I see you liked Tarnished Citadel eh?

yeah, i was thinking about it. with luck i can drop some stuff to get alot of the filter lands and duals and not need it though. 3 color such a punk to keep stable with fast mana, even with green.

I do have an extra Savannah if you're willing to trade a ton of cards for it

the temptation is real. i'll maybe take you up on that if i still have mana issues after getting all the filters and etc

This is a good stuff deck it seems. It does have amazing cards in it, but does not really work together. Is the general just for her colors? Rubinia Soulsinger is who I would suggest as a general for this deck.

You are also short on draw, and ramp. I would also try to add a couple more powerhouse creatures. You only have a couple, and with so few Tooth and Nail is a great card. Some other suggestions, Mind's Eye , Rhystic Study , Fertilid , Thran Dynamo , Misty Rainforest ect..., Thousand-Year Elixir , Minamo, School at Water's Edge , Maze of Ith , Birds of Paradise , Kodama's Reach , Cultivate

Let me know if these suggestions are ones you like. I just feel your general does not fit the deck. If you want to keep her around, there are things I could suggest for that as well.

the reason i run jenara is because she was the first mythic i ever cracked, she allows the deck to take on an aggro paradigm if needed, and she always gives the option of putting out a creature that can be used to voltron or block if needed. Rhystic Study is a card i've had mixed feelings about for a long while. the card itself is great in EDH, but i feel it is one of those cards that can bring unwanted attention to you in a multiplayer game. Kor Haven is the maze i am hoping to run eventually, until then mystifying is there as the cheap option. Minamo, School at Water's Edge is another good card that is there till i get one. i don't like Mind's Eye since it is a more expensive artifact and also requires you to tap mana, i might run Staff of Nin but i would need to figure out what to take out. Thran Dynamo is likely going to get added at a later point as well, currently i'm doing a massive rework on the decks mana base, and that is likely going to come in once i get a feel that the colored mana is good, possibly replacing chromatic lantern. i don't like Birds of Paradise in edh, just seems to die too easily. i was thinking about both Kodama's Reach and Cultivate and will probably add them once i get a feel for the new mana. the main thing is the deck is played more slowly and underrated if possible using spot removal to bluff that you are alot more control than you really are all whilst setting up for a sweep. it's a deck that relies on manipulation and diplomacy to work. also, i just hate Tooth and Nail on principle, though i do admit it is a very good card.

If you want to stick with your current general, you could do some amazing things to make her shine. It would involve the 3 Doubling Season cards, and creatures that produce tokens, and get counters. It would be a really strong deck creature wise. I suggested the different general because of the control look of the deck. I understand that you want to keep a low profile, but you will be found out sooner or later. Then you will either have to go toward the power of your general, or the control of your current deck. Playing those planeswalkers will make you an immediate target every time. (they are even better with the doubling season stuff). Play them once, and everyone will know. I do not think that you can play coy with this deck. It is far too powerful.

If you like the current maze, and are shooting for the Kor Haven why not run all 3. Gives you a better chance of getting at least one of them in a game.

You have mainly an assortment of ETB creatures. Mistmeadow Witch , Prophet of Kruphix --best card possible for this deck, Deadeye Navigator are good options. I have a Roon deck that I really need to post. It abuses ETB pretty bad, and deadeye, and mistmeadow are the 2 best blinkers.

you have some good ideas on the blink mechanic, and i thought about it but i simply don't run enough ENTBs to justify it was the conclusion i came to. kor haven will likely be the only maze, though i might add maze of ith at a later point, simply because i find Mystifying Maze too expensive to activate and Maze of Ith doesn't tap for mana, though once i get more ramp that won't matter as much. the usage of the doubling season cards is another direction i thought about going, but the +1/+1 counter generation on jenara is more something i do EoT with untapped mana than a core element the deck focuses on. the main thing i run her for is that she is a cheap 3/3 flier that i can sink mana into when i want to. you make a point about the deck being too scary too stealth easily, but unless you were to see it play i couldn't really explain how everything fits together easily.

It seems so disorganized and decentralized because it has 4 main themes that all complement each-other. it runs spot control to interfere with enemy synergies and allow me to form alliances and deter people attacking me with vague threats towards their permanents. It runs equipment to be unassuming until i start going for the kill. the ENTB creatures are mostly there so i can get the effect and then equip them, and for the occasional usage with venser, though i might start adding more of an ENTB mechanic to the deck. and the planeswalkers are there because in the cold war situations most of the games i play turn into, they can either put the table on a clock or allow me to do some serious shenanigans repeatedly. ideally you protect the planeswalkers by bluffing as to being able to destroy what they attack them with or having the tables balance in such a way that attacking is against their interests. you play some minor creatures here or there whilst ramping and then ultimately you go BAM and play a major win con, voltron it, and then start tanking the table with the control you have left to destabilize their counter strategies. the deck is meant to be as adaptive as possible and always have a solution to the current problem somewhere.

I can see that you have quite alot going on. It is all solid stuff too. I was just thinking if you took one of those directions you would have a more solid theme. If you are constantly playing with new people, then this is not necessary. If you play with the same people, and you are able to do this all the time, I think you either play with easily manipulated people, or you need to get in to some high dollar sales.

You have to make a spot for Prophet of Kruphix though. With limited creatures, he essentially gives them vigilance. With a mana sink for a general, it is perfect. With how many answers you have in spells, you need the mana open on every turn. And with creatures that big, you want to sink that mana in at the last moment so that you are open during your turn. Not many things can be as funny as a surprise hardcast Eldrazi. Do you own a Kozilek? He is great, and should be in here if you do. The card draw is amazing.

yeah, on Prophet of Kruphix my initial reaction was that it was a Yeva, Nature's Herald with a cool bonus effect, but that i didn't run nearly enough creatures. i seem to have forgotten to add it to the maybeboard because when you mentioned it again i somehow had the epiphany of, "holy crap this is like the feast proc on sword except even more amazing." it will definitely go in, i just need to figure out what to take out.

As for Kozilek, Butcher of Truth , i have had many long and interesting discussions with friends and whatnot on him vs Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre . more or less my conclusion is that i only plan on running a single titan, and that in the situations i hardcast one, it is usually a stalemate topdecking fest and the uncounterable destroy target permanent effect combined with indestructibility makes him more useful all around. plus he makes it unlikely that it will wind up in my graveyard unless I'm getting milled, thus preventing the chance of my recursion getting nullified.

On being able to manipulate my playgroup, we get cycles of new people sometimes, but we are all a pretty manipulative bunch and they know i run ENOUGH control that i can definitely ruin the game for one person if they target me and prevent my bluffs from being called. if you have never played with a group like that i highly encourage trying to find one sometime, it is a much subtler game of magic than most you will see, and definitely feels like a war between elder dragons.

yeah, Prophet of Kruphix is now mainboard but i need to figure out what to remove for it. Also, if you have any ideas for stuff i can cut from the deck, i would happily listen so i can add some of the cards in my maybe board such as Rhystic Study , Eladamri's Call , and Glen Elendra Archmage

I have 2 playgroups. One of them, we have been playing the game together since 1995 or so. The other is fairly new. In my newer group I can politic just fine, and do it well. In my old group, if someone tries to politic, they regret it. We have just known each other far too long.

After you add the ramp, you may change your mind. Ramping big, and being able to cast an Eldrazi then something else, is nice. You will not regret running them both if you ramp enough. I personally like Kozilek better then Ulamog. There are more then enough exile spells around. Chances are they are both going to be taken care of before the attack. Kill one thing or draw 4 cards. Either one is a great thing, but in multi player EDH I have found draw 4 cards does far more. They are both good, but I prefer Kozilek. Well I prefer both to picking, but if I had to pick.

As far as what to remove. Venser is a little out of place. You do have some ETB guys, but he could go.

Praetor's Counsel just is not good enough. Which is really sad, I like that card. I have tried to fit it in to both of my EDH decks with green, but if I have that mana I have always had something better to do with it. Granted my Omnastic deck's main threats do not reside in the graveyard ever, and my Roon hardly ever gets a graveyard. I am just underwhelmed by that card.

Great card, but unless you play against land destruction, Crucible of Worlds is not really for this deck. It is great if you do face up against land destruction though. Kinda assuming you do since it is in here.

Scry lands. I don't really like them. They are marginally better then guildgates. I like the city of brass, and its new equivalent.

Detention Sphere is ok, but could go if you need to cut.

Deadeye + mystic snake, or Glen is reusable counter.

I would prefer Rhystic Study to Fact or Fiction

Time Stop is nice and all, but is it worth it in there? I could see how it would be, but might be a dead card in hand more often then not. Though it is one way to counter the uncounterable, how often does that come up? Desertion is a counter I really like.

Crucible of Worlds is probably going to get taken out. i ran it against land destruction for a while and then was running it for utility to be able to strip mine away lands and infinitely tutor basics, but with the removal of Sylvan Scrying , Reap and Sow , and Expedition Map in favor of faster ramp, i am likely going to take it out.

Praetor's Counsel is kinda like ulamog in this deck, when you draw into it late game it is absolutely devastating, and is best used as a "big play" towards the end. with the amount of sorcery/instant based removal i run, i can tell you that it has regularly won me games. but it definately takes a more spell oriented deck to get the use out of it, and that is somewhat rare in EDH, especially for a WG deck.

i like the scry lands alot cause my games tend to be much slower, and like i said, i'm usually trying to kinda play stealthy at that point, so deck control without something like Sylvan Library or Sensei's Divining Top which instantly alerts people to the monetary value of the deck is nice.

Venser, the Sojourner is actually used regularly for his rarely seen -1, and resetting permanents as well as his great interaction with ENTB effects. I like him because he kinda suits the duality of the deck, either allowing me to reset walkers and proc ENTBs, or go voltron aggro unblockable beat your face. it happens enough that he is very good for him to be a keeper, but there is no doubt other decks abuse him way more.

the other card i was thinking of dropping was Mimic Vat , but all too often i grab something game changing with it, or make people burn destruction that would otherwise hit my equipment. you can kinda see the issue, the deck has been revised and tweaked so much that everything kinda has its well defined niche XD.

i run time stop half because it is really useful, half because i just love the card. i've been seeking a foil tenth edition time stop since i started edh, and in case you didn't know tenth edition foils have no rules or flavor text, so it simply says "end the turn" at the bottom of the card. Desertion is great but i feel i would add Gather Specimens , Acquire or Bribery first and then run it.

you make a very good point on Rhystic Study or Fact or Fiction , but i think the EoT casting of FoF just makes it more useful for my uses, since i often just need more cards, and it is one of those things that can be a huge diplomacy game at the table, as well as give immense amounts of information as to what your opponent is thinking/their skill at the game. you'd be amazed at what you can learn about a person from how they sort those piles and their reaction to seeing those 5 cards.

Getting rid of crucible eh? Good. Now I hate your deck just a little less...

i hope you hate it for the cheese that people pull with crucible and not because you run land destruction. Also, i want to just go on record and say the only times i have Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine 'ed someone was either vs a fully foiled out Zur the Enchanter and when a Kaalia of the Vast player dared me too.

Honestly you're the only one in our playgroup that I've seen run it...but even so, that card should be banned in EDH with the abuse you can pull using fetch lands, landfall, etc. Almost as bad as Primeval Titan . Almost.

freezerboy I didn't know you guys were buddies. I checked to see if he tried to make an offer on the dual, and he had not. My bad.

I also forgot to plus one before. There is alot of power here. +1

Didgeridooda, yeah he didn't take me up on the dual yet, and honestly I don't think he's got enough trade to make it worth my while. At least not yet anyway. This deck is basically his go-to for any matchup, and most of the time it does well, though in multi-player games it usually ends up with this deck versus my The Evil Dead II.

okay streamlined a lot of the ramp and made some more changes. trying to figure out a good balance between green and artifact ramp. i think i like green more cause it also doubles as deck thinning and is harder to destroy, but artifact definitely has its uses. if anyone has any input on the stuff I'm switching in and out I'd be happy to listen, you have both shown a lot of insight in this.

I'd probably use a Sylvan Scrying rather than Cultivate . I know you're looking to get the most out of your ramp, but there's always going to be a time when you want to pull out a specific land, and there are few things in the deck that do it now.

you make a good point with sylvan, but if i would run that I'd run Reap and Sow instead for both the added utility and that i get instant gain. it's a good point though that I will possibly go with.