Curious what are your thoughts on Jeleva vs Zur? What made you go with Jeleva and what advantages do you feel she offers over Zur?

I've been kind of flip-flopping and not too sure which to go for. Thanks!

Jeleva gives me access to red blasts, Wheel of Fortune, Vandalblast and Gamble. Zur's acccess to white offers practically only Angel's Grace for the Nauseam combo and Silence which is pretty much a counterspell. Wheel of Fortune and Gamble are both super powerful cards and I value the red splash over the white one, and as a general Jeleva isn't much worse than Zur. Having Necropotence in your command zone + silver bullets in the form of O-Ring and friends is probably better, but Jeleva is a really good card too. Most of the time you do hit a wheel or a tutor so it's not like playing Jeleva sacrifices card advantage from the command zone for 2 powerful splash cards and then some cute stuff.

I'd say it comes down to preference, in addition to what I wrote above Jeleva does support a "true storm" build better with Mind's Desire and things, and I do find that playstyle more fun.

Have you tried out Isochron Scepter with this kind of build yet? For the combo with Dramatic reversal + rocks?

I briefly tested it before I did the switch to this slimmer, more rock heavy build and didn't like it there, mostly because both the cards felt bad. In this build with every possible 2cmc rock it could work since Reversal is great with the higher density of rocks, I guess I'll test it again. The thing is the combo doesn't win the game immediately unlike it does with Thrasios or Oona so I've been a little hesitant to just jam it, though it doesn't need that much to just win. Any tutor for Mind's Desire is gg.

And if you go even more jank you could slot back Copy Artifact, imprint Chain of Vapor and use Jeleva to exile your oppnents' decks. It'd probably never be relevant but it would be a 3rd wincon in case I'd get incredibly unlucky with Jeleva flips :P

I own every card on this list except Timetwister. What would you suggest replacing it with?

Time Spiral. The recursion is relevant sometimes.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why not run Krark-Clan Ironworks. Cast all your rocks....sac them all, Yawgmoth's Will, recast...up storm count and most of them cost nothing or pay for themselves. Net mana, net storm count.

Is there a reason Snapcaster Mage is excluded? Were you finding it just not doing enough for the storm game plan to warrant an inclusion?

Krark-Clan Ironworks sounds stupid enough to actually work. The deck doesn't really have that many 0 or 1cmc artifacts so it doesn't really turn things into rituals even though it does one-shot a lot of mana if I get it down. The cost of 4 mana, only working with Yawgmoth's Will and being quite dead otherwise makes me thing it's not that good.

Snapcaster Mage is a card I just find lacking. Paying 2 extra for a tutor or a wheel mid storm turn is terrible and for the grindy games I think just running an additional counterspell or gas card is better. I think there are better cards the deck cound run.

Recently became interested in trying this deck out, curious as to the exclusion of cards I would have previously considered 'staples' to this archetype, such as Intuition / Past in Flames. Also wondering about the inclusion of Aetherflux Reservoir but not Paradoxical Outcome? Are these 3+ CMC cards just too clunky in the competitive meta?

Intuition is kinda bad without Past in Flames, it fuels YawgWin lines well enough but those would require you to actually have the YawgWin in hand. Outside them I've never been that impressed with Intuition, a 3 mana instant tutor that can't be used to get the best cards like Nauseam or Doomsday or Notion Thief isn't super exiting. I've even thought about cutting Grim Tutor just because 3 mana for a tutor is just so much mana.

Past in Flames is just a bad Yawgmoth's Will, drawing either usually doesn't feel good but not being able to do LED shenanignas with Past in Flames plus the costing 4 made me cut Past in Flames. I haven't missed it, if I want to tutor the effect YawgWin is just strictly better.

Thanks for responding so fast! How useful have you found Jace, Vryn's Prodigy? Also still curious about Paradoxical Outcome, when I was goldfishing it seemed to usually be a sort of combination turnabout / wheel, providing additional storm count, mana (through net positive rocks / re-using candelabra) and card draw. Have you considered it at all or again is 4 CMC just too much?

JVP has been underperforming to be honest, not being able to loot the same turn + digging only one card deep is not that strong, and the flashback too is rarely exiting, just okay. I've cut it from my most recent list but this one's unchanged since I'm playing in the /r/competitiveedh tournament and I'm not allowed to change it because of that. Baral, Chief of Compliance is the new spiciest tech I'm testing.

Paradoxical Outcome is just too fat, it's almost like a strictly worse Hurkyl's Recall. It doesn't do double duty as artifact removal, hits for 4 from nauseam and drawing cards while good is either not going to be that relevant on the combo turn and on a non-combo turn the deck rarely has enough rocks you want to bounce for it to be good. I'd play Retract before Paradoxical Outcome but I don't think the deck wants two of the effect, you do moderately often tutor for Hurkyl's for Desire lines and stuff but those happen when you've notionwheeled or naused and it's possile to tutor for Hurkyl's.

Hey dude, love the list, it's giving me a nice launching point into grixis with leovold doomsday being my main deck. One question for you, i noticed that you opted for a lot more of the fast mana rocks whereas Moxnix's version goes higher up on the curve with gilded lotus and mind over matter. Do you feel that the lotus into mind over matter line is just too clunky with Isochron? Also, being that I play solely paper magic, and Candelabra and Timetwister are just out of the budget at the moment, what would your recommendation be for a substitute for those 2? I know how important Candelabra is for high tide but is there a way to play high tide effectively without the candle? Thanks dude!

cEDH decks have become so much faster and more consistent that going as high on the curve as Moxnix with Gilded Lotus and MOM is just wrong, you never want to see those cards in your hand when going against Selvala or FCT or something. MOM as a line was just pretty win-more, if you're able to hit 6 mana on your Nauseam turn there's most likely some other line available that leads to winning the game. Lotus is just bad.

Candelabra isn't in fact that important, it's nice to have since there's actually a lot of little synergies it offers. It fixes mana, makes mana with Ancient Tomb, is funny against Winter Orb and of course the High Tide synergy. Overall it's not that needed though and can be replaced with an additional rock or an interaction spell or a gas card or something. Timetwister is hard since the card is just super good and the recursion is actually pretty relevant. You still do want the effect so I'd just slot Time Spiral back as a replacement.

Would you ever seriously consider bubbling muck as a "second high tide" in the Candelabra slot? It combos decently well with urborg, though I really like having another gas card as that's the big issue I find myself having.

No, the deck doesn't get enough swamps into play consistently that it'd be better than Rite of Flame most of the time. I'd play even Rain of Filth before Muck. Plus I'm not even on urborg, and if I were spending a tutor for it to get Muck online would never feel good.

One other thing, have to ever considered running paradox engine or is that just too high on the curve to act as a secondary win and likely belongs in a deck built around it? I've played paradox engine since it's printing and have gotten quite comfortable with it, though I feel paradox engine may just fit better with sultai shells. Any chance that this could be a line that could he considered over the scepter/reversal package?

I feel like Paradox Engine would be rather win-more, if I'm able to hit 5 mana with enough cards in hand to start going off there's probably some other line. The only thing why I'd concider playing Engine is if people played more Sphere effects since Engine kind of allows me to storm around them, but as it is I don't feel like the deck wants to run a 5 mana card that's dead outside the combo turn and not totally necessary during.

Perfect! Your list has been a fantastic starting point for Grixis for me, so thank you for taking the time to answer these questions:)

How is this a deck? 27 lands is not a "competitive" deck. How many lands do you draw in a game Rev, like, what, 8?

You obviously need to go to 26.

<3

So Rev, now Moxnix is back making YouTube videos, are you two gonna team up or be rivals?

Is that a challenge? Should I now make my own YouTube channel? :P

Yes :p

Make a YouTube channel and I would watch that in a heartbeat, can't see the difference between this list and your paper list, the description says no bob in paper but neither list has bob?