You guys are all making great points. I have been somewhat silent for a while, because I have been struggling with this very thought. There is a certain amount of what makes the deck special that just doesn't really belong in such cutthroat play groups. I have been playing other decks more often in my cEDH meta, and having fun with those, but playing this deck muck less. It says a lot about how this evolution has taken me. I am not satisfied with where it is at either.

I am planning to evolve the deck back some to where it was before. You all are very right about it. The fact that instant wins and infinite combos are really hard to pull off the aikido wins against means that I have to just plain stop them proactively. This detracts from the aikido nature of the deck. It still works, but has become less pure to the philosophy. I want that purity back, and this likely means that I will stick to unknown metas with tuned but not cEDH decks. I have other cEDH decks that are basically more fun than an aikido deck that is becoming more stax and less aikido.

That being said, I think the evolution has been very useful. Understanding what makes the deck work, what makes it fun, and ultimately what makes it special, required finding the edges of aikido. I think I have found them on this side of the reactive/proactive spectrum. Now it is time to return to where the deck functions best.

Please continue the discussion, I just wanted to add that you are all very right. This is amazing, because it shows that I am not the only authority of the deck. That is very cool.

RE: wishes

http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19039

http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

I have backups of the deck from Feb 2019, August 2018, May 2018, October 2017. If anyone is interested.

I’d be interested to see the variations in those stages of the deck.

I’d be interested to see the variations in those stages of the deck too, it'll be awesome!

1.May 2018 : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/10970921

2.August 2018 : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1137670

3.Feb 2019 : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1616721

4.April 2019 : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1823263

Huh... May 2018 didn't work.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1097092

RobotCowhand

I got a 404 for all those links.

Yeah, I don't understand how TappedOut translates the links... copy and paste should work.

Patolea, I have been thinking about your post about your struggles in a stronger meta, as well as the problems I was having in a meta that now knows the deck, has much more interaction, depends on combat much less for the win, and can win out of nowhere on just about any turn, and I think that I have one possible partial solution. I will likely try Dualcaster Mage and Twinflame in the next iteration of the deck. Both have strong aikido uses, and together they make for a good wincon. This slightly goes agains some of the philosophy of the deck, but are also strongly parallel to it. Keeping a combo in the deck requires some thought about how opponents will use their interaction, and may deepen the deck. This, combined with taking out some of the more pure stax type cards, reinforcing the aikido elements, should regain some of what is lost while positioning it better in a more cEDH meta.

precociousapprentice any ideas on changes now that Wishboards are less widely accepted? Should some of those cards just replace the wishes themselves?

precociousapprentice You have a very good point.

Im going to copy this coment in both precociousapprentice and MegaMatt13 since both their primers for Queen Marchesa were the inspiration to make my own list and I want as much people as I can who is discussing the archetype to discuss this idea. Also excuse my poor grammar please, Im not really good at english.

First of all, thanks you both for making those primers. This is easily my favourite EDH deck and I always have a lot of fun playing it, and most people enjoy playing against it too. The only thing that bothers me about this deck (the strategy in general, not this specific list) is that I sometimes have a lot of trouble closing out games where I am in a clear leading position, or that my aikido cards, even if they do a ton of damage, sometimes fall short of winning the game and its difficult to trick the same opponent into making the same mistake twice.

But I have seen a few cards in WAR that may be really powerfull in this strategy, and I think they have some synergy with common stuff we are already running.

The first card that sparked my interest is The Wanderer . I firmly believe that this card have some serious potential in Mardu colors because it adds consistency to effects that prevent/halves non-combat damage (or damage in general) like Delaying Shield or Gisela, Blade of Goldnight . But clearly, we are not short on pillowfort effects right? So whats the big deal? I'll be there in a moment.

I think that the card that gave me more wins was good ol Insurrection . And I think that Command the Dreadhorde has the potential to be a virtual second, cheaper and slighly worse copy. Be aware that this can resurrect creatures and planeswalkers from ANY graveyard. The most important drawback is that it can do a lot of damage to you, but with Gisela, Delaying Shield, The Wanderer and similar effects we can negate or minimizate most of the damage.

This also opens to run cards like Personal Sanctuary and being able to use mass burn cards like Price of Progress or Molten Disaster or Rolling Earthquake , this last two also double as board wipes.

And it may also open up for fun sheanigans with cards like Arcbond or Repercussion without risking killing ourselves.

I think I will try to adapt my deck to this burn subtheme while trying to keep the political/aikido main theme, but I would love to hear what everyone thinks on this. Thank you for reading!

Davihelio i really, really love your points! So much so, that im going to include those cards myself and give it a shot! Excellent thinking my man!

Weefy117 - I've been using these strategies in my list and I can confirm, they work. I use Rise of the Dark Realms instead of Command the Dreadhorde, since it's only a few mana more for a much better version of the spell that doesn't need any workarounds.

Repercussion is also a personal favorite card of mine, so I've been pleased to find it a home in the deck in order to punish go-wide strategies when combined with Blasphemous Act, Star of Extinction, etc., and it's been satisfying that requirement to great effect.

Rise of the Dark Realms is three more mana tho, and now and then Command the Dreadhorde can pick one or two planeswalkers which is great value. And since you can not always win inmediately the turn you use either of those, Command the Dreadhorde makes easier for you to leave some mana open for interaction if needed.

With this strategy, Im not so sure about running Merciless Eviction or Hallowed Burial since you want to use Command or Rise after a boardwipe. Merciless is probably still worth just for the flexibility, but Austere Command is probably enough for that matter.

Quick update above. Basically a pivot and total revamp.

After goldfishing, I am not sure where it stands. It seems to grind out close to what it did, but with more ability to pivot and win out of nowhere. Not sure what I think. I am pretty sure it is strong. I am still not sure how it plays when it has real opponents.

Did you just update your deck? ;)

Do you think its still worth playing dark depths combo if im not running a suped up perfect version like you just updated?

What do you guys think of Hall of Heliod's Generosity in this deck?

That's awesome! Back to Aikido style!!!!

Huge change! Can't wait to try it out. Thank you.

Hey precociousapprentice

I'm not a 100% sure I understand and like the changes. Yes I understand that you want to go back to the more aikido way, but I really have the feeling you tuned down the powerlevel of the deck. I'm looking a bit at my list as well and I am making some changes too.

I do like the addition of things like Ghostly Prison and Windborn Muse , they feel at home in this deck.

I got some really good results with Orim's Chant , maybe think about that one too. Going back to aikido and not playing Comeuppance feels strange as well.

I did remove the Helm of Obedience combo as well, for me it was unfun and a lot of people experience it in the same way in my meta. Yes it is a finisher, but I don't think it's in the way of the deck. That kinda brings me to my next point, by removing so many wincons Dark Depths for example, also thing's like Insurrection seems like a wincon as well. In my opinion there is no problem with stalling the game and extending it (that's what this deck does) but we do need ways to close it, especially by using our opponents power. Right now I have the feeling this build will just stall and then stall some more.

Same goes for thing's like Wound Reflection and Stolen Strategy , flashy? Yes. Aikido feeling to it? Yes.

Also maybe a Academy Rector ? Makes you go for your important enchantments and people are reluctant to attack you most of the time.

If it is worth anything, this is how I run it now. It's not in the most aikido way possible, but I try to keep the spirit alive. I kinda fell in love with playing a deck and calling it Mardu Control. Especially newer players go "wow, can red do that?" when I play a red counterspell or a copy spell.

I am really glad that you are updating the deck a bit more often. Please don't take my feedback in the wrong way. Your previous decklist resulted for me in one of the most fun decks I've played in my entire magic career (since legion). It took some while before I got used to it how to play it, but it is so awesome because it is so different. Maybe that's also the reason why I really want to give you this feedback and hopefully help improving (even if it is a little bit) your decklist.

So thank you for updating again and hopefully you have a bit more spare time in your personal life that you give us a bit more often a update of how the deck is being played :)

Queen Marchesa: Long May She Reign

Commander / EDH Ripwater

SCORE: 3 | 168 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

I don’t think the power level was lowered. I was actually afraid that the deck became too powerful. During goldfishing, executing wincons is consistent between turn 4 and turn 7, with interaction along the way, with one turn 3 wincon execution. The new wincons are faster and more consistent. I have only played it once in a real game, but had a turn 5 win with a counterspell in hand and castable. This may be the strongest iteration of the deck, I just need to figure out if it retains enough aikido to really call it that. Right now, it can easily play that role, but also pivot hard to a very fast win, with more than one way to get there. It feels very Midrange right now, but can easily play whatever speed the game needs, fast combo against slow decks, control against aggro or combo, and grindy slow against more staxy decks. I think I like the way it plays, I just need more play info.

For further clarification, the helm combo was threatening, but slow. Same with Master of Cruelties, Gisella, Dark Depths, they all announce aggression, but rarely execute a win right then. I need to win right when it is time, not a few turns later.

I ran out of room for Wound Reflection, and it got cut in an effort to run a low CMC list with more direct control. I would love to get down to an average CMC to around 2, while retaining enough things to make the deck feel and play aikido. I think that is at least close to possible.

Anyway, this is anything but weaker. The question is, does it still play Aikido?