You may have the wrong idea about green. I happen to know that Nostalgic Dreams is a very powerful recursion effect for 2 mana, especially if you have lands already in the grave from perhaps a sac outlet like Scapeshift? I would also point out that Sasaya need only have the same named lands for his flip effect, so if you had used a bunch of utility lands that sacked themselves, and popped them back into your hand, then now you've suddenly got the required seven you need to flip him around. Just a thought.

First off, while I have very few sources as to the gender of Sasaya, I'm pretty sure she's female.

Second, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to suggest. Add Scapeshift and Nostalgic Dreams? I mean, I tried Dreams once upon a time, but there are not that many cards you want to get back from the graveyard, and discarding as a cost is a real cost. Even the most forgiving counterspell, say Arcane Denial or Remand, still puts you incredibly down on cards and, while there are comeback mechanisms (Sylvan Library and Life from the Loam, for example), it can still be difficult to come back once you're down.

In terms of utility lands, there's not a lot of non-Forest lands that this deck wants. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is the only major one I can think of, maybe Ash Barrens or Dark Depths if I was feeling particularly spicy, but other than those I'm not even close to sure what you are suggesting.

Thanks,

-r

Hello there, First thing first, nice deck ! I love your Sasaya build. But I kind of wanted your advice on a certain card : what is your best use of Uncage the Menagerie ? Is it most of the time in early game for 3cmc or more for the 6cmc to finish off ? Also, I'm curently running Magus of the Library in my deck over Scroll of Origins for the early game mana accel and draw, even if its more restrictive than the scroll. Have you tried both and do you have any advices ?Thx and again and good job for you build

My most common use for Uncage the Menagerie is at X=3 for Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Eternal Witness, and some utility third creature like Dosan the Falling Leaf or Skullwinder. Spending 9 mana to find the three CMC = 6 creatures -- two of which you'd rather Genesis Wave in anyways -- doesn't seem like a winning proposition.

I'm not personally impressed by the merits of Magus over Scroll, largely because it's easier for a creature to die in setup than an artifact and Scroll also can do things the turn it comes into play, but Magus isn't so horrible that I couldn't see a version of this deck running it.

Thanks for your comment,

-r

Hi, I too play a Sasaya-deck of my own. Would suggest the Patron of the Orochi + Temur Sabertooth-combo, with Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant flipped and atleast 4 lands on the battlefield and a haste outlet it will generate infinite mana. Better, with 5 lands and Tooth and Nail in your hand + haste you can tutor the combo straight onto the battlefield. Then you can use the mana (for exaple) to make a infinite Genesis Wave. And fore more haste Concordant Crossroads could do the job. Here's a link to my own deck Go Big or Go Home!. Hope this was helpful.

That is something I hadn't really considered. I prefer my "beeline for Genesis Wave" kill mentioned above because Wave with three permanent Regrowth effects means that Wave>Wave>Kill happens with enough consistency that extra mana (read: anything between 2300 and "indeterminately large") doesn't really matter.

Everything in this deck, therefore, is tuned to either be ready to flip Sasaya, or chaining draws into more action. I've been frustrated enough sometimes missing off of a key draw spell, and because a flipped Sasaya makes you the biggest target in the room, I'd like to keep those misses to a minimum.

Of course, this does mean that my build does miss out on "staple" interactive spells like Acidic Slime and All Is Dust. Cards like those, not a reasonably answerable Tooth and Nail combo, are the reasons I'd consider inspiration from your version.

Thanks,

-r

why not include animist awakening, summer bloom, or life crafters beastiary?

I understand why you would think those cards would be good, but I haven't found any of them to be in practice. Let's go down the list:

• Animist's Awakening: The big problem with this card is that it's a sorcery. To be more specific to my point, it's not a creature. In a deck consisting of land search effects and creature tutors, this is a big problem, as the cards that can find it (Planar Portal and Ring of Three Wishes) would much rather find Genesis Wave instead. I used to have Collective Voyage in this deck filling a similar role, but cut it for all these reasons and I'm not convinced Animist's Awakening is significantly better.
• Summer Bloom: As an Amulet Titan player, I have a soft spot for this card, but for the same reasons as Animist's Awakening, it just doesn't belong in the deck. Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Wayward Swordtooth, and Oracle of Mul Daya are creatures (see above), so they get to keep their slot, and Journey of Discovery is versatile enough to keep its slot, and Summer Bloom is just left in this weird in-between where it can't compare to any of these cards despite it's similar effect.
• Lifecrafter's Bestiary: I could maybe get behind this one if more than fifteen percent of this deck was creatures. As it stands, it barely does anything (Rowen would be better and I'm not yet sure if I want that) and the times that it does do something, that something is middling.

To round it all off, your suggestions would take the maindeck to 102 cards, which of course is more than the Commander/EDH-required 99 plus a Commander/General. Do you have any suggestions for cuts, or are you just sounding off cards that you think might be okay?

Best,

-r

I'm just suggesting cards that might be good, I have a super budget build of Sasaya and I find that animists awakening has been a real all-star. If you have Sasaya flipped and you can cast awakening for x < 25 with spell mastery then you can usually get at least 18 lands (I run more lands then you so this may vary) which then gives you essential infinite mana and less lands which means better draws. In the case of summer bloom, I'm not sure of you're Stratagy but personally I don't play more than four lands until I can flip Sasaya so summers bloom gives me the ability to still have tons of mana on the same turn I play Sasaya. Lifecrafter's beastiary lets you hit the lands you need to flip Sasaya and afterwards can help get rid of the lands and draw you cards. Despite how good I believe these cards are, you run less creatures/finishers and more tutors so they may not perform as well in your deck as they do in mine.

So again I have to ask: What cards do I cut? This isn't a question that can just be dismissed off-hand. If I could fathom a way of playing Battle of Wits, for example, I would. But the deckbuilding rules of Commander don't allow that. Ignoring that (perhaps hypocritically), let me address the rest of your post:

On Animist's Awakening (again): I like having "one big turn" with Sasaya, because otherwise she's doing next to nothing. Awakening is a good ramp spell, and you're right, it's especially good in Sasaya, but why ramp more when your opponents could just be dead? I've tried the card and it didn't work out. This same reason applies to Lifecrafter's Bestiary, not to mention that adding this card would require an overhaul of the entire deck.

But speaking of variations in style, commenting "I'm not sure of you're [sic] Stratagy [sic]" is kind of... insulting, I guess? Like, there's this block of text just below the deck that outlines exactly how I play this variation of Sasaya. The fact that you apparently hadn't read any of it kind of ruins any other suggestions you might have made.

-r

You gave an outline of your strategy, not ever mentioning how many lands you play before you start to stockpile them in hand. I'm not saying that is important enough to include in your short synopsis of you deck in the description but in the case of whether or not to play summer's bloom I think it is important and I did not know, so I did not pretend to know. As for what cards to cut, that is a very personal decision, you may be a person who would cut a better card for a card that is more fun, you may not be, your playgroup could be very fast and competitive or it may not be, the decision of whether or not to play those cards and what cards to take out is a decision that only you can make. I was not even suggesting that you SHOULD put them in your deck, only that you COULD put them in your deck.

On one last note you could play with and win with battle of wits in edh if your playgroup allowed for cards that let you get things you own from outside the game actually get things from outside the game instead of your sideboard (which you can't have in edh) like sanctioned events. If they do allow that then you can play battle of wits and then play spawnsire of ulamog and activate spawnsire's ability getting 202 Kozilek, butcher of truths from out side the game. Then 201 of them instantly legend rule them selves, going to the graveyard and getting shuffled into your library. then on you next upkeep you win the game due to battle of wits.

I'm going to be ignoring your comments on not recognizing my personal play-style because it is possible you missed this quote: "TURNS 7+: [...] If you haven't managed seven lands in hand by now, you should be actively pursuing it, possibly even missing land drops" which would imply in my eyes to stop on six (leaving twenty-eight mana (six lands plus a land drop after tapping three for Sasaya) for the combo turn, if you missed that also). I'm more interested in this quote from you anyways:

"I was not even suggesting that you SHOULD put them in your deck, only that you COULD put them in your deck."

Here's your original quote again in full:

"why not include animist [sic] awakening, summer bloom, or life crafters [sic] beastiary [sic]?"

I responded why I don't, perhaps coming off a little more hostile than I intended, I admit, to which you spent a paragraph listing why you run them. This comes off (to me) as less bringing up cards to my consideration and more demanding that they be put in. If that wasn't your intention, may I ask why this paragraph wasn't in your original comment?

Lastly, if we're being pedantic about Battle of Wits in EDH, try picking a Legendary Eldrazi that doesn't kill you when 202 of them are cast at once.

-r

I was legitimately asking why not include them so I could use your reasoning to help me with my deck, I was not saying that you should. As for your first paragraph, I will admit that I didn't see that. And for the battle of wits thing I didn't even think about it, I just picked a random legendary eldrazi and it was obviously the wrong choice. Your comments did come off as somewhat passive aggressive to me but they were also concise and logical and it will really help me in my deckbuilding, thank you.

Can I recommend Storm Cauldron? With Sasaya online you're not hurt as much as everyone else, and if she isn't then just tap the lands and get them back in your hand. I've also had great success with Rocket Launcher / Goblin Cannon (activate, activate in response, copy, paste...). Maybe Dark Depths in a land slot and Helix Pinnacle as an alt win condition mana sink?

Thanks for the comment! Let me try to address your points as you made them:

• I find myself frequently making additional land drops post-Sasaya flip, which makes Storm Cauldron awkward. You say it hurts every one else more, but seeing as this is a deck that does nothing until it wins on turn six or seven, spending turn five on an artifact that just makes you a bigger target seems poor to me. The additional land drops are also why I'd rather not run Dark Depths; I'd really rather have as many forests in play as possible.
• So currently I have six payoffs for having loads of mana: Hydra Broodmaster, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Planar Portal, Ring of Three Wishes, Genesis Wave and Staff of Domination. I've never found the need for any more than these. Most of them clog up the pre-combo hand, too, which means I might even want fewer. The only reason Kamahl, for example, is even in the deck is because of fringe wrath effect cases and being at least decent after a whiffed combo turn.
• I'd rather people read the description I put out for the deck. It's a little outdated, but it does kind of address why I would rather not run Helix Pinnacle or Rocket Launcher. Put simply, once Sasaya flips, I'd really rather not pass the turn again, and these three cards tend to require that loss of tempo.
• I archived a similar discussion from the last update, but what do you think I should cut for the cards you are suggesting? I obviously can't run 101-105 cards, so what seems weakest in this list to you and why should one of these cards replace it? For example, if I cut Kamahl for Goblin Cannon, how does that make the deck better?

Thanks,

-r

Maybe Traverse the Ulvenwald?

Yeah, I thought about that a little too. It seems tempting, right? I mean, Evolution Charm has a slot, and that card's generally a forest with extra steps, so why not Traverse? One could easily just go -1 Forest +1 Traverse the Ulvenwald and it'd probably be worth it, right?

It isn't really, unfortunately. The problem is that there aren't that many ways to get Delirium either before or during the combo turn. There are only three relevant artifacts (Horizon Spellbomb, Armillary Sphere, and Wild-Field Scarecrow) and nowhere near enough other ways to dump cards (unless they start printing a lot more cycling lands). I have a hard enough time getting Spell Mastery for Nissa's Pilgrimage, and at least that card has a better fail case.

Evolution Charm earns its spot by being a regrowth for whatever casualty you had during the early turns. Sometimes you just need to play out an Eternal Witness for example, or getting back Wild-Field Scarecrow to get an extra land. Traverse, unfortunately, doesn't do any of that.

Thanks,

-r

Nice deck, might tinker with it pretty soon!!!

Mouth of Ronom to go along with your snow lands, green lacks creature removal as it is.

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea, doesn't it? Some drafts of this deck before I put it up on this site did indeed have Mouth (along with other utility lands like Dark Depths or Mosswort Bridge) but what happened was that actually slowed the deck down enough that it wasn't really worth it. Depths, to go into more detail than I gave in another comment, still costs thirty mana, and while that's doable, there are a lot more powerful things you can do with this deck if you have thirty mana. I'm not even sure Scrying Sheets is worth it yet, and that's the whole reason the Forests are Snow-Covered to begin with.

More to the point, Mouth of Ronom has a few problems. It costs six total to activate (five plus tapping itself), which, pre-combo is all or almost all of your lands, and once you're well into your combo, there isn't a lot of hate that can stop you that would require creature removal. At least, I haven't seen very much in my meta. Maybe yours is different?

Another problem, and maybe this is a little obvious, is that it's not a Forest, which is important when you're working with Sasaya. It will always only provide a single mana, even as your mana gets exponentially large, which means it's likely to just sit in your hand until it needs used. If it's likely stuck in your hand all game, the only relevant text is its land typing, so why not just make it a basic?

I will admit the deck is answer-light. Primal Command is the only card I use as an answer regularly (a card that also functions as a tutor), and I've eschewed cards like Hurricane and Goblin Cannon, which are answers that can also function as win-conditions should you draw them. This can promote a sort of "head-down, solitaire" style of play that some people find distasteful but I kind of like every once in a while.

Good luck with your build if you do come back to this! Sasaya's definitely a lot of fun.

-r

Rites of Spring :)

Also, Seek the Horizon ?