and the deck plays a lot of other answers besides. The deck will mostly have nothing to do against a turn 2 win from Breakfast Hulk, but even decks with consistent turn 4-5 wins get stopped all the time by this deck. It was never designed to play cEDH. It still plays pretty well in competitive tables, but I would be surprised if it ever wins a tournament. That is not what it is for. If you want cEDH control, play Blood Pod, or Seasons Past Tasigur. If you want something relatively unique, that can play well at most levels, this is a really fun deck.
Your assessment of price is skewed by what I personally have in the deck, but it really doesn't need this exact list to be the same deck. The current list is not even the exact pile that I have sleeved up right now, as the deck is more of a philosophy and general suite of cards than a set in stone deck list. It can, and is, modified easily and all the time. You can drop the price. Ditch the ABUR duals, the expensive tutor suite, the Rector, the forcefield, the dark depths, the solitary confinement, and virtually every card that costs more than $30, and you could have basically the same deck, just maybe a little less consistent, a little less flashy. But many of the cEDH decks that are super good have similar tutor suites, ABUR duals, and often run a more expensive mana rock suite. Sure, there are much cheaper cEDH decks. This could be cheaper, too. But I still think those cEDH decks are not quite as classy. Especially for me, since I brewed this all myself, with the help of a lot of great people I have met in brewing. That counts a lot to me. I run some cEDH decks myself, now that I play in a tougher meta. But Queen Marchesa will always be my true love.
I have actually been thinking about tuning to meta recently. I have been playing more cEDH level play. I have lots of room to tune to the meta, but even where it sits right now, it still plays well, as long as I know what I am up against. Threat assessment is key, since it is designed to easily adapt to what is thrown against it. The problem is that tuning to cEDH will make it less tuned for less competitive levels, and may lose some of the character of the deck. I know I could tune it well, though. It would involve hate bears and a combo or two, something more deadly than sneaking into play a Merit Lage, and it would turn into some sort of "reactive combo" or "midrange combo" deck, with some stax type elements, and still keep much of the aikido flavor. If I did that, it would look super deadly to casuals, and so would lose some of the aikido flavor for those tables. It has made me think that flying below the radar is a very meta dependent thing. What is common and overlooked in one meta may be scary in another. Tuning to your meta is something I need to spend some time thinking about, and ultimately, may be beyond me alone. I only know so many metas, and I may need help with understanding others.
November 7, 2018 9:20 p.m.
You lose a lot of personality when you start tuning for cEDH. I think the fact that you are constantly changing the deck and adapting or testing new things makes your deck unique and stand out, so keep doing what your doing. I've killed all of my fun with some decks when I tuned them so far that the amount of flex spots in the deck became so very narrow and minimal that it just became boring to pilot.
Your deck is incredibly viable and I think in my current meta this deck would be a lot of fun to see in action on the table. I haven't seen anyone do Aikido justice as well as you have and I hope you stay true to this playstyle because this deck is a masterpiece and looks like loads of fun to play. I could only dream of piloting this deck.
November 7, 2018 10:17 p.m.
This would be really fun with my current Thantis deck. Not sure I would win, but games would have some nutty interactions & would be heavily expedited.
November 7, 2018 10:19 p.m.
AdNauseam12 says... #5
You make excellent points and I agree with you completely. Now that I reconsider it, a deck like this could make it's way into my meta with the help of some stax pieces. I also think that what I had meant to say earlier was that the deck is less focused than I would like it to be and the meta at my store does not allow for much if any wiggle room.
November 7, 2018 10:22 p.m.
Grave upheaval seems to combine animate dead and word of seizing, what do you think?
November 8, 2018 10:20 p.m.
Bloodytrailz says... #7
SGDJ I wouldn't say that it acts like word of siezing... word of siezing's really unique aspects are a) Split second and b) It takes any permanent.
Grave upheavel is basically beacon of unrest (but worse; no artifact; no shuffling back into deck) but +1 mana for haste.
November 9, 2018 midnight
balefulstriix says... #8
Love the deck! I've been following for a long time, please do find time to make an update soon, will be eagerly awaiting your new design cheers!
November 9, 2018 2:29 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #9
Bloodytrailz got is exactly right SGDJ. It is a simple reanimate, with better options out there.
I know. I am slow. My life got crazy busy this year, with more work responsibility, and more games of EDH, but less time to write about them. I have been holding off because I have not yet worked out the tuning to meta thing in a way I like.
November 9, 2018 7:39 a.m.
Immortalized says... #10
Hello Apprentice, I'm quite the fan of what you have going on here, and if you could find the time I was wondering if you could assist with a wip of mine that is Bloodstained Chessboard. Thank you for any time you might be able to spare on it and if not, well, have a nice day anyway.
November 9, 2018 9:01 a.m.
You still cycle this deck, I have seen a couple of times in the defaut page, it's been a while since you created.
This time I'll not let it pass without coming here to say that this deck is aewsome!
A friend of mine built this list with some differences(we don't use side and here in Brazil is impossible to acquire forcefield) and the deck is fabulous, he steal so much wins that my Dakkon deck even transformed a little bit to use your ideas.
Congratulations! +1
November 21, 2018 4:16 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #12
Thanks for the comment Patolea. It is inspiring to hear that Marchesa is an international phenomena.
As for the Forcefield, I am not sure I run it because it is great, or because it is a rare and super fun card, and I have one. It can be replaced without much loss of function.
November 21, 2018 6:58 p.m.
Divine Presence is an option... Not the same thing though, would interrupt your own big swing plays, unless you are using "life-loss".
November 21, 2018 9:01 p.m.
Gleeock The point is that the deck uses the force of the opponent against her/him. With this "Pillow" you disable all the Aikido section, things like Backlash and Deflecting Palm becames a Lightning Bolt, without saying of Price of Progress and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight.
November 22, 2018 4:22 a.m.
Yep, that is true. Unless you are heavy on "life-loss" engines... But I do understand how this cripples your own swing/surprise plays
November 22, 2018 9:56 a.m.
maxvantage says... #16
I love this deck! I've been following along for half a year, read every update and every comment with interest - thank you so much for all this hard work!
I'm in a new playgroup and fighting combo. Last night I faced off against a combo you've won against before - the Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood combo. I was holding Comeuppance because I'm under the impression that it won't stop this combo, since it only prevents damage and the combo results in "life loss".
Can you comment? If I'm right, I'm in need of cards that prevent "life loss" and not just "damage" - any thoughts on this?
I'm also really curious how your play patterns have evolved now that you need to be more "aggressive". For example, I'm loathe to attack with Queen Marchesa even when I can, because I don't want to draw ire. In this new meta, I'm wondering how to balance the Aikido ethic with aggression.
Thanks again for building this deck and documenting it so well!! It's my favorite deck and by far my most versatile.
November 27, 2018 12:27 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #17
maxvantage, you are correct. That combo has to be stopped, the damage cannot be prevented. My favorite way to stop it is to steal the card and beat them with it. Following this, I like to exile or at least destroy one of the enchantments. Each iteration requires a trigger to go on the stack, and then resolve to trigger then next enchantment trigger. You can interrupt this with standard instant speed interaction. Not as classy as stealing the enchantment, but still effective.
As for aggression, you should be as aggressive as you can be without placing yourself in a position of the target of the table. Aggression should be masked as being defensive. Always ensure that your aggression is understood as attacking a direct threat, even when it is preemptive. I think my best work on this subject was in the section on achieving a true aikido ethic in MTG. That was a breakthrough for me.
Thanks for the upvote and the comment, I am glad that you like it.
November 27, 2018 10:52 p.m.
I love this deck. I used it as an inspiration for a deck my play group both loves and hates. They play with genuine fear that they'll fall victim to their own cards. Have you ever considered Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep? I've found it's a nice deterrent
December 3, 2018 4:11 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #19
I had run Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep rimfire24 for a very brief time pretty early on. The only reason I don't now is how tight I find the mana base to be. I run a couple of basics, a rare few utility lands that produce colorless mana but with pretty extreme value, and the rest are all at least 2 color lands that ETB untapped at least most of the time. Adding Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep would fit well enough, and is a good alternative to some of the lands in the deck, but I don't personally run it anymore. Still, a really great option.
December 3, 2018 9:14 p.m.
RobotCowhand says... #20
I've been using Cleansing Meditation in my meta and it's doing work!
December 17, 2018 12:42 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #21
RobotCowhand, that is a great card! I have thought about it many times, but never run it. I am sure it works well.
December 17, 2018 8:08 p.m.
precociousapprentice hey i just wanted to say ive followed this deck for about half a year now and its my all time favorite! Brilliantly constructed and very fun (but hard as hell imo) to play.
December 18, 2018 12:11 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #23
Weefy117 I agree about the difficulty. It requires a really good knowledge of what other players and decks can do, and really good threat assessment. If you don't have that, then you miss your opportunities to really impact the game, and you lose.
December 18, 2018 5:59 a.m.
precociousapprentice ya it definitely takes alot of time for me to really pilot this deck properly. Theres been atleast 3 games where after i lost, i thought about what i couldve done *if anything) to win,and realized i had lethal and missed it. Every turn counts with this deck, but its very amazing and very rewarding when you pull off a win. You did an amazing job with this deck.
December 18, 2018 2:54 p.m.
precociousapprentice I came here Just to share that I kill The table with Virtus and The Demon that do what Wound Reflection do.
Can you explain with other words what threat assessment means? This expression dont exist in my language.
AdNauseam12 says... #1
This deck is really cool but honestly I could never see myself building it. It is way to expensive for a deck that is just way to slow in my current meta. The people that I play with would rate this more of a 5/10 than an 8/10
November 7, 2018 7:31 p.m.