landofMordor says... #2
Love the deck, friend! I played a version of this myself on Arena, when Chandra, Torch of Defiance was legal (that mana curve felt so good). If I get tired of jamming GB Rock builds (which I can’t afford in paper but can draft for in Arena), this will be what I try next.
My favorite card in this 75 is The First Eruption — it’s not a card I considered for my build, but now I love the idea and I’m itching to try it! My only possible suggestion would be to consider a pseudo-sweeper like Cannonade/Eruption in the main, to slow the Wg tokens decks, and to trigger your own Enrage/Eggs vs control in Game 1s. Highly meta-dependent, I know, but it served me well in the unpredictable meta of Arena.
On an unrelated note, I also appreciate that you don’t take any flak from haters, and you make it clear that you’re not being rude, you’re just honoring your own emotional and personal limits. It shows a lot of self-honesty and integrity, and I admire that. Hope you and StuBi are well and are enjoying GRN. Cheers!
September 29, 2018 11:16 p.m. Edited.
Kizmetto Dragon's Hoard and Arch of Orazca are my late game draw engines.
The way I play I never need draw until later.
The ability to return Spit Flame to hand provides for artificial draw.
Dismissive Pyromancer and Sarkhan, Fireblood also provide artificial draw in the late game by saccing lands to get a card in hand.
So far this deck has fared well in testing against Aggro, Lifegain Tokens, and Jund.
I need to find a Control deck to play it against. I'm a bit limited for choice until the Pros start playing their decks.
September 30, 2018 5:40 a.m.
You're a class act landofMordor.
I haven't really tested this much against Control yet. I'll keep in mind your idea to Mainboard Fiery Cannonade when I do.
September 30, 2018 5:42 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #6
Maybe Risk Factor? Trying to think of stuff you can pitch with Sarkhan or Pyromancer that has later value, jump-start could be good for that and figure if you get their life down they’ll have to choose the draw 3 giving more gas. Of course Hoard also helps draw so might not be needed
October 2, 2018 11:38 a.m.
It's not a BAD idea.
There do seem to be a lot of decks around that have life gain, so I suspect that card won't be amazing in the current meta. We won't know until Standard season really gets into full swing.
My other concern with it is that my 3 drop slot is pretty much full, and I don't think Risk Factor offers better value than what I have there already.
As always, thanks for the suggestion, and I will keep it in mind Jimmy_Chinchila.
October 2, 2018 11:54 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #8
Sarkhan's Unsealing might be fun with Lathliss and such. I agree 3-spot pretty full. Just saw you already considered Unsealing so assuming it wasn’t up to snuff
October 2, 2018 12:50 p.m. Edited.
i love this! and that is weird since red is my least favorite color. ive played against many dragon decks with my wall deck, and i tend to utterly destroy them because their 3-lower simply cant touch me, and the way my deck is built, i have more answers for big stuff than most decks have big stuff. your combination of Spit Flame and Fight with Fire would rip me to pieces though. Its refreshing to see a good looking red deck that isnt just a playset of Rekindling Phoenix, Goblin Chainwhirler and Guttersnipe
October 2, 2018 6:03 p.m.
Thanks xhuggels. Is this good enough to get an upvote?
I might run some tests against your walls.
Jimmy_Chinchila there isn't a big enough payoff for Sarkhan's Unsealing in this deck.
It did poorly in testing.
My current 2 drops give far more value than Kargan Dragonrider, letting me either smooth out draw, or becoming a 3/3 that can defend in the early game.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
October 2, 2018 6:28 p.m. Edited.
Hey Argy! Nice to see you making decks again! Have you considered Goblin Chainwhirler in place of Shake the Foundations?
October 2, 2018 7:03 p.m.
It's not a terrible thought.
The Instant speed and draw of Shake the Foundations tips it over the edge for me.
I'll keep Chainwhirler in mind.
Thanks for the suggestion.
October 2, 2018 7:39 p.m.
Its absolutely good enough for an upvote! I love me some decks that arent exactly meta. This deck packs a ton of answers that need to be dealt with, and it seems like it should be able to at least defend itself against aggro long enough to get your win-cons out. Great job!
October 2, 2018 10:44 p.m.
Pabs4444 thinking about it more, I am going to use your suggestion of Goblin Chainwhirler in the Sideboard.
What won me over is that it isn't limited to Creatures that don't fly, and the fact that it damages both a Player and their Planeswalker.
Another Creature is also always handy against Control decks. I always find a good strategy against them is to play so many Creatures that they run out of ways to deal with them.
October 3, 2018 9:01 a.m.
Hey Argy. Glad you like my suggestion! I understand the appeal of drawing a card instant speed, but I feel a cheap 3 mana threat that has first strike and remove creatures on ETB is good enough for somewhere in the 75. Best of luck with the deck!
October 3, 2018 10:22 a.m.
In regards to Risk Factor, i think you've already made your mind up about it, but i would confirm your suspicions that it is just straight up a bad card. Every-time anyone has cast it against me i just take the 4 life, so you gotta decide whether paying to deal 4 damage is worth it, and in those terms Lightning Strike and Shock are just way more efficient. It kinda feels like Sword-Point Diplomacy in a way, and there is a reason that card never saw play. its slightly better since its in red and red has fever draw options, but 4 life is also way less against a red deck than against any other color, since red has so many ways of making 4 life disappear. Chances are, if taking 4 damage is going to make you lose the game and you are forced to give them 3 cards instead, they will draw something to take the life anyway, so its just never a sound option to give red the cards.
October 3, 2018 10:47 a.m.
xhuggels thanks for that extra, well-reasoned information.
Sometimes I just feel something about cards in my gut.
I'm not always right. Every now and then a card I've been resistant to turns out to be better than I thought.
Other times a card that works well for others just doesn't for me.
It's nice to know that logic backs up my suspicions, in this case.
HARDsofty thanks mate for the vote.
October 4, 2018 8:48 a.m.
ShiningSpear says... #20
You might want to consider dropping an Arch of Orazca for a Field of Ruin. Search for Azcanta Flip (and to a lesser extent, Legion's Landing Flip) is still a big threat in Standard.
October 4, 2018 9 a.m.
ShiningSpear yeah good call, although I think I'll replace a Mountain.
I kind of need both the Arches to give me a better chance of late game draw.
Thinking about it a little more I'm not that concerned with 1/1s when I can fly over and block them with 4/4s, and the draw doesn't worry me too much either as I am so Creature-heavy.
October 4, 2018 9:08 a.m. Edited.
Argy,
It's so great to see you (and your sweet, sweet decks) back!
I had tested Sarkhan + Sarkhan's Whelp a bunch back in M19 and was pretty consistently underwhelmed by the Whelp. I mean, it was never bad, but I was never overjoyed to get one in hand. That was a very different deck of course so it might be amazing here, but whenever I see Whelp I wonder about other options ...
Maybe Runaway Steam-Kin? It's a removal magnet to be sure, but any turn where we can untap with it is going to be a really good turn :-) Legion Warboss is another option, that can get out of hand quickly.
Draw well, friend!
October 4, 2018 9:39 a.m. Edited.
clayperce you're missing some key interactions.
Yes, Dragon Whelp is not an amazing card. It's only a 2/2 flier that can get a tiny bit of direct damage in when Sarkhan is on the field.
However, it also does the following:
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Makes a 5/5 Dragon if Lathliss, Dragon Queen is on the field
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Puts a gold counter on Dragon's Hoard, which then assists with draw
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Allows Spit Flame to recur for a lousy extra
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Helps protect Sarkhan from fliers with a chump block
This deck is VERY Tribal, and needs Dragons on all parts of the curve to make it sing.
You have to see it through Argy's Magic googles, which are like beer goggles, only better.
October 4, 2018 10:43 a.m.
clayperce one other thing I will add, that has been something I've noticed since I first started playing Magic.
Not a lot of people use early flying Creatures in their decks.
Which means that Sarkhan's Whelp often has the opportunity to ping Planeswalkers, while my deck is getting itself set up for massive flying damage in the late game.
Stopping a Planeswalker from hitting its ultimate often cripples an Opponent's deck.
October 4, 2018 11:06 a.m.
Argy,
Oh, I totally get all the Dragon synergies from Whelp, especially the Lathliss piece (which is hilarious in Modern because of Dragon Tempest). They just never seemed to add up enough (for me) to be worth it. It reminded me a lot of when I was playing Werewolves ... when all the potential synergies lined up it was A Thing of Beauty™. But often the sacrifice (of running an otherwise meh Werewolf card) was just not worth it.
All that said, you're a much better brewer than me, so it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that you've been able to get those Dragons singing! :-)
Kizmetto says... #1
I'm struggling to find suggestions in this build, it looks really solid already. Or you've already tested it or considered it aha.
What kind of decks have you tried this against, found it particularly good against certain match ups?
I'd like to do some testing of this myself, i do wonder if you ever run out of cards in your hand?
Also i really like the "how to play" section on your write ups, very handy to know when testing :)
Solid deck, +1 !
September 28, 2018 9:03 a.m.