Also, I play Silence over Orim's Chant . The fog effect is great, but affecting all players is better than targeting.

precociousapprentice thanks for the clarification.

So basically we are aiming for drawing our entire deck with Ad Nauseam combo?

Could you explain a bit more to me (if you want ofcourse) how you manage such a quick win? Often when I run the deck I sit quietly at the table dealing with stuff coming my way. Rarely I win fast and often I'm at the last 2 with the right hand of cards..

I'm trying to get my head around some of the changes you made to see the value myself to play them in my own deck :)

Basically do just that, except that the deck packs the ability to Ad Naus to a win, or to Dualcaster Mage to a win, or some of the others it had previously. You play control against Midrange and combo, you play combo against control, and you grind out in any game that goes long by constructing your fortress and drawing twice the cards as other people.

precociousapprentice, ah okay. Don't get me wrong, but is winning with that combo any different than helm + Leyline? I admire your decision to make the deck in a more aikido way, it's the spirit of the deck. But it still feels like you are forced to deal with a very competitive meta and thus playing these kinda (in my opinion) a bit cheap combo's and in no way in the aikido spirit you claim trying to go back to.

I've played I think over 30 games (a lot less then you have ofcourse) with your old build and I agree with your opinion about the previous build. I also often had the feeling we played more stax and too much big flashy things. But at least Gisela, Blade of Goldnight did exactly what we want to do, use our opponents power against each other AND serving as a wincon.

Also cards like Comeuppance already won me games, of in worst case scenario set my opponent a lot back. Where you choose to ignore these, in my opinion again, very good and thematic cards for the deck.

And things like Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder , Gifted Aetherborn or Serra Ascendant in what way to these add to the spirit off the deck? Putting those in while taking out Master of Cruelties for example? Also wouldnt Duelist's Heritage not be a better option for bruce? And also more in line of the deck? And card's like Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker ?

Yes, they are maybe less competitive, or at least more expensive to put down. But again I kinda have the feeling you are maybe in a very competitive meta.

Dualcaster Mage is something I'm still curious about as well... I love the Reverberate effect's. To the point where I run Fork , Reverberate and Reiterate (the buyback is worth it)

Also Rebuff the Wicked has proven very very valuable for me, when they try to go after your Sunforger

Again I'm in no way trying to bash on your choices or making fun of them. If it comes out like that, then I am sorry in advance. I'm just trying to have a healthy discussion with you :)

Another question, how do you deal with people smacking you in your face either way? I had moments where I really tried to lay low. Only having marchesa out (sometimes I was the monarch, sometimes I wasn't). But then still people tend to attack me for no reason what so ever. Or even worse take Marchesa out, leaving me basically open.

I will leave the fisrt part to precocious, but the another question I would like to participate:

This started to happen to me when the list was know by my friends, they know that it stays low on purpose and is not necessarily having a bad game, with this in mind they just keep attacking without a reason. To avoid death you end up using your anwers and in the late game it's harder to protect yourself against an alpha strike.

It's the tricky part of use an aikido, with regular opponentes they just deal 40 damage by 2 per time, so you end modifying the list to a more proactive style in order to survive, heaving a fly lifelink deathtouch resolves much of the problem of loosing life for unpretentious attacks, for example.

Patolea thanks for the response. I think you are right. It's exactly what happens to me as well. I now decided to rotate some of the cards constantly, not necessarily lowering the powerlevel, but at least be unpredictable. I took away now some of my bigger flashier plays, like Wound Reflection and replaced them with cards like Sudden Spoiling .

Maybe a way of gaining life back might be interesting, although I don't think a 6/6 flying lifelink is really staying below radar as well. I played it in my karlov deck and it rarely survived a turn... I think things like Contemplation , Umezawa's Jitte or Sun Droplet might be more interesting to play if we need some survivability.

My friend playing Sen Tripplets just chose me over 4 or 5 turns in order to use all my spells, no reason, just fogging and reverberating in the main phase, only because already know the deck.

In order to addapt you have to put more pontual removals or stax to make impossible to recast the general, if you try to aikido this you end up whitout hand and no chances of victory, he didnt attack, didnt use a single spell on me. This was only one example of what started to happen, I even dismounted the deck and turned it into a Avacyn, the Purifier to wait the dust settle down and use it again.

"I think things like Contemplation , Umezawa's Jitte or Sun Droplet might be more interesting to play if we need some survivability."

Now you have a very good point, totally agree.

Patolea Next to Ghostly Prison etc you could also try and run No Mercy ? Also Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker really helps with not being attacked.

I'm also thinking of running maybe Grenzo, Havoc Raiser . I often have problems keeping the monarch, if I can start to goad their creatures with a 1/1 haste deathtouch creature.... But not so sure how reliant that solution will be :)

Ripwater, that is basically it. I have found that when people know the deck, it becomes hard to win with slower wincons. Being able to just pivot from passive to active is essential in this style of deck. In battle cruiser metas, this can be reliably done with the opponents cards and board states. With more competitive metas, you need to pack your own win as well, because theirs are likely build on overwhelming synnergy, not something that you can easily redirect of steal.

With regard to a lower avg. CMC I recommend Cloudshift . This card is so flexible and perfectly fits into aikido style.

• It's a nice counter for spells targeting your creatures.
• Use it with Dualcaster Mage to copy an instant/sorcery for .
• It synergizes very well with Word of Seizing due to getting permanent control of the targeted creature.
• Become the monarch by flickering Queen Marchesa .
• You tapped all your deathtouch creatures and need a blocker? Cloudshift is your friend (does not work with tokens though).
• It's fetchable with Sunforger .

I have been doing some experimenting with lifegain and more streamlined pillow fort. I am slowly finding that hard locks are not as good as they seem, and often grab attention that is not good for the game plan. More subtle pillow fort cards are playing better, and turn out to be cheaper from a CMC standpoint. I am not sure where this will take me, but it seems promising.

What do you think about the new canopy lands Sunbaked Canyon and Silent Clearing ?

I think those lands are pretty awesome. I have some preordered. Not sure whether they will find a home in this deck, but they will definitely find a home in some.

precociousapprentice mind sharing what you're experimenting with? Would love to also test it in my playgroup and report back how it performs!

Mostly I just slurred the deck into midrange instead of stax. I drop as many ways to gain life and get incremental value as I can, including the Queen as soon as possible, and then wait to draw into combo pieces or the tutors to get them. Ad Nauseam with Angel's Grace/Phyrexian Unlife/Teferi's Protection will win just about every time, and Ad Nauseam with Children of Korlis, maybe with Sun Droplet, can also put you in great position without the crazy big cost and some nice lifegain potential, but also Dualcaster Mage and Twinflame will also just win in many instances. Protecting these combos can be as easy as Grand Abolisher or Silence, or any of the stack interaction like the various Forks, Blasts, Mana Tithe, or Lapse of Certainty. If you don't go for the combo, continuous grindy play with Marchesa, Tymna, Mindblade Render, Grenzo, or Stolen Strategy all lead to a significant amount of advantage, and the control in the deck means that you can mostly ride that out to insurmountable advantage. The rock package is super fast, so I am rarely waiting long to be able to play either combo, or start that grindy stage of the game.

Really, I am definitely impressed with how grindy Queen Marchesa can play simply because of the monarch. Bolstering that with other grindy style cards makes me feel like I just continually churn through my deck, putting pressure on opponents either win or not lose. It is a super fun way to play. It honestly feels similar to how playing Blood Pod feels, only without the stax.

As a fun aside, Mindblade Render is some nice tech to run against Najeela. When Najeela starts rolling, you get extra advantage out of her attacks. Not bad, and adds up.

What do you think about Command the Dreadhorde or putting back Insurrection as a finisher? Is that too slow?

It might be more cute than competitive or might have been mentioned in the past but I have had lots of fun with Tainted Strike. Being able to just tag it on to anyone's attacking creature when it is free lethal or using it in combination with a double strike or things like backlash always surprises the table.

Elywood, I've been having great success with Insurrection in my meta, which is fairly creature-heavy.

SGDJ, I've been running Tainted Strike and it is hilarious, as well as just super sneaky. You can even technically use it to survive an attack that would otherwise kill you; a 7 power creature coming at you when you have 4 life turns into 8 infect and living another turn.

I ran both tainted strike and hatred early in the evolution of the deck. As things got more competitive, the creatures got smaller and the damage came from noncreature sources. Both cards became less valuable. Since I had no other infect sources, tainted strike was often a fog for am single creature. In metas with bigger creatures, it is awesome.

What do you guys think of the newly revealed Repeated Reverberation ?

Weef117 : I think it's far too expensive for the effect. There is already two of these in the deck at 2 CMC - without the limitation on "your" spell. You also have to broadcast the play by having this in play before your action. Not a fan.

Regarding SURPRISE infect damage. This may win you a game or two, but wins of this nature will place you high up the threat list in every subsequent game with the deck. I personally avoid these win cons.

precociousapprentice : I'm a bit confused about Grim Monolith in the deck. Am I missing something here?

..I missed the word "Twice". These evens out the casting cost value, but I'm still unsure. The limitation of hitting our own spells is off putting. I think it's best with the 1CMC tutors - 5 CMC for 3 tutors is pretty good. There is quite a few spells in this deck that don't get any value from it - so about 18 valid targets? I would love to use it with a mana tithe though :P

Also.. the new Manifold Key works with this build. Enables Grenzo, Havoc Raiser and Tymna the Weaver for unblock-able attacks. Grim Monolith/Sol Ring. Fills the hole left by removing Rogues Passage / Key To The City / Suspicious Bookcase

Weef117, RobotCowhand: Personally I run Fury Storm . It doesn't have the "your" limitation and in almost all cases you've cast your cmdr once already so it copies twice. Have had some huge turnaround plays with this card and is a favorite of mine in this deck :) (also tutorable by sunforger)