Red Scare: Zada EDH [PRIMER]

Commander / EDH* Daedalus19876

SCORE: 324 | 277 COMMENTS | 57653 VIEWS | IN 113 FOLDERS


-Cellodude- says... #1

Maybe you could play Rush of Blood for double the powaah and neat deck. +1 from me.

June 13, 2016 11:40 p.m.

BabyDoc says... #2

Battle Hymn or Brightstone Ritual lets you cast Seething Anger repeatedly with buyback.

I would include Marton Stromgald. He singlehandedly lowers the threshold of creatures needed for an alpha strike in an inverse-exponential way. He also turns chump blockers into HUGE blockers.

As for Fiery Gambit- just want to make sure everyone realizes that unless you win the first flip and cash it in, this spell never targets anything, so Zada never makes any copies of it. And that when it targets Zada, it does 3 damage- so unless Zada is buffed or indestructible, you kill your own commander. Granted, it could be worth it!

June 15, 2016 4:36 p.m.

mentor6 says... #3

BabyDoc, that's incorrect. Fiery Gambit must have a legal target when cast. Thus triggering zada before it resolves

June 15, 2016 5:40 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #4

BabyDoc: As mentor6 has already pointed out, targets are declared as the spell is put onto the stack - ie, before it resolves - so Zada is indeed able to copy it. I always shoot for the highest level of the spell, so occasionally Zada does die, but I'll make that trade for 9 cards and untapping all of my lands :)

This deck doesn't actually represent my fully-optimized version (which I will fix shortly). Battle Hymn and Brightstone Ritual are both in there, and are some of the most powerful cards in the deck - though I took out Seething Anger.

June 15, 2016 5:56 p.m.

BabyDoc says... #5

I was deceived! You're right. (But you already knew that.)

Fiery Gambit goes back in my deck!

June 15, 2016 6:44 p.m.

BabyDoc says... #6

Any thoughts on Goblin Diplomats to make an opponent's commander or other control-based creature attack? I just added it but haven't played the deck with it yet.

Also how about Dragonmaster Outcast?

June 15, 2016 6:59 p.m.

mentor6 says... #7

Dragon master is a beast. Haven't tried the diplomat

June 15, 2016 8:08 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #8

BabyDoc and mentor6: I've now updated the deck to match its composition IRL, and it runs amazingly! I smashed everyone at my LGS 4 games in a row. I need to get a Treasonous Ogre, but I think that otherwise it's complete.

I've never liked Dragonmaster Outcast too much; he's pretty slow in a deck with no ramp. Goblin Diplomats aren't bad because they can force small, squishy creatures to attack (and they play well with Kazuul!) but I'd need to find a space first, and spaces are tight...

June 15, 2016 8:32 p.m.

Triton says... #9

Ave you considered. Titan's Strength to give your tokens a boost? It costs less mana than Brute Strength, while also controlling your draws. Also Temur Battle Rage seems like a solid choice for this deck.

The deck looks great overall. :)

June 16, 2016 2:08 a.m.

PookandPie says... #10

Seconding Titan's Strength because pump and being able to scry 1 per creature you control is pretty great in mono red.

Also, why are you running From the Ashes (I could be missing something)? Giving people the ability to get basics back after destroying their nonbasics sounds a lot worse than just running Ruination, considering you're a mono red deck with very few nonbasic lands. Unless your opponents constantly run 5 color decks with 10 dual/10 shock/10 fetch and, like, no basics, I don't see how this card is better than just casting a Ruination.

I like Overblaze in this deck by a lot. Gaining a random 8 damage per token because you had it and literally any other buff spell sounds amazing, and it's not like you're above living the dream since you've got Inner Fire in mono red EDH, lol. Now that I'm thinking about it, actually, Soul's Fire would be perfect, even more so than Overblaze, because a single pump spell can let you kill a single player (and even without pump spells, 3 mana to deal 10+ to any creature or player in almost any combination sounds pretty damn good to me). I also like Fall of the Hammer, but not as much as Soul's Fire. I would say definitely replace Fiery Gambit with Soul's Fire.

June 17, 2016 1:40 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #11

PookandPie: Unfortunately, Soul's Fire and Fall of the Hammer don't work with Zada because they target something other than her (otherwise I'd use them in a heartbeat). Also, Fiery Gambit is amazing because of the "draw 9 and untap" clause - that's why I play it, not for the 6 damage to opponents.

I play From the Ashes over Ruination because I'm heavily opposed to MLD on principle, but FtA shuts down shenanigans while not denying mana. I agree that Ruination is usually a strictly superior card :)

Actually, Titan's Strength has been in various versions of the deck and is just...underwhelming. I can get better power boosts from Downhill Charge and Screaming Fury, and scrying 1 a bunch of times is less helpful than you'd think when most of my other cantrips would just let me draw all of the cards in question. Plus, "scry 1 15 times" is often "scry to the third card down, then keep that one": not as helpful as a true "Scry 15".

June 17, 2016 2:07 a.m.

PookandPie says... #12

Good point on Fall of the Hammerm, et al (I, for some reason, thought Zada was just Ink-Treader Nephilim on a legendary creature. That's what I get for not actually reading the Commander and attempting to recall from memory).

As far as Fiery Gambit goes, your odds of winning two coin flips for 6 damage are 1 in 4, meaning that for 3 mana, this adds an average of 1.5 damage per creature per opponent (and kills a quarter of your board, roughly). That same 3 mana could be Assault Strobe + Rouse the Mob + Brute Force. That's why I'm not a fan.

Maybe drop Inner Fire for Gauntlet of Power? I just playtested the deck (after feeling kind of bad for not even looking at your Commander) and Inner Fire is pure win-more and does very little to help you get off the ground if you're having a bad game. In order for it to be amazing, you need your land loaded up with cards, most typically off of a cantrip, which means you control Zada + a number of creatures + a cantrip + this card- that's actually quite a bit of, "I'm already well on my way to winning" before that card is substantially useful. Whereas Gauntlet, despite being one mana more, doesn't have quite the high point as Inner Fire, but doubles the attack of your 1/1 tokens and doubles the mana from your Mountains even when you have trouble sticking Zada. Though, if you don't have issues sticking your Commander (I play in a pretty high removal meta game- 10+ cards for removing creatures, artifacts, and enchantments is pretty common here). Gauntlet of Might is a better option over Gauntlet of Power if your group allows you to use proxies.

Maybe also swap your Mountains to Snow covered mountains since you have Extraplanar Lens, and this would keep your from sharing your acceleration since it goes by exact name (especially helpful if you add Gauntlet since you wouldn't want to accelerate everyone that much lol).

Treasonous Ogre can be worth a consideration over Vessel of Volatility. It only adds net gain of 2 across two turns, but Ogre can provide mana and be useful the turn he drops, which can be extremely useful if you need to combo that turn.

Last: Shared Animosity. You seem to be sticking to goblins more than most other Zada decks, and this would give you regular methods of gaining beyond +2/+0 buffs and let you do so more than once a turn.

There. Hope this makes up for the last one!

June 17, 2016 4 a.m.

chubba says... #13

this looks fun. FAST but fun. +1 from me.

June 17, 2016 9:48 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #14

PookandPie: Nothing to make up for! I appreciate your comments :)

Actually, Ink-Treader has that "only target" clause as well. Which is really irritating, agreed.

I agree that Fiery Gambit is subpar for a damage spell. However, that's not why I'm playing it. I always keep flipping until I lose or I win three in a row. Thus it's a 1/8 chance to get the highest level, so I get an average of 1.125 cards per creature, and untap about .875 lands per creature. The damage to the opponents and to my creatures is incidental.

Inner Fire has proven important in several games recently because it fits into a vital place in my pseudo-curve: after casting a draw spell, I need enough mana to continue chaining them, and it's been perfect for actually letting me do so.

Regarding Gauntlet of Might, I have considered playing it and its cousin Caged Sun, but they've always gotten removed before I can get much value from them. They tend to take up all of T5 or T6, when I'd prefer to make more tokens or combo off.

I agree that Snow covered mountains would indeed be superior, but...I'm too lazy to get my hands on them, and I like the art on my mountains XD Plus, red isn't THAT common in my meta. I'll consider this if I start having trouble.

Treasonous Ogre is a wonderful idea, and it's actually in my TCGPlayer cart right now! :)

And finally, Shared Animosity used to be on my maybeboard, but without any kind of evasion or trample, the extra power seems to have been wasted.

June 17, 2016 2:05 p.m.

Triton says... #15

Looks great as-is, but here are some cards to consider:

  • Impact Tremors or Warstorm Surge and the like, for burn/removal

  • Also a boardwipe- maybe Inferno, but it seems to harm your strategy more than help

  • Also Pyromancer's Goggles but I think Zada may do the same thing. Never hurts to have "copies" of the card, from my personal experience.

Those are the suggestions I could provide for you consider, but as said before, this deck looks really solid and well-thought out.

June 26, 2016 5:35 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #16

Triton: Impact Tremors is a good idea, and I'll try to find a space for it (probably in place of From the Ashes). Warstorm Surge is way too expensive (in terms of mana) for its effect, especially in this deck full of tiny creatures. If I were to play a board wipe, I'd play Blasphemous Act, but I feel it does more harm than good here. Mogg Infestation is as close to a board wipe as I have here, since it can also have positive effects for me. And finally, Pyromancer's Goggles would mostly be helpful to double my mana rituals (since the copies aren't "cast", it doesn't interact with Zada like I'd want it to).

Thanks for your comment! :) You're welcome to check out the other incarnation of this deck as well, if you're interested: $25 Extreme Budget Zada EDH

June 27, 2016 10:16 a.m.

Thanks much for your suggestions and for posting your deck for me to look at, appreciate it much. +1 Upvote for your deck too. Nice build.

d&g85

June 27, 2016 2:41 p.m.

Hey man, I loved this deck so much that I tried to create a Red White version of it. It's an Anax and Cymede deck with more emphasis on enchantments. I'm having troubles with it though. Do you mind looking at it for me. +1 by the way. -Alex

July 1, 2016 6:59 a.m.

BabyDoc says... #19

It may already have occurred to everyone, but you when Fiery Gambit targets Zada, you can assure Zada's safety by continuing to flip until you lose. If you haven't won three flips on any of the copies, then maybe it would be worth letting Zada die. But if you're loaded with cards and all your lands are untapped when the original spell resolves targeting Zada, just keep flipping!

July 4, 2016 12:58 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #20

BabyDoc: I've figured this out in my games, but I don't think I ever mentioned it in the comments. Thanks for pointing it out! :) When I was playing Brute Force, I've also resolved one responding to my own Zada-copying trigger so none of my creatures died, haha.

dragonsandgoblins85: Thanks for your comment, too! :)

alexander.rokicki: Sure, I'll take a look! I used to have an Anax and Cymede deck a while ago (my second commander deck ever), so I can probably help make some suggestions :) I'm glad that you like the deck!

July 4, 2016 1:14 p.m.

ohmless says... #21

like the descent of the dragons combo with empty the warrens. maybe a little storm to get some synergy with this and Zada by including Haze of Rage? its a stinker, but Stormwing Dragon when flipped gives your dragon tokens +1/+1. Not many options for tutoring so the gamble is a good include. Retreat to Valakut would be a repeatable +2/+0 to aim at zada. Sure Strike would give them all +3/+0 and first strike. Titan's Strength is an option. Brute Strength is like a little overrun. cool deck. +1'ed

July 4, 2016 10:40 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #22

ohmless: Unfortunately, Retreat to Valakut doesn't trigger Zada (not an instant/sorcery). I've definitely considered Haze of Rage, and it's a good finisher. I'll take another look at it :) SWD is too expensive, alas, and those three power boosters have been in various iterations of this deck but they're currently out (Downhill Charge works well in that slot, because I can cast it for "free").

Thanks for your comment and +1! :)

July 5, 2016 1:25 a.m.

Klancik says... #23

Dualcaster Mage? Also note that it would also combo off of Heat Shimmer to a crazy effect

July 5, 2016 2:47 p.m.

IgnisMachina says... #24

You might also be able to use the combo in your budget version, and remember Twinflame can substitute Heat Shimmer

July 5, 2016 4:36 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #25

Klancik, IgnisMachina: I really wish that Dualcaster Mage combo'd with Zada's ability, but you might be right that he could fit anyway.

Also, have you guys seen the new dragon spoiled from Eldritch Moon? :D It's a better version of Zada, and it's going in here as soon as I can find a slot (along with the Writhing Township pieces).

July 5, 2016 5:26 p.m.

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