To add to my previous comment, would you also want to remove Mastermind's Acquisition or leave it there for the tutor ability?

SirOmega at some point in the past comments or in the primer I covered that Burning Wish is a meta choice. No one has ever objected me playing it when I just show my wishboard ahead of time, and tell them I am only going to wish from that very short list. Not a single time has anyone objected, not in any random game store, not at any random friends house, no place or player has ever objected when I allow them to look at my wishboard before the game. So I ALWAYS get prior agreement, before every game. In essence, this makes them within the rules. I establish their scope to just the wishboard. Half the time, I think people are a little relieved that the cards in my wishboard are not in my deck, and must be wished for.

If someone did object to me playing that card, I would just pick one of the wishboard targets, or possibly another tutor. Either one would be fine.

Just to clarify, wishes are not against the rules. They are against the rules without prior agreement about their scope. So I ensure that I discuss things prior to playing, and I have a pre-build scope for the Burning Wish , specifically a small list of cards that I can pull from, my sideboard list. It has been satisfactory for all my opponents at this point.

SirOmega, my LGS allows wishboards during EDH FNM events - with a level 2 judge present.

Clearly, there is no such thing as a sideboard for commander regardless of any "judge" calls as that are the rules so technically wishboard card don't work. you can have them in your deck but no legal target exists!

15: Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup. for an official event, the playgroup has nothing to say nor does the judge but for casual events with casual folks, it will probably be fine.

Kiyomei Traditionally, you are correct. However, a 10-card sideboard is a very common alternate house rule if your playgroup allows it.

for casual events sure! no problem with that!

or even just fun playgroups who cares !!!!

Kiyomei, that rule that you and SirOmega have quoted specifically invites a discussion about how they work. With that in mind, they only don't work if the context of your play has not had a mature conversation about scope that is allowable. In any "official" event, they will have to either allow for this discussion, which easily could be that there is no scope for these cards, or that they have an unlimited scope, or some agreed upon limited scope, like a preconstructed wishboard. I have never seen an "official" EDH event, so the idea that these are not "official" rules is a little funny.

The reason that I point this out is that the official rules are that there is space for these cards in EDH, and that this space just needs to be play connte3xt specific and agreeable to those present who are playing. That space is specifically created by the rules. This is different than the officially banned list. These are specifically not banned. They are specifically allowed by the rules, after a mature conversation.

So those actions are completely different actions by the rules committee. "These are not allowable cards." is different than "These cards don't work unless you agree on their scope." Everyone should keep that in mind. Wishes are not banned. They require a discussion about agreeable scope. That is all. Just talk about them, and then play them. They are really fun, and not at all broken. They are fair cards that expand the fun of the game.

the official rule still states there is no such thing as a sideboard regardless of any "mature conversation" we have a lot of commander events in a ton of shops here and even a league that lasts 3 seasons and the majority of them are very competitive so not casual fun like this deck. None of them allow for a sideboard thus wishboard cards do not work... for events it's not about the fun casual part like you could enjoy and agree upon in some random playgroup but of course, you do whatever you want in those!

even identifying the scope for these cards would break CEDH. So no I don't think any capable judge would allow for these. asked three of them so far, none of them would even consider it...

The only mention of wish cards in official rules I've found is:

Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander without prior agreement on their scope from the playgroup.

It does require a mature conversation with your playgroup to come to an agreement of the function of these cards, as stated in the official rules. I suppose a judge may not allow them in a sanctioned competitive event, but I can say that they are allowed in my playgroups at my LGS, a club on campus, and with my friends where I play semi-competitively and they haven't been an issue at all so far. It doesn't feel at all like an unfair advantage to me, but rather it allows for some interesting answers and plays to be had. I don't quite understand what you find gamebreaking about their use in a cEDH environment either, so I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on that claim a bit.

Regardless, the rules clearly state that these cards do not function unless your playgroup agrees how wish cards can be incorporated (which spawned the common practice of the 10-card sideboard in EDH). Both sides are correct to an extent.

The source of the rule can be found here. Rule #13 under the "Play" section of the rules.

EDIT: I know I came into this conversation late, so I admittedly looked at the more recent comments and not the earlier ones where this rule was already quoted haha whoops.

Kiyomei, the sideboard is actually misnamed above in the list, only because that is my only option that Tappedout allows. It is not, and never has been used like a sideboard in any other format. It is a wishboard. It is what I show people as a proposition for the extent of the wish cards, like the actual rule #13 says you should do. I don't side things in or out. I use them as the sole targets for the wishes in the deck. That is a very fair use for the wishes, and has actually never broken the game. To be honest, it is more fun than powerful, and another tutor would actually be more powerful. It rarely actually changes the game.

That being said, I play against cEDH players regularly, my meta is no longer casual. Wins are possible on the first turn in my meta, and people often go off in the T2-T6 range. This started as a casual deck, and can still be played against fun decks and produce fun games, but that is not all it can do. The thing is, it scales to the power level of those it plays, because the power brought against it is what it uses to win. I win more than my fair share of games against even the powerhouses of the format. This is fun and casual, but not the way you seem to imply, and it is much more competitive than you are implying. It takes a lot of skill to play, and a lot of knowledge of how other decks win, but it will take it's share of wins.

And even with people playing cEDH in my meta, no one has ever had a problem with my wishboard. Because it is actually more casual than cEDH. I could probably even cut it and make the deck stronger. But it persists, because it is fun, and has been a part of the deck since the beginning, and that is good enough for me.

@DiverDown Simply put, sideboards do not exist in Commander... I really do not care for your casual friendly games at home or in some random club you do whatever you like there, of course, xD... (Houserules are also nothing official but for casual events for good fun who cares right!) I'm baffled you can not see how having more options than you should is really unhealthy for 70-80% of the Real CEDH decks... and I'm not talking about masterminds as you can just as well play diabolical tutor it's equally bad at 4 mana... but at 2 mana your deck extends to a however foolish randomly given sideboard of whatever random size you decided on when you are on a really thin ice with a format that has absolutely ZERO DATA income to provide you with proof as to what this really does... Anyway, I'm really thankful for our very wise and non-foolish judges at our Commander league (1 Season = 3 Months worth of games every week)!!!

And @precociousapprentice no offense but this deck is not really something you could call competitive if this is what decks look like in your meta and lose to it I don't think you grasp the scope of some of these real CEDH decks again no offense it might be good but it's not that good... I myself play at a league where these sorts of decks show up as well and they never do well consistency wise they end up somewhere around the top 80 to top 100 players even after attending and not missing a single event ;)... I'm not telling you to amp up or remove anything because you do you I don't care about that, but don't give me the BS of a Wishboard card being allowed in actual League or a tournament... Again I've got three close judge friends and a level 2 whom all said no if it's for a prized event when I asked...

I have to say, this is one of the most fun decks I've piloted in a long time. The Akido playstyle is right up my alley. I love being able to answer anything and everything my playgroup throws at me. The list I'm running has dropped some of the pillowfort options so that I can run a small Stoneforge package in it. I looked at the deck, realized I was already running Sunforger, Greaves, and Quietus Spike, I might as well slap in SFM and some swords!

I'm wondering if you have ever considered [Etali, Primal Storm]? Seems like it fits right into the theme of the deck. It has to stick and then swing which can sometimes be a big ask, but I'm considering it for my Queen Marchesa deck as it has such a high ceiling.

Kiyomei, I think that you are probably the perfect example of why this deck does so well. Faster, more powerful decks lose to it all the time. The sum, played correctly, makes a play experience that transcends the list. I am almost glad that you come here to make your claims. I was worried that the total of the attention it had gotten would make it play less well because people would stop underestimating it. Seems I may be wrong.

Don't be delusional! Still, I am glad you enjoy the fun and casual decks... but let's be honest here I mean you play "fog" and even "deflect stuff" as your win condition and mostly anti-aggro cards so by default yes your deck is slow and meant to be played at a more casual level...

Also, pillow fort cards.... "pillow fort" You know why they named it like that... A pillow fort is not a real fort it's fake and for the children to enjoy and have FUN, cards like these are not even considered a threat among high-end Stax or combo decks and are an utter joke but great for casual low tier gameplay with loads of aggro and stalled board states as it will definitely do the trick there!!!!

Again nothing wrong with that but your claim that this is Competitive is not true... Yes, it might occasionally draw into a swords to plowshares and stop someone but that's all you can do... No offense or harm meant but as a contender in the top 3 of a commander league, i've seen my part for consistent decks and this is not one of them.

Also, me commenting on your deck doesn't magically prove anything, at first I didn't even check a single card you ran because I scrolled and saw pillow fort section x D... I was here for the wishboard comment... and that's resolved as it is...

so I bid you farewell and enjoy your fun casual commander games!

@precociousapprentice Man, this dicussion about the Wish list went too far.

I didn't understand why they are so salty about this and the discussion even went for your deck don't be competitive. Like it is something bad or disrespectful lol

The rule had already been quoted here a several times, more clear impossible, just get the approval of your playgroup.

This deck is amazing, works really well with Casual until Optimized, it's true that you can do little about a player comboing off in the T1 or 2, but who cares, let them play with their friends who like this.

Kiyomei graced me with his input on my Queen Marchesa deck as well some time ago. I'm glad I'm not the only one he provides such valuable feedback for!

Honestly, that was really unnecessary and uncalled for rudeness towards a deck and player. This is one of my favorite decks on the entire website and it's more creative and unique than anything Kiyomei has ever put out, so it bothers me to see it trashed on in such a dismissive and thoughtless manner. This person is objectively wrong in all of their claims.

So it's a somewhat funny thing that people always talk about T1-T2 wins. They almost never happen. Even with decks that report consistent goldfish wins that early, in play, they don't go off on T1-T2, or even consistently T3-T4. You can see this in most cEDH metas. You can see it when you play the most competitive decks and players in your meta, my meta, or even when you show up in random LGS and ask to play their best guys with their best decks. You can watch the videos of the best of the best in the format when they play. Go watch Lab Maniacs. Go watch TT3. Go watch cEDH TV videos. Pick your favorite cEDH source. The games still last many more turns than even 4-6. People don't go off, even when they have all the cards to, because they have to wait until there won't be interaction. And in every good deck, there is interaction. You don't need to race to the win on T1-T4 to actually still win in cEDH. That is a total myth.

On top of this, your goal is not to beat everyone who faces you. That would be really hard. In most games I play, it is a 3-4 man pod. This is actually the biggest difference between EDH and most other formats, and it is the only format that is actually competitive that is this way. It is multiplayer. That. Changes. Everything. You don't have to beat everyone. You have to not lose until you can beat the last guy left in your way. And you definitely don't have to do that by yourself, with your own cards. Most victors in a multiplayer MTG game will win after other people clear the way for them. cEDH is exactly the same way, just with stronger decks and usually (not always) better players.

This deck doesn't have to beat everyone. This deck doesn't even have to stop everyone. It has to not lose. It certainly doesn't have to do this based on the sheer power of each card in the deck. It doesn't have to beat every deck or archetype. It has to beat the last guy standing in its way, and not lose before then. Many times, other players will be the ones disarming the guy in the lead. I don't need an answer to every threat, no one does that, even the most "competitive" decks in the cEDH format. I need an answer when there are no other answers around the table. cEDH is interesting, since many times the wins are combo, and everyone will lose if it goes off. That usually means that only 1 of 3 people need to answer a bid for the win. This deck doesn't need to be the guy to answer everything. It has to be ready when the right time comes, and no sooner. It does this rather well, when piloted well.

The funniest thing about the way the deck works has been highlighted in this discussion. It was admitted that the deck was completely written off, without even reading the list, without seeing it played, and without considering how it works, or the track record. Because the deck appears weak without even truly trying to understand it. That is exactly why the deck wins when it does, and is why it was built in exactly this way.

“If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.” - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Mission accomplished. It will continue to beat "superior" decks because of this exactly.

The last comment made was removed. It is the first time I have ever done that. It was inconsistent with the values or goals of this particular page, and was antagonistic to the community that has been built up around this deck. It was directly confrontational and derogatory to other commenters, and provided nothing of value. Those types of posts will be removed. What will remain are constructive and respectful discussion, even if that discussion results in disagreement, as long as tone and content remain respectful of all involved, including the silent readers who make up the majority of the almost 90,000 readers of this page.

Please carry on, the continued discussion is valuable to what I consider a somewhat rogue and fun archetype. When I get some more time, I still need to update the list to what is currently in the paper version, as well as create a section on tuning to your meta and local power level. Thanks to everyone who has continued to support the deck and page.

Thanks precociousapprentice for the time and effort you have put into the deck and the respectful and thoughtful interactions in the comments. Keep up the good work.

I think my previous comment was missed in the midst of rules debating so I'll copy it here:

I'm wondering if you have ever considered Etali, Primal Storm ? Seems like it fits right into the theme of the deck. It has to stick and then swing which can sometimes be a big ask, but I'm considering it for my Queen Marchesa deck as it has such a high ceiling.

Also have you thought about including Necromancy in addition to or replacing Animate Dead ? I've found the additional flexibility (And potential sick plays) well worth the additional cost and have considered running both.

Older20 My thoughts about Etali are:

You have to attack, and attack hard, this creature is big, drawing attention, remember when precociousapprentice says: You have to affect the state of the game but cannot be recognized as a threat.

Have you considered Leyline of Sanctity or other such effect? Would help protect from targeoeffects like Aetherflux Reservoir