Yes he can hit the ground on turn 1, but he can't use his ability until turn 3. I agree he has his uses and very well may be the necessary element for the late game. I just don't know. I like being able to kill my opponent by turn 4. I would probably prefer devil's play or a simple fireball for the late game.

I always love coming home from stupid shifts at the DG to find awesome debates on my decks :D

So, it seems like we have a few cards to consider here, and which ones/how many to run.

• Spikeshot Elder
• Goblin Wardriver
• Goblin Arsonist
• And to a lesser extent (just because it is an interesting proposal) Slag Fiend !!!

To start off with the main 3 contenders, I'll list pros and cons, and what synergies they have within the deck.

• 1 drop
• Combos extremely well with boosts from the Goblin lord, battlecry (which merits the inclusion of the Wardriver), and from Curse of Stalked Prey
• Provides extra reach late game
• Kills chump blockers easily
• Great topdeck late game

Cons:

• Ability can't be activated until turn 3 in normal situations. Can be accelerated via Mox Opal and Infernal Plunge , however.
• Relatively weak on his own, but stronger than the others
• Not the best in multiples on the field

• Has battlecry, which rules
• Has the body of a bear, which has never hurt
• Great in multiples.
• Combos extremely well with Spikeshot Elder

Cons:

• Also weak on his own
• Usually bad topdeck late game

• 1 drop
• Synergizes well with all of the sac effects
• Has the potential to be at least a 2-for-1 with no extra work
• Great blocker

Cons:

• Generally bad topdeck late game
• Very weak on his own

Now that I have listed the pros and cons (IMO, at least) of the cards above, I think we can see each card's strengths and weaknesses a bit more clearly. I am definitely willing to debate with you guys about these cards, so let me start off by saying I think Spikeshot Elder and Goblin Wardriver are the two that make the cut.

Reasons: They combo very well together. Both are much better on their own than the Arsonist. Both can provide huge tempo swings, whether it be in the form of more damage or board control. Rebuttals?

No rebuttal, but perhaps an idea of how to squeeze in some Goblin Wardriver 's. I have since rethought Chancellor of the Forge and decided he is rather great in this setting. But maybe you could still come down 1 on him? Drawing into multiples late game will really slow you down. Then take out a curse, since wardriver essentially does the same thing by rckclimber777's "win by turn 4" logic. And lastly, since wardriver has battlecry anyway, you could get away with 3x Signal Pest . So overall, my suggestion is this:

-1 Curse of Stalked Prey

-1 Chancellor of the Forge

-1 Signal Pest

What do you think?

I think that sounds perfectly acceptable. My only concern is that I'm slowly lessening the number of artifacts with these changes. I believe I'm already down 2 from the original number, but I think I should still have enough. As long as I don't go any lower, it should be fine.

The changes are made!

Awesome! I was thinking that between Memnite and Shrine of Burning Rage , you should always have enough artifacts for Mox Opal .

Well, I meant for sacrificing to Kuldotha Rebirth early on, mainly. But metalcraft is a good thing with Mox Opal as well, haha. Thanks for the input! It is greatly appreciated.

I think the Shrine of Burning Rage is way too mana intensive and isn't a good card to play with Kuldotha Rebirth . If you only have a shrine in your hand it delays your kuldotha's swing until turn 4. I'm in favor of Panic Spellbomb to negate their early creatures, provide draw, or sac to the rebirth as a 1-drop. Could make a really big difference with Curse of Stalked Prey . With Spikeshot Elder as your backup, I don't think you need another.

I also like Hero of Oxid Ridge better than the elder (as others have mentioned]] because he can hit the board turn 2 and he really shuts down early threats. Him with Panic Spellbomb basically makes you unblockable until turn 6 imo. The other advantage is that the eldar is much more dependant on other cards to really shine and do more than just 1 damage. The hero can change the game on his own.

Oh yea, and Instigator Gang  ^{Flip  Flip} is just an idea . . .

I think Koth could be your late game powerhouse of choice here. I would think +2 Koth, and -2 Shrines would be good. I think Koth would end up putting tons of pressure on, and get the job done quicker than the shrines. The shrines just seem too slow. And even though you need as much artifacts as possible for the Rebirth, I don't think you should be worried about losing 2 Shrines. I don't think you want to be sacrificing them for it anyways. That's just my input. It's an awesome deck overall. +1

I like that someone other than myself sees some merit in the Chancellors. Yeah they can be gimmick-y, but the Chancellor of the Forge can be down right ridiculous. not that there will be many creatures on the field turn 4, but he is playable turn 4. Not to mention.

If you have him in your opening as: two mountain, an Infernal Plunge , a Geosurge , Chancellor of the Forge , plus any other two spells, you have a 5/5 turn 2 who can swing turn 3.

If you wait until later in the game, but still get him out he can be HUGE in mono red, or in R/G, all you need is one red mana to "light the fuse" lol.

If I were to try this deck, which I think i might after seeing this list, I would play Geosurge 's and a Myr Battlesphere or two simply because the extra artifact creatures that come out into play with it give you fodder for both the Kuldotha Rebirth 's and the Infernal Plunge 's.

Food for thought to get 30 some-odd attackers with battlecry haha

+1

commens on Ichor Wellspring

Wow. I like it. Might I suggest Brimstone Volley ? If you have to sac for Infernal Plunge , then it'd be nice to hit for five on turn one.

Never thought of the chancellor like this but it is nasty. Might have to think of those in a golblin deck that my friend has. However how often do that get used on the field. None the less a plus 1 fom me. Check out on of my deck if you get the chance.

Chancellor of the Forge gives you a goblin but if you don't have it on your opening hand he's almost impossible to play... What about replacing him for Brimstone Volley ? It can play really well along with Infernal Plunge ! Maybe get a couple of them and another curse?

Heyo so I mentioned my thoughts on Shrine of Burning Rage , Spikeshot Elder . I'd like to also throw my vote in against Chancellor of the Forge as well because if the game isn't over turn 5 or 6, I think you're doing something wrong. It's pretty much an all in deck. Even with a Geosurge (mentioned above) its takes way too many cards to combo something that really isn't that great . . .

I took a stab at it a while back and I've been using this forum for edits, love for anyone to take a look: You Gave Me Pink Eye (R Aggro)

i like what is see =) i always love playing with mono-red decks, their fast and they hurt...alot. +1 :):):)

Very well constructed argument for the changes. I concede on my point and agree that you have made changes for the better. Very nice. Also as I mentioned on your Slag Fiend deck it looks really good, I may have to take my own advice and start Tinker ing with it a bit to see what it can do.

I love this deck! It looks really good and I wanna try it (: I'd try for Koth in there.

Check out mine? :D R/G/B Vamps

I love this! As soon as I first saw Curse of Stalked Prey , I thought, hmm...this is almost an UPGRADE over Goblin Bushwhacker . I started making a Kuldotha Red 'Rebirth' deck the other day but scrapped it as I was sleepy...

One thing I would definitely think about is adding 4x Blackcleave Cliffs and 2x Stensia Bloodhall .

This would give it some reach after a board wipe.

+1

I'm completely enamored with this deck. I'm running something similar right now (deck:goblindiana-jones), which is a bit more about amassing a Goblin army for humongous attack with low drops, but I really like the overwhelming power of this deck. I'm gonna goof around with it. I don't have the funds for Mox Opals at the moment, so, can you suggest a viable replacement?

This deck is most definitely a +1 in my book. Such a great idea. My test hands are just insane.

Sick. Seems quite refined and can outrace quite a bit of decks. This to me seems almost equivalent to Tempered Steel level of quick damage (if everything goes right). Would be insane to see both decks against each other XD. +1 from me easily. Ah yes, check out my deck and tell me what you think. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/heartless-glissa-6/.

oh btw, how do you feel about Contested War Zone in this deck? just a thought

aslaveobeys - Yeah, it tends to have pretty good starting hands. Of course on mtgo, where I'm testing it, it just gives me like 6 land hands all the time. Also, I think I've seen Memnite maybe 10% of the games I've played on there so far. Those odds are right, right? Anyway, I need to sleeve it up IRL and see how it does. A replacement for Mox Opal ....since I didn't feel like shelling out 20 bucks online for it, I just replaced them with the 21st land and the 4th Signal Pest . Darksteel Axe or other cheap equipment can be good replacements as well, since they help you do what you need to do anyway, hammer away at their life. Plus equipment combo VERY favorably with my favorite goblin, Spikeshot Elder .

GunG12aVe - Thanks man! IT would be an interesting matchup, but I feel that if they get a Tempered Steel out quickly enough that it will be hard for me to recover in time, plus their guys get a huge permanent boost before attacking, whereas mine have to actually deal damage to get stronger. Contested War Zone is a card I hadn't really thought of. It could theoretically make for some nasty turn 2s. I could more consistently swing for 4 on turn 2 with that, Signal Pest and Memnite or something similar, but I never liked the control-swapping part of, which really sucks when you are short on land. That is something I'll need to test out, thanks for the suggestion!

Also, to everyone who requested a view of their deck by me: I will check out the decks either tomorrow afternoon or night, so thanks for being patient! And thank you all for voting and commenting on this deck!

Well, if they got tempered steel out quickly it would definitely be a race. The land swapping part of Contested War Zone is gimmicky, but if you are swinging with a few small goblins, would increase their clock a bit. Plus they would have to attack you in order to get it from you, attacker= non-blocker. just depends on how it actually works. Also, if you were looking for some cheap equipment Piston Sledge could work, since it auto equips (Darksteel Axe to equip needs 3 mana to equip it and so does the sledge)... unless u trying for cheap cmc so u can sac it to the kuldotha rebirth early.

Since we are trying cheap equipments, I might have mentioned this before, but Infiltration Lens is amazing and it can equip your key creature and detur your opponent from block killing it.