Heyo, really enjoy how the deck is built. I have built my own and I noticed that you did look at it as well. Your take on The Ur-Dragon looks really good. I personally would recommend some more card draw to keep you from running out of fuel. Rhystic Study is awesome as it can provide you card draw or slow your opponents down which is a real nice bonus seeing as it can allow your deck to get going faster. I would also recommend Rishkar's Expertise as another draw spell as with dragons that have high power, rishkar's will draw you a lot of cards, and then play something for free. I also really like Beacon of Unrest and I am currently trying to fit that into my version as well. Sorry if I can't suggest any cards to replace for the draw spells, but I do feel that maybe a little more draw could be used.

I also have a question. Is Crucible of Fire really worth it with dragons already being really strong? If it is, why not run Door of Destinies instead? It does the same thing after three dragons casts, and then gets stronger after that, though I guess the issue would be the build up versus instant power. I really do enjoy the deck and I think some of the spells in here are really great. Good luck with the play testing and keep up the good work. I enjoy seeing other versions of The Ur-Dragon.

I promise I am reading all the comments! I am doing midterms right now, but I will do a full reply and a deck list update tomorrow or Sunday! Thank you guys so much for the feedback!!!

Sorry for the delayed response! I just finished writing my midterm paper. I enjoy writing these responses much more, trust me!

mcmackerel: I am glad you guys are getting such a kick from the name! I am pretty proud of it myself, lol.

Zeros294: You know in my 8+ years of playing EDH, I have never heard of Dream Halls! Seems like a really good card in the PERFECT deck. I think there are three requirements 1) Your stuff have to have a high CMC and hard to cast CHECK. 2) You have to play MANY creature that can abuse the effect CHECK. 3) You need to be able to pull stuff out of your graveyard CHECK. 4) You need A LOT of card draw CHECK! This being said, I do feel like you need to play a ton of reanimate to make it worth it, which I plan on doing. Plus card draw is key, which I am working on!

Jamminmagician: Temur Ascendancy has been added since your post (still need to update my list). I think I will keep Elemental Bond though. You are right about Dragon Tyrant too, I took it out right after updating the deck, lol. I do think Shaman of Forgotten Ways is worth keeping in for the ramp and possible wincon though (more so for the needed ramp). I am not so sure about the double combat stuff. Out of all those cards I am thinking the most about Aggravated Assault and Bear Umbra (provides protection too). I will likely add Cavern of Souls once I get my hands on another copy :).

Derpsofdoom: Rhystic Study is in for sure, good call. I am not sure about one time draw effect like Rishkar's Expertise though. Missing with the second ability often with this deck is definitely a minus too. Crucible of Fire was kinda there, likely will come out, we will have to try it at least once first. Been thinking a lot about Door of Destinies...

The card I ordered for this deck should come in tomorrow! Once I get everything on hand it will be MUCH easier to update the list here.

I have been on the fence about making this a Primer. It will be my third, and they are pretty difficult to keep updated. However, this deck has been pulling a TON of support! (not much more votes then comments, but that is likely because of my absence...) What do you think???

Good afternoon. Well is Rishkar's Expertise isn't up your alley. Why not run both Elemental Bond and Temur Ascendancy. This was something that I was actually considering for my deck. I just love the drop a free 5 cmc spell with Rishkar's Expertise. Though the issue is yes, it does require that you have a giant dragon on the board. Other draw spells, it is hard to say where one can get consistent draw from. I always loved Soul of the Harvest in my Animar, Soul of Elements deck, so that might be why I like Elemental Bond and Temur Ascendancy. Plus if you have those both out, drawing two cards per dragon seems awesome.

I like the idea of Dream Halls, but I also really don't like the idea that the opponents can use it as well. If you don't kill the opponent the turn you drop this, it could end up being your downfall. Another thing I noticed is that you have Sarkhan Unbroken. I like this guy a lot and the flavor for every dragon deck is there, but lets face it, everybody is going to kill that thing ASAP so that you can't ult him. Maybe try Sarkhan the Mad? He was also something I was going to try in my deck. He can just potentially ult and kill somebody right off the bat. Thanks for the reply, and good luck on the continued construction of this deck. If you decide to make it a primer, really good luck. Thinking about making mine a primer.

Derpsofdoom Makes a lot of good points. In terms of card draw engines you'll just have to experience goldfishing the deck and playing in your meta. If you find you consistently can't value-off to victory or stop opponent combos/find answers then maybe you start cutting your under-performers for the bits and pieces you need.
I suggest keeping your line of thought on one or two game-winning combinations because sometimes your main strategy gets hosed and you have to play politically and quietly until you can win out of nowhere. Notably in dragons are the infinite attack steps with cards like savage ventmaw and hellkite charger being facilitating pieces and value engines of their own right, and of course Animate Dead and Worldgorger Dragon. You may find yourself, as I am, that the deck actually performs really well with one or two reanimation spells thrown in. I'm considering cutting down to the really strong value-dragons, reanimation package, infinite attack combos, and 5 colour good stuff to flesh out for consistency.

Warden of Evos Isleheartless summoning

i dont know how many times i've killed my local dragon players karthus and cast a reanimate on it i second the removal

+1 from me because of the creative name, and also for the fact that this is a fellow Ur-Dragon deck ;-) I haven't seen many Ur-Dragon decks on TappedOut yet, but I can definitely see potential in this one. It's a lot better than mine :-) trust me.

I love Ur-Dragon decks! If I may recommend Lurking Predators though, its a fun card IMO.

Working on an update now! It is hard to make cuts... Stay Tuned!

BOOM!!! Updated! Tell me what you think!

I am grateful for all of the support on this list! How many of you would like a Primer? The deck is very powerful, but also pretty straight forward. Let me know!

Scion of the ur-dragon > The ur-dragon

The ur-dragon is better in the deck over being played as a general.

xstuffstuffstuffx while it may be true that a budget-unlimited scion of the ur-dragon deck does better in a competitive mindset, or perhaps even a casual meta, that's not what this deck is built to do at all.
Your second point is just absolutely false, the ur-dragon as part of the 99 is just a one-time super high cost card you have to get to combat with to do anything with. I guess if you switched to a scion super-reanimator strategy then he's a reasonable include but he's definitely not a card who shines in the 99, none of the emminence commanders are they are intended, just like Oloro, to be played AS commanders. The Ur-dragon wants to put lots of beaters on the board, not play tutorable combos.

Heyo VexenX, I do enjoy the new list update. Line up seems good and I do like some of the current changes you made. I do ask, how are the mana dorks working out for you? I am having a hard time trying to fit some in, especially the main three I want to add being Birds of Paradise, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, and Shaman of Forgotten Ways. I am personally not a fan of Somberwald Sage in a 5 color deck plus the fact that she only has 1 toughness makes her an easy kill target. The other thing I don't like is that she makes only 3 mana of 1 color. If it was 3 mana of any color combination, then that would be better but that is not the case sadly. I think the other 3 are much better and birds being a 1 drop makes it an easy helper for setting up the board, and so I feel that it justifies the 1 toughness on birds.

I am also a huge fan of Lurking Predators and ask how it is preforming in your deck? I am thinking of replacing my Descendants' Path with it because the fact that path does require at least one creature on the board. Predators still works after a board wipe. Plus the idea of having a dragon countered only to get another from the top of the deck is very nice lol. I also noticed you removed Mirari's Wake, and Sylvan Library, and curious as to why? Did they not preform as much as you wanted?

With the amount of card draw that you do possess now, I would recommend adding two cards to help with the possible flooding of cards in hand. Reliquary Tower and Thought Vessel. Don't want to end up discarding a lot of the cards that were drawn. Could remove Crucible of the Spirit Dragon for the Reliquary Tower.

As I said, I love some of the changes, but just curious behind the reasoning on some of them. I plan on making a few changes to my deck today to try and improve it. Really hope that The Ur-Dragon continues to go far in the commander world and would love to see other future dragons that could potentially throw this deck through the roof.

@xstuffstuffstuffx: Why? Just why would you post something like that? We build decks to the best of our ability and to our liking/personality so that we can enjoy playing the game. We then post them here so that people can see what we have created and make suggestions to improve the current deck. If he wanted to continue playing Scion of the Ur-Dragon, he would have left the deck as that. Plus the fact that Scion and The Ur-Dragon make two completely different styles of dragon decks that grouping them is almost useless. Want to play combos and focus on your commander? Then scion is for you. Want to play a massive armada of dragons? Then you play The Ur-Dragon. Sorry if I went off on a rant, but I feel that you could have made a comment that could have helped progress the deck versus saying something that goes against the deck and its creators decision. It defeats the ideal of building what one wants to build as a deck that the game Magic: The Gathering is completely founded on. Maybe I went to deep, but that is how I feel. Have a great day sir or madam and enjoy whatever decks you decide to build.

Cards I think are still bad here:Sarkhan Unbroken is just for lols, he's fine if you have a board to support him but he basically just says "here I am attack me till I die" and in EDH that's not doing enough I don't think.

Karthus is still a terrible card to play. There are enough reanimator effects, clone effects, steal before resolution effects etc. etc. that the second he's out of your hand and library he's a liability to you ever winning the game. Would not play.

Deathbringer Regent is slow and conditional for a wipe. Why not play Damnation or literally any wrath spell. Heck for a 6 drop you could be playing Akroma's Vengeance to wipe everything or Austere Command for versatility or Catastrophe as a spell that locks you into a winning position, or Deadly Tempest to stay in colour but add a face-beating to your opponents who are going wide, and on and on. There are WAY WAY WAY better options than this sub-par beater who plays into tribal theme.

I think Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon is kind of a win-more card here. I guess it trades for one removal but I don't think it will win you games with its infect ability, and it's other abilities keep you very heavy in black which you're already dipping to with reanimator.

Fist of Suns helps you to cast 8 cards in your deck, and not by much; also requires you to have perfect 5c fixing whereas you are leaning towards having a heavier jund theme. I'd cut for a straight up rock or tribal profit card so it is dead less often. Does NOT remove commander tax (I.e. it cuts cost of your commander by 4 but realistically you're ramping so hard and have other cheapening effects that do it already, playing your commander is the purest form of gravy in magic I've conceived of. "Oh do I already have stupid mana and a field of dragons? Guess I'll dump 9 in all 5 colours to draw 5 cards and use an omniscience one time, plus have lethal in 2 turns"

Not sure why you took out Wasitora, Nekoru Queen because forced sacrifice is great against voltron and incidental large tokens which are fucking cute are pretty nice. She's a political powerhouse, in your theme colours and comes out fast, dodging indestructible, hexproof, etc. etc.

Mana base can still be corrected, there are individual cards that have purely better replacements (and I don't mean duals for shocks, you're fine there) like Murmuring bosk, which is a nice card in that it taps for 3 colour, but it will ALWAYS come in tapped and then hurts you to produce its two colours beyond green. I guess it's nice that you can search for it as a forest? I would rather just be playing more dual types that don't hurt me or sandsteppe citadel honestly.

xstuffstuffstuffx: I respect your opinion my friend, but the two commanders are trying to accomplish different things.

Derpsofdoom: I am glad you like the latest update! I am planning on making another one based on some of your comments and some play testing.

Mana dorks are important for this deck! The faster you get out your horde of dragons the better!!! Somberwald Sage is an all-star! Three mana of color is a ton on turn four, even if it only of one color! That just means you get a dragon with CMC 8 or less on your forth turn! If you have one other source of ramp, that is your commander!

Lurking Predators hit the field as SOON as I get my hands on it! It rocks people worlds! Worse case senerio it is a free scry effect because you MAY put the card on the bottom!

I simply didn't own another Mirari's Wake and Sylvan Library, but I just bought some more, so they are going in! While I am at it, here are all the cards I want to add right now:

• Mirari's Wake
• Sylvan Library
• Taurean Mauler
• Skyshroud Claim
• Wasitora, Nekoru Queen
• Skyline Despot???
• Prismatic Geoscope???
• Anguished Unmaking???

What do you think I could do to fit these cards in???

Jamminmagician: Let me tell you from personal experience, Sarkhan Unbroken is a beast! Ramps and draws = Yes! Makes Dragons = YES. Maybe just wins you the game with horde of dragons? = OH YES!. I am not basing his impact off of his ult at all, trust me!

Your other suggestions are defenitly something to think about!!! I have only gotten a few games in so far with this deck. I am mainly using the precon to do an escalation league with some friends, then it will be all hands on deck! (No pun intended)

Heyo VexenX. I might have to try Somberwald Sage then. I loved it back in my Prossh, Skyraider of Kher deck and it was an all star there. Somberwald might prove to be something here, but I still want to add Selvala, Heart of the Wilds to my deck over somberwald. However, another all star dork that I ended up using instead of somberwald, especially since I have all the fetch lands, is Deathrite Shaman. I notice that you don't have all the fetch lands in your deck and can understand for some due to price reasons, but with all ten, Deathrite Shaman is awesome. If your opponents also use fetch lands, then you can use deathrite to hit their lands as well so he generally always has a target. It can also get rid of annoying graveyard cards that you don't want to be dealing with. Like Meren of Clan Nel Toth recurring something very dangerous over and over again.

I might have to add a Taurean Mauler myself, though I don't like the fact that it looks like a bull but he is a changeling so still counts as a dragon. Will not doubt the fact that he is strong, especially as a two drop creature for this deck. Wasitora, Nekoru Queen is also awesome and I like her affect. Works very well against voltron decks so would recommend her. I would remove a few creatures for them and my suggestions would have to be Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, Scion of the Ur-Dragon, and Hellkite Overlord. I haven't tested Hellkite Overlord yet, but I like the fact he is a beater so I would say of the three, I wouldn't remove him, but still on the back burner compared to other dragons. Knollspine Dragon might be one to consider due to his powerful draw affect, but could also be to much if one doesn't monitor the amount of damage done, or if you have no way to maximize your hand size.

I suggest Skithiryx because of what he is, an infect dragon that will be targeted and destroyed if left alone, plus it is infect damage. If you have no way to pump him and one shot the opponent with him, then I wouldn't use him. Scion of the Ur-Dragon is one that I feel is pretty lackluster in his father's deck due to how he plays. Yes it can get you a big dragon if you possess a recursion spell in your hand, but scion doesn't receive any of the creature discounts that you are running like Urza's Incubator and etc. Also scion does much better with the idea that you do combat tricks like dumping Nicol Bolas when nobody blocks him upon attacks. I just think that for 5 mana with a 4/4 flyer might provide something more useful, but the idea of making him into Atarka, World Render before attacking is appealing. I ended up cutting mine just because I think he doesn't do enough for his dad.

Another card you could cut, could possibly be Fist of Suns. I did end up cutting mine and think something like Sylvan Library or Mirari's Wake could be more useful. Yes Fist of Suns is good early game, but getting it late game, it just falls hard and is lackluster with all the creature discounts you get from your other artifacts and commander. I love Selvala, Heart of the Wilds because she is like another Ramos, Dragon Engine when The Ur-Dragon and her are on the field together.

I would say if you want to add Anguished Unmaking, then maybe remove Path to Exile. It won't ramp your opponents, and we really don't care if the opponents get life from Swords to Plowshares when our creatures can easily just wipe out whatever was gained and more. I also think most of our removal is going to target enchantments and artifacts more than it will target creatures as we generally will have the larger creature, plus can fly over them most of the time. However, if you want, something to replace either Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile, Crib Swap is hilarious in this deck, especially since it gets discounted by our commander.

I am also iffy on Cultivate and Kodama's Reach due to lack of basics, but with not having all 10 fetches, I can see them being useful for the fixing. Could also add the Skyshroud Claim to replace them. Fellwar Stone or any of the signets are great two drops that could provide more fixing if needed. If you end up deciding to put in Prismatic Geoscope though, then leave in the Cultivate and Kodama's Reach for the basics.

I have typed a lot and give you something to read/think about. I apologize if it is a lot, want The Ur-Dragon to be more than just a fun deck. I want him to be fun and competitive, which is why this deck is going to be were all my expensive resources are going. I will also leave an updated version of my deck here if you want to have a look and see how they compare. If you have suggestions for it as well, I am all ears and would love to see what you have to say. Thanks gain and sorry for my long post. Have a great day!

Here is my deck. The Ur-Dragon Initiative

Prismatic Geoscope is insane with you fetches and shocks

Oh did not realize that Prismatic Geoscope worked with the shock lands as well. Thought it wanted only basic lands. Might make it worth it, but entering tapped is a huge deterrent. The ability to essentially double your mana when you play it seems very good though. Unsure about it right now.

If any of ya'll are still looking for Taurian Mauler in this deck, a viable alternative is Sunscorch Regent, which is a dragon with the same effect + it nets you a free life for each spell, and has flying. It's WW3 cost is a little more color heavy, but it benefits from the dragon ramp and such just the same.

What about Maelstrom Wanderer? Sure, it's not a dragon and you've got a few 8-drops, but 2 free spells and a haste enabler for 8 mana can really turn things around for you if you're a little behind. I serve the Ur-Dragon as well, and I'm going to test out Strionic Resonator with him. There are enough dragons with triggered abilities to make it worthwhile, and getting to copy Ur-Dragon's would be ridiculous.

I've been running sunscorch in my build and love it. It usually attracts a lot of attention. Especially in a multiplayer setting. A dragon flier that continent to grow while the table takes its turns is pretty awesome. Can be pretty large by the time it gets back around to your turn.

On the mana dork front, doesn't get much better than Bloom Tender. If I had an extra copy it would be in for sure. I'm working on a similar list, love yours! Thanks for sharing.

+1 for that name

OUT

• Deathbringer Regent
• Hellkite Overlord
• Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
• Beacon of Unrest
• Cultivate
• Kodama's Reach
• Supreme Verdict
• Return to Dust
• Fist of Suns
• Coalition Relic

IN

• Ramos, Dragon Engine
• Wasitora, Nekoru Queen
• Taurean Mauler
• Anguished Unmaking
• Prismatic Geoscope
• Sylvan Library
• Mirari's Wake
• Skyshroud Claim
• Skyline Despot
• Phyrexian Arena

Derpsofdoom: Sorry for the delayed response! I just got back from a trip. I really appreciate your feedback! Most of the changes I made were aided by your feedback, thank you for that! I have been mainly playing this list on Xmage because I has been hard to go to my LGS. I am looking forward to giving these changes a try!

superluke1, ephemeralAubade, SLP_500, irongills, somedumbjerk, and Macharius5622 let me know what you think about the changes!

I am hoping that Bloom Tender is reprinted, it is not worth $30 if you ask me.