mathimus55 says... #2
I've thought about Thing in the Ice Flip out of the board for some match ups, but Young Pyromancer and the token producing plays incredibly well with Atarka's Command and Violent Outburst pumping the team. I do think Thing would be worth trying for the Affinity and the go wide match ups if I can flip him quick but I think Pyro matches up better against the field.
April 10, 2016 9:45 a.m.
I think it may also depend on your meta. Where I am, there will be a lot of token hate because of Sword of the Meek which is only reason I thought about it.
April 10, 2016 7:51 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #4
Yep. There is a super diverse playgroup thoughout my area, there aren't many decks that run much in terms of sweepers, there are only 1 or 2 guys I know that play Tron, and just a few control players, most of the removal is 1-for-1, which isn't good if I can flood the board with tokens. Plus my main deck I've been playin for 2+years is merfolk so I was looking to keep the blue to a minimum.
April 10, 2016 8:47 p.m.
Ah, that is understandable for sure.
My final question revolves around Scavenging Ooze. How good is that spell in your deck? For a delver deck, is it too mana intensive and may or may not have anti-synergy with Tarmogoyf.
April 10, 2016 8:54 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #6
It's more targeted grave hate for the more and more popular Abzan Company/KiKi-Chord type decks that chain Eternal Witness with Collected Companys and to keep the Sword of the Meek engine from doing much. One of my best friends also plays Living End so Scooze can help keep that from getting out of hand. It's a threat that needs to get addressed otherwise it can get out of hand, it's been a pet card of mine for a while, always overperforming. It came down to Scooze or Relic of Progenitus for some sort of grave hate, and I'd rather have an extra threat instead of watering my deck down more.
April 10, 2016 9:08 p.m.
Very true. I have never played the RUG version of Delver and my experience with U/R (and sometimes Grixis) delver is staying relatively low to the ground. I guess I can see how Ooze is good if you have nothing to do and can become a big threat without completely shutting off your goyf.
April 11, 2016 midnight
Also, how does it feel to cascade into an Ancestral Vision at instant speed (if it has happened)? lol
April 11, 2016 12:01 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #9
I haven't done it in paper yet but testing with some buddies it's pretty nifty. No lies. It might be more fun to swing with a few guys and they try to pick some creatures off so you Violent Outburst into Atarka's Command to dome them for 3 and pump your team for lethal.
April 11, 2016 12:13 a.m.
DarksteelBadger says... #10
This is a neat deck! I would highly recommend at the very least 2 Remand as the card is such a good tempo play. Electrolyze is also a great card. I'm not a fan of Echoing Truth, but that might just be me. If you search it up, you will find a deck called Monkey Grow that runs Tarmogoyf, Hooting Mandrills, Disrupting Shoal, and Stubborn Denial. It reminds me of this list, and maybe you could look for suggestions. +1 from me!
September 24, 2016 8:59 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #11
There are some aspects of Jordan Boisvert's Monkey Grow deck(I'm assuming you're talking about his deck he writes about over at Modern Nexus that I'm very familiar with) but his deck is more built to take advantage of Disrupting Shoal and filling the graveyard quickly. I am not a big fan of Tarmogoyf and Hooting Mandrills fighting over the same resources. I prefer to use the Bedlam Reveler instead for a couple reasons, mainly being that he can coexist with Tarmogoyf much better. Basically his sideboard for interaction with other decks is my mainboard so I can use more proactive cards in my side instead. Both are just targeted to beat different types are decks.
Remand is fine, but not the direction that the deck wants to go. The counter spells in the deck are meant to deal with a card for good and not just to delay the inevitable like Remand does. I prefer the Izzet Charm or Stubborn Denial because of the versatility or just outright countering without ability to recast the spell. This version of RUG wants to answer cards by removal or hard counters instead of tempo-Ing out the other side.
Electrolyze was in the initial draft but 3 mana is too much to spend for 3 mana. The cantrip effect was fine, but early game if we are stuck short on lands we will wish it was just a Forked Bolt. Electrolyze was just too mana inefficient for the damage which is what the deck really cares about. There are enough ways to find a silver bullet with Traverse the Ulvenwald, Bedlam Reveler or the looting effects we don't need to slow ourselves down to 3 mana.
September 24, 2016 12:14 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #12
I also forgot to mention that Echoing Truth is one of our only mainboard outs to any enchantments that hit the battlefield and is also a general good answer to any go wife strategy. Zoo decks, affinity, Lantern control, etc will usually have some opportunities to 2 for 1 someone. Being able to hit any nonland permanent is the big reason this gets in the deck.
September 24, 2016 12:19 p.m.
Snapdisastermage says... #13
deck doesn't seem right without Cryptic Commandor atleast Snapcaster Mage
September 28, 2016 5:29 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #14
Cryptic Command in a 3 color deck is very hard to pull off. In a deck with only 18 lands(most being fetches) it's just not really a viable option. In the deck there is only 1 card that has any double color requirements in Bedlam Reveler, since the deck focuses on running efficiently the triple-blue in the cost. Not that Cryptic isn't a powerful card, but the cost is so restrictive that it's not really an option for a 3 color Delver deck.
Snapcaster Mage right now in the meta at my shop is not very good. Only being able to flashback a single spell is nice, but beyond the initial extra bolt/counterspell he becomes irrelevant very fast. He can't become a beater like Tarmogoyf can, blocks poorly and has no evasion. If zoo/aggressive decks pick back up in my area then he might get a spot in the deck again, but as of right now he isn't what the deck wants. He also can delay Bedlam Reveler from coming down by a turn or 2, which really hurts the deck. I also never get to play against affinity, which is where he would be a great help.
September 29, 2016 12:43 p.m.
Snapdisastermage says... #15
I did not notice the land count. My apologies. I am just so use to the Eternal command RUG build.
September 29, 2016 12:46 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #16
No worries. The deck isn't the traditional RUG delver build by any means. Traverse the Ulvenwald hasn't gotten a whole lot of play yet but when you can tutor for any creature by turn 2 it makes you favored in lots of different matchups too. Last night there were several infect decks in the room and I was able to turn 2 Traverse for Melira, Sylvok Outcast and drop her turn 3 to get instant scoops. The deck is almost as tool box-y as the Abzan Company lists with the 1-ofs and tutor package. It's very very fun at the same time.
September 29, 2016 12:56 p.m.
Snapdisastermage says... #17
Yeah, I really really like traverse. I think it is a breaker card. I just haven't figured out what I want to do with it yet
September 29, 2016 1:23 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #19
Incredibly. There are a few other players that have been trying it. You only want to see 1-2 per game, I don't think there is a deck right now that wants all 4 since it's a dead draw in the early turns. Against BGx, any sort of grindy deck like Mardu and control decks he is a powerhouse. They can't bolt him, he makes Stubborn Denial a hard non-creature counter and he reloads the hand. So good. He enables so many crazy plays.
September 29, 2016 8:11 p.m.
Cool list. I'm a big fan of Reveler myself so any deck that uses him gets my upvote. A couple questions/comments. What would you consider to be this decks strengths over something more established such as Jund? What is your reasoning for running Tarfire? It seems very weak at first glance. Also I would like to second the recommendation for Remand. This deck seems like it would benefit from the tempo of that card.
October 1, 2016 3:09 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #21
Tarfire is for interacting as efficiently as possible. Having extra damage spells helps us close games a little bit faster, but right now there aren't many decks that the difference between 2 and 3 makes a huge difference. Plus it has the tribal card type which feeds our goyfs that much more.
As stated above, Remand isn't a permanent answer to problem cards, which this deck doesn't like. Disrupting Shoal is the counter that I would rather run over Remand since it lets us tap out during our turn as be a psuedo-Force of Will.
October 1, 2016 12:16 p.m.
I can definitely see Disrupting Shoal being an option over Remand. However, It seems extremely risky to me because you are hitting yourself with a two for one in a deck that doesn't seem to have much gas. I understand wanting to answer a card permanently but if you Remand a 4CMC spell, that's basically just as good. The tempo you get off of a play like that usually wins you the game.
October 1, 2016 12:34 p.m.
I really do like the idea of abusing Bedlam Reveler. Is there a reason you are not playing Spell Snare? 3 Stubborn Denial and 1 Dispel seem like a hell of a lot. Those spells are amazing when good, but will offten be dead draws. Spell Snare Handles an awful lot of good cards in modern. Not playing it in a blue shell seems like a wasted opportunity. I'd probably play 2 in your shell.
I also agree with the Remand bandwagon. Remand is a card that generates a significant amount of tempo, cantrips and fills your graveyard and triggers prowess. It really does everything you are looking for.
The amount of 2 damage burn spells you play seems high. I figure you play them in order to destroy creatures which are out of range of Lightning Bolt. I understand that Snapcaster Mage is contradictory to your strategy of fueling Bedlam Reveler and not giving a hoot about card advantage. Nevertheless access to that card wil help you significantly against a wide range of matchups. Bolt -> Snap -> Bolt is to good to pass on.
Vapor Snag could be interestig for you. It removes enemy blockers or allows you to return Bedlam Reveler to your hand after attacking for even more cards.
JakeKita says... #1
You might be better off switching out Young Pyromancer with Thing in the Ice Flip. I really like the cascade aspect you have as well.
April 10, 2016 1:28 a.m.