Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 749 | 913 COMMENTS | 208036 VIEWS | IN 387 FOLDERS
Winterblast says... #2
Considering the overall strategy of sitting back and waiting for the perfect chance, Manabarbs would be awesome.
February 27, 2017 8:28 a.m.
UnleashedHavok says... #3
I look forward to hearing how Exsanguinate does in the deck! Something else I've been thinking about. (I know, shocking) With the amount of draw potential this deck has, have you thought about Thought Vessel and/or Reliquary Tower? While play testing my deck list, I've been having to discard things I want.
February 27, 2017 9:51 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #4
One of my favorite decks of all time was a "type 1" Manabarbs deck back in 1994 when "type 1" meant something. Manabarbs is amazing, but tends to paint a target on your back. I have thought about it for quite a while, but with the idea of the deck being "let them overextend, then punish them for it", I feel like it may be counterproductive.
I have thought about Thought Vessel especially, but I am not sure what I would replace. Maybe Coldsteel Heart. I sometimes feel like discarding a card can also give an opponent a false sense of security, and there are times I know how I am going to win, I may even have it in hand, and I am just waiting for the time to play it. Discarding a card and heaving a huge sigh can be that last thing to make them to overplay, and then I get to win. I may test it, though.
I have also thought about heading into a new meta, one that does not know me. I may drop a Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood combo in here for that. Both combine well with my entire offense, I can hold them until I can use them, avoiding the target, and in a meta that is OK with combo, it provides a strong wincon combo where each card forwards my goals on it's own. It will not find a permanent home, but for a surprise bomb, it could be fun.
February 27, 2017 11:10 a.m.
Thanks for the comment on my Marchesa deck! I think yours also looks pretty sweet. Looking at yours, I want to put Felidar Sovereign in mine (I wouldn't be sure what to cut though, tbh. And I keep forgetting) and I want to run Mana Tithe and Dawn Charm (Countering spells in non-blue decks makes people really mad :P)
I really would recommend Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts to you. It's an extra copy of No Mercy, but also It really has helped me end opponents with an unblockable creature. Strionic Resonator seems like a must-include in your deck as well? You get another free card with it often, as the monarch, and it can help with squeezing extra value out of cards like your Michiko Konda.
Just my two cents, though. I love the look of this deck!
March 1, 2017 6:54 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #6
I had Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts in it for some time. In play it always came out really late, and then usually did not add a lot beyond what I already had in place for a defensive board state. I get the unblockable creature angle, but really, a single unblockable creature is not often how I win, and if it were, I would probably add Whispersilk Cloak for that slot. I often win with Acidic Soil, or Arcbond, or Backlash, or Deflecting Palm, or Rakdos Charm, or something along those lines. They overcommit, do something that shakes up the board state that they think gives them the advantage, and then I pull out a riposte counter attack. The games often go something like, early game with early attacks being directed someplace other than me due to a Rattlesnake effect I have out, midgame with a build up of Pillow Fort cards, and my board state becomes completely secure with no one able to attack me while other players fall to each other. In this time, I may build up a few attackers, but they are not often able to attack because they are my defense as well, and often an offensive exchange is not in my best interests, even if a defensive exchange would be. As I wait, I slowly sculpt my hand until the right moment happens. Often, it is some board wipe that eliminates my fortress, and then an attack happens that I fog or reverse. I follow this with some large counter attack like Acidic Soil to finish them off. Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts doesn't really fit well in this strategy since it is slow, comes out too late to be a good Rattlesnake, and it's damage potential is small for it's price. Not a big enough bomb.
As for Strionic Resonator, I try to make sure that every card is effective all by itself, or can win the game outright when played. I continually think about removing Reverberate for this reason, but I think that the potential outweighs the costs. Hatred is similar, except that it just ends games. Cards can be added for their synergy, but only if they stand on their own as well. With Strionic Resonator, I am not sure that just doing more of what I am already doing is good enough. Necropotence is a bomb that draws a full hand if I need it, and is why I have it in over Phyrexian Arena. Strionic Resonator doesn't do much more than Phyrexian Arena, but has to be combined with something to even do that. Then we get into all the Pillow Fort or Rattlesnake cards, and I have significant overlap and duplication of all those. I guess if I am adding anything to the deck, I want something that aligns with what it does, but is not just another of what it already does. The deck is consistent, I rarely ever think, "If I just had more of that think I already have, I would win." Usually, I am thinking, "Now I just wait for my moment to end this." Show me an unconventional bomb with an effect that is completely outsized for it's cost, or something that does a better job of what the deck already does, and I will be interested. I appreciate the look and the comment, and I will think about the suggestions, but on first glance, I think that the deck is too tight for either suggestion right now.
March 2, 2017 8:28 a.m.
UnleashedHavok says... #7
I enjoyed your comment about going into a new meta that doesn't know you. It definitely had a fun feel to it. I am curious how that particular combo would fare in your deck since the curve is so low. It feels to me like you would have to change the way your deck operates to fit that in.... I could be wrong though. I also liked your comment about faking your opponent out by discarding and sighing reluctantly.
I do have a new question to pose. Have you ever considered adding first strike enablers to pair with all the deathtouch? I've been considering things like Archetype of Courage so you can just sit back and block. Just one more thing to make your pillow fort more deadly and less appealing to poke.
March 2, 2017 10:11 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #8
Interesting. I will have to try Archetype of Courage. My initial thought is that I would be reluctant to add something that is not overly useful by itself. That being said, it does turn every deathtouch creature into an amazing blocker, and an even better Rattlesnake than it already is. The idea of owning the first strike step is pretty tempting, although, I am afraid my total number of deathtouch creatures is a little low to fully take advantage of it. Given that one of the creatures is Queen Marchesa, my commander, and her Assassin tokens, I can exploit it more than it would seem. With that in mind, if I am trying to exploit only a card at at time, I may not need something that gives all my creatures first strike. If that is the case, I have to ask if I can get that ability cheaper if I only need to give it to one creature, and then, how much better is it to give it to more creatures? Interesting line of thought. I will have to consider. If Archetype of Courage is good, would Asha's Favor be as good, or does taking away first strike give me that much more? What about Chariot of Victory? If we are going single creature, maybe Ethereal Armor, Shadow Lance, or Hyena Umbra would be best? If we are just thinking about Queen Marchesa, what about going with Rise of the Hobgoblins, to get that multifunctional essence that many cards in this deck have, and then add an independent wincon? This subject is definitely worthy of consideration, even if the decklist does not change.
March 2, 2017 12:32 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #9
Had a fun game yesterday. Edric, Spymaster of Trest was putting the hurt on the entire table, but generally avoiding me due to having out Delaying Shield, and him wanting to take advantage of the draw and not just do damage. He piled up a bunch of flyers, took out the Tolsimir Wolfblood elves and wolves player, then turned on the Omnath, Locus of Mana player. I one-shotted Omnath, Locus of Mana with a Backlash, then Batwing Brume'd followed by Rakdos Charm'd and Toil / Trouble'd Edric, Spymaster of Trest with a completely full hand to finish him off. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight tried to hamstring me with a Devastation to basically reset the game, which I Boros Charm'd, to leave me unscathed and him basically crippled. He never recovered and I finished him off with Queen Marchesa and a few other attackers. Super fun game.
March 2, 2017 1:07 p.m.
UnleashedHavok says... #10
That sounds like an incredible win! Definitely a thoroughly enjoyable game I'm sure.
I like throwing ideas out to more experienced players. I always get more ideas along the same lines as my original thought. Out of the single target spells you suggested, I think my favorite was the Hyena Umbra. With that card, if for some strange reason you don't have an aikido card in hand it would at least save whoever you have it attached to from a board wipe. To be honest, I liked all of the enchantments, especially since they can be more difficult to remove.
March 2, 2017 2:19 p.m.
Simplyafish says... #11
I will also throw a vote to Archetype of Courage's use in this deck . Its been an all-star in my preliminary testing, especially if you intend for other players to fight over the monarch as you fill your board with assassins. I originally had Rise of the Hobgoblins as well, but cut it due to it only combo-ing with Queen Marchesa. However, if you decided to do a more token/control build (I started with a Breath of Fury combo package with cards like Hero of Bladehold or Mardu Ascendancy) I would say that hobgoblins definitely has a place.
March 2, 2017 5:07 p.m. Edited.
precociousapprentice says... #12
No plans for a token army, just brainstorming. A strong theme in this deck is cards with multiple functions, one of them being as a wincon that can basically come out of nowhere. Rise of the Hobgoblins fits this pretty well, given that it's main function is to give Queen Marchesa first strike, and would usually be used for that, but being able to drop a bunch of 1/1s that could also be given first strike would have uses at times, even if just for swarm blocking. That being said, I am not sure it would always pay off, and may at times be a dead draw. I think I may try Archetype of Courage, though. It does seem interesting with a deathtouch army. Even with a single deathtouch blocker, it may affect decisions. I often have to decide how much I want to take out an attacker, since Queen Marchesa is usually sitting there, and blocking with her means I can take out one attacker amongst whatever is aimed at me, but she often gets killed, too. With Archetype of Courage, I get to keep her, and try again next round to take out the next best thing. Even when I can't block all of an attack, this could shift the cost-benefit analysis toward not attacking me. It could be another card similar to Duelist's Heritage. A subtle Rattlesnake, turning a decent and guaranteed 1 for 1 into a bloodthirsty attrition machine. People don't like attrition, and may just avoid it. A drop followed by Queen Marchesa on turn 4 for a hasty attack that will take out any blocker seems pretty good, and can make going aggro with Queen Marchesa (something that I am discovering is a very viable option, especially in 1 on 1 games) much easier. Interesting thought.
March 2, 2017 8:07 p.m.
UnleashedHavok says... #13
As long as you don't play Rest in Peace type effects, Valor could be a good option as well. Especially since you should be able to discard him.
March 2, 2017 10:54 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #14
Just to let anyone following know, I have kids, one 10 and one 8. This may be the greatest deck for playing against kids ever created. It makes for exciting games, it is a difficult deck to beat, and everyone gets to play an interactive game where their deck is allowed to develop without disruption until the game ends. When the game does end, it is always very exciting, and everyone has a good time, no matter who wins. My 8 year old loves to play against it. He just beat me and is gloating all over the house right now, and I get to give him a big fist bump because the win was really exciting. Love this deck. My favorite so far.
March 4, 2017 5:10 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #15
I am likely going to take out Felidar Sovereign. It is hated out immediately, does not have evasion, and is only a midsized body that comes out late. It has been a non-factor in every game. I will likely do a little adjustment of the decklist here soon. I will probably add a few deathtouch flyers, especially ones that drop early, in an effort to keep up the low CMC wall of defense, but add a little evasion to the attack potential. I may also consider something that may be considered heretical for this style of deck, but Dread has been less impactful that some of the earlier deathtouch creatures. We shall see, but I may remove it for a lower CMC alternative, even if it is not as powerful.
March 11, 2017 11:33 a.m.
Simplyafish says... #16
How much of a problem is a lack of flying blockers for you? If it's less about the air combat and more about having some cheep deathtouchers, having less pillowfort and/or encouraging other players to take the monarch allows you to regularly generate Queen Marchesa's tokens. Plus, if you have a draw outlet like Necropotence out I've found that you want the assassin tokens more than the extra cards. However, having card advantage in these deck styles is an important position to maintain and these aren't the best colors for it. Have you looked at all at Mentor of the Meek? It can either be the best of both worlds or a dead draw so I currently cut it from my list, but it does serious work with the Queen.
March 11, 2017 2:53 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #17
Mentor of the Meek is an interesting suggestion. I will have to think about it. If I go for more small and early deathtouch creatures, that may create some nice card advantage with most of my creatures. I have been thinking about Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, and with Queen Marchesa or Ophiomancer, this could turn into an engine of both destruction and card advantage, not to mention that Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim is also a small deathtouch creature. My only big creatures are Felidar Sovereign, Dread, Gisela, the Broken Blade, and Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs. I still like Gisela, the Broken Blade and Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs, but the rest have become less than effective. These are all cool ideas. Anyone know much about Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim? I will look into synergies with her and the rest of my deck to see if this is a direction I want to go.
March 11, 2017 3:22 p.m.
LeeRoy_Jenkiins says... #18
Sorry to ask this, but could you put any changes in the updates section? I really like your deck and would love to see your changes and why you made them.
March 11, 2017 3:39 p.m.
precociousapprentice says... #19
All the changes and the thought process behind them have been documented in the comments section above. You may need to go back through the archived comments to see them all. It has been an interesting evolution. The deck is exactly as the deck list above documents, I have yet to make the changes reflected in the recent comments. The primer gives a lot of the reasoning behind many of the inclusions and exclusions. I have wanted for some time to start including more of the cards that have been removed in the excluded cards in the primer, but I have not been up to the task of writing it up yet. It will get there soon.
In the mean time, I have to spend some time thinking about what has been working, what has not, and why. I have had many games recently where Solitary Confinement has saved my butt for many turns, but my card draw capacity has basically been too low to do anything but keep discarding the Monarch card draw to the Solitary Confinement. I think I need a non-draw step card draw engine besides Necropotence. Phyrexian Arena won't cut it because it is a draw step engine. Toil / Trouble has added a little, and it has allowed me to come back out from under a Solitary Confinement, but something more than this would help. Wheel of Fortune would work great, but it was anti-synergistic with the reactive nature of the rest of the deck. A low CMC one shot card draw card for more than 2 cards would be great, but most of those are not in . Painful Truths may fit the bill, but just about everything else is much more expensive or pretty weak. The above mentioned Mentor of the Meek may also fit the bill, even if this is more of a slow card engine than a sudden recovery card. Mind's Eye would do much of the same, without needing to play a creature to get it to trigger, which may be necessary given that Mentor of the Meek requires two cards to start drawing cards, while Mind's Eye can do it all by itself. The downside is that it is expensive at a CMC of .
As for wincons, if I end up taking out Felidar Sovereign and possibly Dread, I need some new wincons. Master of Cruelties would fit with the high impact deathtouch creatures with low power that this deck seems to be heading toward. It could get hated out as quickly as Felidar Sovereign, but as a deathtouch first striker, it can act as a crazy good ground blocker if it is not in a position to attack right away, and it is really close to a one shot win when it is played. This may be a strong addition.
The suggestion of removing some Pillow Fort cards to allow Monarch to circulate the board more while I build an Assassin army is not a bad one. I have kept myself alive with a wall of deathtouch Rattlesnakes and a cushion of built up life from my lifelinkers as much as my traditional Pillow Fort cards recently. I am yet to have Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs build me an army, though that may not reflect his true value. Ghostly Prison has made it harder for my opponents to attack me, and has provided a decent stall for a few turns in several games as my opponents have had to choose between an attack and progressing their board state. Removing these traditional Pillow Fort cards would potentially free up some card slots for some more lifelinkers, more deathtouchers, or more card draw. I may see if removing the Ghostly Prison, Sphere of Safety, Windborn Muse, Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs package would free up slots for more deathtouchers and lifelinkers.
As a slight aside, Boros Charm has seriously pulled it's own weight recently. Multiple games have swung my way when a sweeper was played and I protected my stuff from destruction, leaving me to have my way with the crippled board states of my opponents. Seriously. Armageddon, Wrath of God, Austere Command, Day of Judgment, Planar Cleansing, Damnation. Every one of these cards has been thwarted by my Boros Charm. Amazing card.
March 11, 2017 11:04 p.m.
Your deck seems pretty cool! I'm a fan of the deathtouch theme. Have you considered Chandra's Ignition? When you target a deathtouch creature it's basically a 5-mana Duneblast with some extra upside.
Also, as a formatting suggestion, Batwing Brume probably shouldn't be listed under "Sunforger Package" since it's blank when cast off of Sunforger.
March 13, 2017 6:14 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #21
You are right, Frazzify. That was an oversight, probably due to how I categorized whatever card was in before Batwing Brume when I replaced it. I always play Sunforger with the knowledge that Batwing Brume is not a viable target, but in the list it appears as a target for Sunforger. It is now corrected.
I had not seen Chandra's Ignition. That is an interesting card, although it may be somewhat anti-synergistic with the deck. I try really hard to not blow up opponents' creatures. There are times when I would like to, but I always find that keeping them on the board is better than blowing them up. I have played wrath effects before. I used to have Sulfurous Blast as a wrath effect, but found that I used it too often and too soon, only to find that I could have won later if I had not blown up their creatures, or that I had finally found my defenses and would rather have them attacking each other instead of waiting to rebuild their board state. I have plenty of spot removal for problem creatures, and plenty of Pillow Fort cards to limit my potential to be attacked, so the fact that my opponents have creatures at all actually is a benefit to me. My current creature wrath is Arcbond. It is limited enough that I can only use it when they are attacking me, it performs the same function as Chandra's Ignition, and it's CMC is instead of . It has the subtle psychological effect of being a reactive effect, not an active effect. This means that everyone typically sees it as the fault of the person who attacked me, not as my fault. This is important when I want them attacking each other, not seeking revenge against me. It also helps to keep those who know my deck from attacking me, for fear of triggering an Arcbond retaliation. Arcbond also has a higher damage potential, because it is based off of the damage my creature takes, not the damage potential of my creatures, meaning that it is more likely to be a game winner than Chandra's Ignition. I think if I wanted an active wrath effect, both Wrath of God and Damnation are better at that job, with lower CMC, they don't need to be paired with a deathtouch or high powered creature to be effective, and I have both if I need them. As it stands, letting board states spiral out of control, making the crazy board states not matter to me, encouraging people to point their guns at each other and not at me, and when needed, having every big swingy effect in the deck really make a difference while maintaining the ruse that they did it to themselves are the underlying strategy that makes this deck what it is, and Chandra's Ignition doesn't really encourage this playstyle, and may even be counter to it. Thank you for the suggestion, though. I completely understand why you offered it, and I appreciate that you thought about the deck enough to make it.
March 13, 2017 8:02 a.m.
UnleashedHavok says... #22
So I saw that you are potentially wanting more fly power. Have you looked at Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief as an option? I have her in the list I am building and I think she has the potential to tip the scales in your favor, even with your desire to keep your mana count low. I figure unless your opponent drops something huge, she should be a deterrent. And if your opponent is making a huge play anyway you should be able to aikido it away.
March 13, 2017 8:52 a.m.
UnleashedHavok says... #23
Also, how have Exsanguinate and Archetype of Courage played in the deck? Or have they not had playtime yet?
I'm a fan of Chandra's Ignition as well, it's a amazing removal card. I totally agree with it not fitting with this type of deck. I think it fits much better with something like Zurgo Helmsmasher
March 13, 2017 8:59 a.m.
precociousapprentice says... #24
Funny. I had considered Drana, Liberator of Malakir as a potential, but had passed over Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief due to CMC. I am aiming at CMC for any replacements, unless it is absolutely amazing.
Exsanguinate has been good, not as flashy or interesting as some of the other cards, and the mana cost is limiting, but it still gets the job done. I would replace it with a more in-theme wincon, but I am still looking for the perfect one. Archetype of Courage has yet to make an appearance. We shall see.
I have also recently thought about adding Lightmine Field. Not exactly No Mercy, but maybe a decent Rattlesnake to replace Dread if it comes out.
March 13, 2017 9:29 a.m.
UnleashedHavok says... #25
I've been on the fence with Lightmine Field. A friend suggested it for my Marchesa deck but I feel like it could be a problem if my wincon that game is actually attacking. I don't know, I'm open to trying it.
precociousapprentice says... #1
Minor update. Removed Grenzo, Havoc Raiser. It was OK, but just wasn't the direction I wanted to go. I think that the creature count is a little too low to really support it.
As a replacement, I added Exsanguinate. I have thought about this one for a while. We shall see how it does. The spell element is interesting and scary given the desire to keep my lands in play count relatively low. It seems like it could be a nice finisher, especially in the early game when there are many opponents, and everyone's board is becoming relatively developed, and it would take just a medium hit to take out an opponent. Combine this with the mutli-opponent attack and what can be pretty significant lifegain from multiple opponents, it may fit in perfectly. We shall see if it changes my perceived threat level in a negative way.
February 27, 2017 8:04 a.m.