Quest for the Turn 4 Leviathans

Modern robrone9

SCORE: 33 | 84 COMMENTS | 10183 VIEWS | IN 30 FOLDERS


Wiktul says... #1

I think you're making too many assumptions here.

1st: you will get to that land and you will get that many lands. I really doubt that. In this deck 2 lands in turn 3-4 is a luxury. You want to get 3 lands on the opening hand, Ula and Gargantuan? That won't happen and I think you know it. If you'll get that mana later, with Ula on the table, you'll only cry becasue... well, because it's goddamn useless mana instead of mobs you need for Ula. Fetching for mana after 1st turn = ruining all scry mechanism = starting Ula even later = loosing the game.

2nd: splashing is worth the risk and the effort. In my opinion - it's not. I'd understand if it would be for some win con, like Simic Sky Swallower, but for 5/6 guy with no real ability (at least not in synergy with other mobs)? What's more, you've putted it x4, what is even more difficult to understand. Especially after arguing about usability of Grozoth and - obviously wise - statement you've made, that this deck needs 4x all scry-mobs in the first place to do achieve its goal. In that case, you're now making it more inconsistent (less scry options, less tutoring for mobs you want to put into play and which are your win conditions). What is more - all of those spalshing costs (assuming you'll get to the lands you need in the first rounds) are conected with life payment. Life is not expendable here. We have to live until round 4 and defend however we can with cheap scry-mobs or we die. Pay 2 life for Breeding Pool in your opening hand to make it usable for Ula, even if you had the luck of getting Gargantuan with it? Seems insane to me. Paying 1 life for fetch, that will ruin everything you scryed out? Beside turn 1-2 fetch is useless here.

3rd: you will controll a creature to bounce it back on the top of the deck. Well, that's relatively the most possible of all those assumptions, due to the number of mobs in this deck. However, as I said before, all scryers (all = 1, 2 untill turn 3-4) will probably die during opponent's combat phase in order to maintain as much life as you can before Ula starts. And even IF all will be so beatufiull (good lands, Gargantuan, Ula, scry-mob in opening hand) all you can get of this is a nice trick with some synergy with Ula. In my opinion, Thrummingbird makes the same effect without so much risk, costs and dealing with "what if's".

The greatest power of this deck is perfect synergy with plan "A". And that means no plan "B". Plan "A" is fast, unexpectable and simple enough to be a challenge to all modern decks. You've said yourself, that Wrexial, the Risen Deep is too easily removed for you to risk "wasting" deck space for it. I understand that point of view, altrough for me his abilities are overwhelimng enough to make itself win-con worth taking that risk. Can you explain, how is this pararell to Gargantuan? Cheap, 5/6 mob, without trample, haste, landwalk, hexproof or shroud, with ability that demands from you something not so easy to fulfill, with mana cost that (despite being low) is making you reorganise whole mana base and the main synergies and strategies? Can it stand against Vapor Snag? Any removal? Anything like Cryptic Command? Will it block or get through merfolks or splinter twin? Can it survive burn? Can it even get through 0/1 token standing in it's way?

Please, don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to hate your idea or anything like that. The reason of this whole expiacion is my feeling, that your previous deck shape was strictly better and effective. I know it by myself, how desire to put as many "safety options" in the deck can ruin its main idea - don't get yourself into that ;)

March 24, 2015 3:11 p.m.

robrone9 says... #2

Yea bro, i hear you. I am going to test it out at casual night (wednesday) and if its promising ill take it to FNM. In about 10 playtests on tappedout I had no problems, but maybe that was luck. I think the Nulltread Gargantuan makes sense only as a plan B, meaning I won't keep a good hand for the Nulltread Gargantuan if it doesn't also have the Quest for Ula's Temple... the quest is still the goal and I will mulligan down to 3 to get one. But if during the course of a game I happen to have the quest destroyed, the Gargantuan makes for a nice plan B while I am digging through the deck turn by turn to get another quest.

March 24, 2015 3:25 p.m.

Cicjose says... #3

March 25, 2015 7:49 a.m.

robrone9 says... #4

Thanks for the suggestion Cicjose.

Wiktul and I go round and round about this card... He loves it and I am just so so about it. Personally, I prefer my leviathans to come with shroud or hexproof, but the card does have merit in the sideboard against aggro- especially goblins or possibly zoo second game after removal has been boarded out. I also like it versus tron, as the Wurmcoil Engine becomes useless.

March 25, 2015 8:06 a.m.

Wiktul says... #5

Now something I found by accident - if you wish to stick to mechanics of blinking scry-mobs to your own use, maybe Familiar's Ruse could find a place in your sideboard?

March 25, 2015 8:06 p.m.

Wiktul says... #6

And I wish Discombobulate was at least 1 cheaper... :(

March 25, 2015 8:09 p.m.

robrone9 says... #7

Trying out white splash for Meddling Mage. Plan is to board in against control and living end, out and replace with more Phyrexian Revoker against hate bears and more creature heavy decks. Stormtide Leviathan is now solidly in the board for red / aggro decks without Path to Exile which is why he isn't in the main.

April 4, 2015 11:46 a.m.

Tacoguy12321 says... #8

Why is Merfolk Assassin even in this sideboard, You need to build a sideboard more helpful and relevant for the modern meta,I recommend eliminating 2x Chancellor of the Annex adding Path to Exile and Vapor Snag to the main board eliminating 2x Relic of Progenitus maybe adding some Kor Firewalker for the Burn matchup and some Artifact hate, maybe a Leyline of Sanctity too, The Stormtide Leviathan seems pretty useless too. Maybe Adding some reactive spells[Which you currently have none of] like Remand, Spell Snare, and Spell Pierce in place of the unneccessary amount of creatures

April 4, 2015 1:29 p.m.

robrone9 says... #9

Tacoguy12321 thanks for the input.

First of all, I don't play any non-creature spells unless absolutely necessary -- drawing them only slows down the quest.

To that end, I can assure you I have a relevant sideboard for my meta. I run into merfolk every week where I live. The chancellor is better than a leyline as I only need turn 1 protection from discard and it triggers the quest. I would never play either of them by hard casting so the chancellor wins in this deck. I play 4 Spellskite to slow down burn, but there have been no burn decks in my local meta. Sideboards are meta dependent so you might do well with changing the deck in your area. Go ahead and play test the deck, I think you'll find it very consistently killing the opponent on turn 5-6, having plenty of chump blockers to slow down aggro, and some key cards to show down combo as well.

Thanks again for the comments!

April 4, 2015 2:27 p.m.

Tacoguy12321 says... #10

Kewl Then sorry about writing a little angry I was tired, any how that makes enough sense thanks for helping me understand kewl deck Idea

April 4, 2015 10:49 p.m.

robrone9 says... #11

No worries, it's a weird deck for sure. But it's fun and different and wind enough that I keep running it back with little changes to see if it can win FNM. Maybe the week the fish don't show up. Lol

April 5, 2015 3:45 p.m.

Wiktul says... #12

Next week there's gonna be Utrech Grand Prix Trial in my venue, so there's a problem I'm trying to solve - what are you doing in such situation:

Opening hand - no Ula, no Serum

Mulligan to 6 - 2 / 3 Serums, Ula with no land or all needed scry-mobs and Grozoth and the land with no Ula? Shall you exile your hand and draw another 6? When will you mulligan instead of exiling hand with Serum?

And going further that way:

4th mulligan / exile - no Ula, no (more) Serums, 2 lands, Augury Owl, Sage of Epityr x2. Shall we mulligan until 1 and even then 10x1 untill we can get Ula, or is there a point, let's say mulligan to 4, when we keep the hand and we should try to dig out Ula with the scry mobs?

Personally, I think digin for Ula at all cost is the only option. I can even surrender at first draw, chances of gettin' Ula with mobs after 4-5 failures of finding it earlier are close to 0. Especially when in modern game ends usually at turn 5-6. What are your opinions? :)

April 25, 2015 7:48 a.m.

robrone9 says... #13

I will mulligan 99% of the time to get a quest. Possible exceptions are having answers to certain decks such as Spellskite vs burn or twin and the lands to play it. I can keep certain hands without quest but I don't ever want to. Still, sometimes all that scry can pull you back. You planning to play the deck in a real tournament then? I do like the Meddling Mage back in the board until game 2.

April 25, 2015 9:22 a.m.

Wiktul says... #14

And how does it work for you? I see it can slow merfolks (Vial, Lord etc.) or burn (whatever), but in those decks there are simply to many cards equivalent for one another. Is that worth splashing?

April 26, 2015 3:05 p.m.

robrone9 says... #15

The splash is irrelevant game 1 most if the time. Game 2 and 3 it does great, as Meddling Mage will wreck twin decks, and amulet decks, or anything that needs a certain card to land... Or at the very least slow them down. With a resurgence of burn at my LGS and several twin and amulet players, my only real fear is discard based decks. Turn 1 Thoughtseize is still the hardest thing to come back from. In those cases I rarely have a shot, and thus use the Chancellor of the Annex to land the quest. Still, GB decks usually main board abrupt decay as well. Very very hard to beat them.

April 26, 2015 3:32 p.m.

Wiktul says... #16

That's what I'm actually trying to solve. But please, tell me, how can Chancellor of the Annex work for you against discard? Let's say you're starting the game, you've lost the roll. 1st round - discard Ula, you surrender. 2nd game, you sideboard Chancellor and? What then? You're trying to get Ula, island and chancellor in 1 hand? How is that possible, even with Serum Powder? I understand that if discard is popular in your venue, but I can't convince myself to spent 4 slots of sideboard only for that card to pray to the gods for putting all 3 cards without whitch I'm doomed in my opening hand :)

About Abrupt Decay - if Spellskite isn't enough, maybe you should consider using Redirect? It works great for all uncounterable spells. And how is Merfolk Assassin working for you? I'm looking for some resolution for merfolk problem, but any kind of removal or bounce (even for 1-2 mana) seems simply not enough against deck based on 12 Lords and about 30 fishes in all (eventualy in controll version, what is even more awful against our 2-3 lands at best).

April 27, 2015 2:41 p.m.

robrone9 says... #17

Oh I agree, its a long shot. Its just the best iv'e got so far. To be honest, sometimes I just rely on Meddling Mage and hope they don't draw turn one discard -- the chancellor is just so iffy... Sun Tzu and all that jazz -- don't worry about the matchup you know you will lose, just make sure you win those you can.

April 27, 2015 3:09 p.m.

Wiktul says... #18

How about 1x Kederekt Leviathan in sideboard as ultimate wipe out for all swarms and merfolks alike? :)

April 28, 2015 11:05 a.m.

robrone9 says... #19

Not really a good idea as removal is so cheap. Imagine you do this and they path your leviathan.

April 28, 2015 1 p.m.

Wiktul says... #20

Well, in monoU decks there is no, in fact, too many removal (or even control in 12-lords versions). I thought about it as late game drop, putted in opponent's end step, when he's totally confident of winning with all his fishes powerd up by one another. The reason why we're loosing to merfolks is that they kill 4-5th turn. We in 5th-6th turn. That mob gives us single strike we need for 6 or we made them sacrifice each single merfolk putted into play to stop him. Or maybe I'm just making too many assumptions now, as I usually do ;)

April 28, 2015 4:56 p.m.

robrone9 says... #21

Against merfolk... Yea. I like it! I'd still rather draw Merfolk Assassin tho.

April 28, 2015 6:13 p.m.

Wiktul says... #22

Ok ok, sorry, I didn't say anything :P

Btw - you don't have any Utrecht trials around? Or is it just that you're not into it?

April 28, 2015 7:23 p.m.

robrone9 says... #23

Nah.. Just not into it. But good luck to you bro.

April 28, 2015 7:27 p.m.

Wiktul says... #24

Tireless in my quest to torment you with new suggestions I present another one! :) Defense Grid seems to be perfect, especially for you as long as you never use or side any instants.

April 29, 2015 7:41 p.m.

robrone9 says... #25

Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is better if you want to go that route... Not a terrible idea, what with Judge's Familiar already in the deck. Don't quit working on the deck bro - I know it can work!

April 29, 2015 8:19 p.m.

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