Lostsorrow says... #2
personally I run 2x Nevermore in my sideboard and find it to be very useful against just about everything. It stops Sphinx's Revelation , Lingering Souls , plainswalkers, and all the other annoying things you come across in game 1. Most people don't run enchantment destruction in my meta. Angel of Serenity is just awesome sauce and with this deck layout will most likely lead to scoops on your opponents end.
July 9, 2013 3:12 p.m.
What would you recommend taking out for Angel of Serenity ? I feel she would raise my mana curve too much, as I don't usually want to get to 7 mana, I'd rather win the game by drawing creatures and spells before drawing that seventh land.
July 9, 2013 4:30 p.m.
I'm really interested in this discussion, I just got a play set of Voice of Resurgence and am looking to make the best deck to utilize it. My first shot at putting a Selesnya deck: Come hear my voice has a lot of similarities to this one.
I don't know about Angel of Serenity in this deck. Is it awesome? Yes. But this deck fits more into the aggro-midrange then as a solid midrange. With that said, at 24 land and 4 pilgrims, you can definitely run Angel of Serenity . If you want to go Angel of Serenity then you really want to play for the midrange and not for aggro. In this case I would swap Unflinching Courage over Rancor . The toughness boost will help keep your guys alive and the lifegain helps both to stabilize and to pull ahead if you're in a race.
Oblivion Ring might be nice in the sideboard. It's a great all around utility card that can deal with a number of problems. It like Nevermore can be really useful. Fiend Hunter can also help if you stay aggro based to keep your attack lanes open. Of course all 3 can fall victim to Abrupt Decay ...
July 9, 2013 4:57 p.m.
I could possibly sideboard Angel of Serenity against Jund and other creature based midranges. I wouldn't want her mainboard, like you said; this is sort of aggro-midrange.
I wouldn't want Fiend Hunter , as he's more vulnerable and hwrder to cast than Oblivion Ring . His 1 power is also not impressive, I wouldn't really want to attack with him.
July 9, 2013 6:13 p.m.
Not worth it, I'd rather be safe in my removal than boost the power by one. Board position is a lot more important than +1/+1; a Searing Spear combat trick gives the opponent his creature back and blocks/kills the token anyways. Putrefy also hits it, in fact, the only thing I actually have to worry about is Abrupt Decay , which hits either of those options. In my eyes, Oblivion Ring is superior in all respects for this deck, and for most decks except for human aggro/naya blitz
July 9, 2013 8:30 p.m.
Lostsorrow says... #8
with that said Nevermore is Oblivion Ring + that much more because it handles all non-land cards. You could actually pull out 1 Restoration Angel for a Angel of Serenity safely. The problem is Pillar of Flame totally bones Voice of Resurgence which is just about every aggro deck. You have the early - mid game covered but it seems like if you hit turn 5 the deck runs out of gas. The irony of this deck is it is basically borderline reanimator if you swapped about 8 cards not counting lands. You definitely need Intangible Virtue in here though. I would drop 1x Rancor and 1x Selesnya Charm to squeeze 2 in.
July 10, 2013 12:24 p.m.
Nevermore is not Oblivion Ring , as it does nothing to permanents that have already been cast.
It's funny, I have yet to get a Voice of Resurgence hit with a Pillar of Flame , even though I've played against several decks that run it. I usually play around it or draw it out with another creature. Also, not only is it rotating out, but it doesn't affect my game nearly as much as it may seem.
I have plenty of gas after turn 5; my creatures are very threatening, which allows me to hold back and not overextend while keeping a strong board position. The only times I completely run out of gas and am waiting on topdecks are when the opponent is also in the same situation; this is because 8 creatures in the deck (Voice of Resurgence and Thragtusk ) are built-in 2-for-1's, 8 cards (Restoration Angel and Selesnya Charm ) can serve as spot removal denial, 8 cards (Restoration Angel , Advent of the Wurm , Garruk, Primal Hunter ) can serve as sweeper counters (not counting Rootborn Defenses in the sideboard), and plenty of cards help me maintain a threatening board position without overextending (Gavony Township , Rancor , Garruk, Primal Hunter , combat tricks with Resto/Advent/Charm, Wolfir Silverheart ). I can also refill my hand with Garruk if I have him.
The only matchup where I've seen myself lose gas at the mid-late game is against Jund, and that was before I had Voice of Resurgence in the deck. I'll see what happens when I play Jund with this finished version, but I don't see myself losing easily. This deck has proven over and over again to be extremely tough to beat as long as the pilot (me) knows how to mulligan and how to play around the meta.
July 10, 2013 12:46 p.m.
Oh, and Intangible Virtue would not serve this deck well. It's a dead draw if I don't have tokens, which this deck is not built around. My turn 2 is normally occupied with much more important plays than a dead enchantment. This is NOT a token deck; tokens are just efficient tools I use to maintain card advantage and a powerful board position.
July 10, 2013 12:48 p.m.
Dude, what you should do is, put in 4x Breeding Pool and 4x Hallowed Fountain , and 4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor .
Congrats, your deck is already better.
July 10, 2013 6:48 p.m.
rsloan1996 says... #12
Add a grove of the guardian? The way I see it it fits pretty beautifully
E.g. if at the enf of the opponents 6th turn you have a silver heart in hand two creatures up as you needed to block lethal but they survived you could drop in the token and then possibly make it a 12/12 ... you ranvor it with your 1 open mana and boom swing for 14 with trample then block whatever he has with it again
BOOM!
July 10, 2013 7:11 p.m.
I used to run Grove of the Guardian when I didn't have Gavony Township , but honestly, I'd rather have the colored mana. The deck can get pretty color intensive, and every little bit helps in the early game.
July 10, 2013 8:54 p.m.
I just wanted to say that I love where this deck has gone. I've been following it from the beginning.
I'd also like to back Lostsorrow on adding a Angel of Serenity to this deck. It is a great finisher, and with the 4 Restoration Angel 's, she can consistently be used to reload your hand with your creatures from the grave. Also you can use the Fiend Hunter permanent exile trick with Angel of Serenity to exile 3 threats permanently by flashing in your Restoration Angel , potentially clearing your opponents board.
July 11, 2013 2:37 a.m.
Wouldn't I need 11 mana to do that? Also, Angel of Serenity is an angel, so I can't target it with Restoration Angel .
July 11, 2013 9:55 a.m.
oops, forgot that little clause... :( Still a good card to consider, not as awesome in the deck as I had in mind. Carry on :P
July 11, 2013 10:14 a.m.
Lostsorrow says... #18
another consideration would be a single Cloudshift or 2. It can help re-soulbond, untap resto and blink again, or even give you life off of tusk. It also adds an additional blink to the deck for just 1 white.
July 11, 2013 10:33 a.m.
What would I replace for a spells that can possibly be a dead draw or just hurt me when I needed another creature?
July 11, 2013 12:15 p.m.
I don't mean to sound close-minded, it's just that I like the way the deck works and am hesitant to make any changes that will detract from it. If anyone makes a good argument for replacing any cards I will consider it, but I need sound reasoning behind it, and not just "this card will help"
July 11, 2013 12:57 p.m.
Have you thought about Gyre Sage ? Seems like a great two drop that fits your theme well. Maybe at 2x for two cards at the top of your curve or one resto and one charm? I've been experimenting with my own Selesnya build and Gyre Sage seems to fit really well (Come hear my voice). I would love to see the results of a head to head comparison of how these two decks fair against the archetype decks currently in standard, mainly because I think we both want to see how we can make a great Selesnya deck. Your deck is a little more "aggro" with Rancor , Silverblade Paladin , and Wolfir Silverheart . While mine sets up for the midrange build with Unflinching Courage and Trostani, Selesnya's Voice , where the lifegain plays a larger role in pulling out the win. But the CMC of the decks are similar, with a lot of overlap. I don't play online so it's tough for me to run the comparison myself, but it would be interesting to compare and contrast how they preform. You have a lot more experience actually playtesting your deck (as mine is a new build that I haven't run yet). Anyway, if you don't mind comparing them, I'd love the feedback.
July 11, 2013 3:18 p.m.
Haven't really given any thought to Gyre Sage . I can see it getting big somewhat quickly, but I'm not sure how consistently it would play. Maybe once Theros comes and I lose a bunch of cards I'll find a spot for it, I can see its benefits.
July 12, 2013 8:21 a.m.
Return to Selesnya vs Garden Hose Midrange (FNM results 3-1)
Goody opening hand; temple garden, sunpetal grove, plains, avacyns pilgrim, loxodon smiter, garruk primal hunter, angel of serenity.
Behgz opening hand; 2x glacial fortress, sunpetal grove, azorius charm, 2x restoration angel, supreme verdict.
Goody wins the toss, on the play
G1: plays Temple Garden, shocks for 2, lifes at G18/B20, casts avacyns pilgrim, passes.
B1: draws supreme verdict, plays sunpetal grove tapped, passes.
G2: draws gavony township, plays sunpetal grove, casts loxodon smiter, passes.
B2: draws Breeding Pool, plays Breeding Pool tapped, passes.
G3: draws selesnya charm, plays plains, moves to combat, swings with smiter, no blocks, lifes at G18/B16. Passes.
B3: draws cyclonic rift, plays glacial fortress, passes.
G4: draws avacyns pilgrim, plays gavony township, plays avacyns pilgrim, moves to combat, swings with smiter, Behgz casts azorius charm bouncing the smiter to the top of Goody library, passes.
B4: draws cyclonic rift, plays glacial fortress, passes.
G5: draws loxodon smiter, six mana open, not enough for serenity, only two green sources, not enough for garruk, casts loxodon smiter, Im not gonna run your pilgrims into a flashed in resto. Passes.
B5: draws snapcaster mage, casts supreme verdict, passes.
G6: draws avacyns pilgrim, casts avacyns pilgrim, passes.
B6: draws sunpetal grove, plays sunpetal grove, passes.
G7: draws advent of the wurm, passes at EoT Behgz flashes in a restoration angel, passes.
B7: draws temple garden, plays temple garden tapped, moves to combat, swings with resto in the air for 3, lifes at G15/B16. passes. at EoT, Goody flashes in an advent of the wurm token, passes.
G8: draws restoration angel, moves to combat, swings with wurm token, Behgz casts cyclonic rift targeting the wurm, passes.
B8: draws glacial fortress, plays glacial fortress, moves to combat, swings with resto, Goody flashes in his own resto, in response before blocks are declared, Behgz casts cyclonic rift returning the resto to Goody hand, no blocks, lifes at G12/B16. passes.
G9: draws silverblade paladin, casts silverblade paladin unpaired, passes.
B9: draws farseek, casts farseek, finds hallowed fountain, moves to combat, swings with restoration angel in the air for 3, lifes at G9/B16. passes.
G10: draws gavony township, plays gavony township, swings with sliverblade paladin, in response, Behgz casts restoration angel, moves to block phase, behgz selects resto to block silverblade, in response, Goody casts restoration angel paired to silverblade, then he casts Selesnya Charm giving silverblade +2/+2, he kills resto and survives the encounter. Passes.
B10: draws hinterland harbor, plays hinterland harbor, casts supreme verdict, passes.
G11: draws rancor, passes.
B11: draws snapcaster mage, casts snapcaster mage, targets azorius charm, casts azorius charm for card draw, draws; farseek, casts farseek, finds breeding pool, passes.
G12: draws voice of resurgence, casts voice of resurgence and casts rancor onto voice. Passes.
B12: draws sunpetal grove, plays sunpetal grove, passes.
G13: draws plains, plays plains, moves to combat, swings with voice of resurgence, chumps with snap caster, 3 tramples over, lifes at G9/B13, Goody gets an elemental token, re-casts rancor onto the token, in response, Behgz casts snapcaster, targeting cyclonic rift, casting it targeting the elemental token, it dies, rancor fizzles, hits the yard for good, passes.
B13: draws centaur healer, casts centaur healer, gains 3, moves to combat, swings with snapcaster for 2, lifes at G7/B16. passes.
G14: draws forest, FINALLY! Plays forest, now what to play, garruk or angel of serenity tough choices but the angel will make a big impact immediately, casts angel of serenity, targets opponents snap and centaur plus a silverblade paladin from own yard, passes.
B14: draws centaur healer, casts centaur healer, gains 3, lifes at G7/B19, passes.
G15: draws sunpetal grove, plays sunpetal grove, casts garruk primal hunter, makes a beast, moves to combat, swings with serenity for 5, lifes at G7/B14, passes.
B15: draws sphinxs revelation thank gawd. Passes.
G16: draws thragtusk, casts thragtusk, gains 5, swings with angel of serenity and beast token, centaur chumps the beast token, takes 5 in the air, lifes at G12/B9, garruk makes another beast, hes at 5 loyalties now, passes, at EoT, Behgz casts sphinxs revelation for 8, gains 8, draws 8, lifes at G12/B17, draws; restoration angel, farseek, thragtusk, centaur healer, thragtusk, glacial fortress, angel of serenity, and snapcaster mage.
B16: draws cyclonic rift, plays glacial fortress, casts angel of serenity, targeting opponents serenity, getting back snapcaster and centaur, opponent gets back silverblade paladin, targets a snapcaster and a resto in own graveyard, casts a thragtusk, gains 5, lifes at G12/B22, discards farseek to be at 7 in hand, passes.
G17: draws voice of resurgence, casts voice of resurgence, casts silverblade paladin paired to thragtusk, moves to combat, swings with dub strike thrag, no blocks, lifes at G12/B12, tie up the game much? makes a beast with garruk, now at 6 loyalties. Passes.
B17: draws temple garden, plays temple garden, shocks for 2, lifes at G12/B10, casts overloaded cyclonic rift, swings unblocked for 10, 2nd main, casts 2x centaur healer, gains 6, lifes at G2/B16, passes.
G18: draws forest, concedes.
Behgz Garden Hose Midrange (FNM results 3-1) Wins.
Thoughts on the round, WOW, that was another block buster round, I seem to be getting lucky as far as mid game draws, that sphinx there at the end saved my ass, as per usual, but more so than usual, considering I payed 8 into it, the life gain was very needed in that instance. If you feel as though you would have used garruks draw ability on turns 15 and possibly even 16, here are the next 5 cards you would have drawn; voice of resurgence, temple garden, loxodon smiter, plains, and a forest. Really dont think you could have come back after my sphinx whether you drew off garruk or not. Let me kno if u want me to do a game 2 with or without sb. Interesting side note, I never had u activate gavony, not that I was missing chances too, It just never became relevant for the most part, I mean I could've done it a few times there at the end, maybe..
July 17, 2013 3:27 p.m.
Behgz I love it. You should do these as articles. How do you do the matchups? It just occurred to me that you could do this through tapped out by opening a playtest window for each deck in question. Is that what you are doing?
July 17, 2013 3:36 p.m.
My laptop could handle that, but I own my deck as its listed on my page, foils and all, so I play my deck next to my laptop. I'm vain like that :P
Goody says... #1
I made a few sideboard changes and reset the comments; let me know what you think of the new sideboard!
July 9, 2013 12:19 a.m.