Hardened scales would add one to the heroic trigger (for two) which would then be doubled (four) and add the one from hardened scales (five). But casting feat of resistance would add two from the heroic trigger and two from the spell for four. Not much difference right? But then you also would get the protection. Which do you consider better?

solidarity of heroes is only really good because you can hit things with a bunch of counters already on it, and you can hit multiple creatures for cheap. Plus it's an instant which can end a game tricky style. My only point was that those cards together were not especially good compared to other cards.

Really wanna make solidarity of heroes good? cast it on a creature that you cast feat of resistance on first to give some evasion. thats four counters, heroic to six, doubled to 12, plus one for 13. Solidarity of heroes is just a game ender in my opinion. I only run two for this reason. The protection spells are way more important.

I agree, it was mostly the ability to target multiple creatures which made me use it as my example, you are right that it's more of a finisher and I wouldn't run more than a couple as opposed to Feat which gives protection for both blocking and evasion.

I guess all I really meant was that Heroic and Scales with any spell which also puts counters as part of its effect is really strong, but I suppose you knew that as that's pretty much the basis of your deck :P

I would get rid of Defiant Strike for more Reap What Is Sown.

@Ne0Wolf7 He can't do that. Defiant Strike is important because it targets and allows you to draw. This deck is hard to play because it needs more draw, not less.

@ALX Not my deck. I just have a vested interest in it because I use to run this deck when it first came out. I am basically just trying to get input for my own style.

Oh, right.

Played this deck tonight at my local fnm and won 1, lost 2 and had a bye. The side deck was really handy with the creature stoppers. I'm going to bring in some Ordeal of Heliod, Ordeal of Nylea, Ordeal of Thassa and Warriors' Lesson to bring in some much needed drawing. I found myself stuck on 2-3 mana on bad draws and it would have helped immensely to have more draw ability.

@Mont3y warriors' lesson ends up being a wasted card in most cases because when you really need it, you are unable to use it. More often than not you will end up using this on one creature and only getting one card. Ordeal of thassa works perfect however since all you need to do is generally attack once to get the two cards. Plus with hardened scales you will get 4 counters as well. It just fits a lot better. Order of heliod is good if you just need more life. I find that to be an awesome sideboard against heavy aggro decks. If you are in need of mana much of the time then ordeal of nylea wouldn't be bad. I just find that I have too much mana with this deck since three runs it pretty well. Overall I find that the ordeal of thassa is enough for me in most cases when combined with defiant strike.

@w4rped Yeah definitely side board for Ordeal of Heliod, but the Ordeal of Nylea can be a huge boost early to be able to spell dump on a heroic creature if you start with a few spells.

@Mont3y No doubt that it can help. The difference is how much can it help? Would you rather have that over Ordeal of Thassa? Hardened Scales? Defiant Strike? Gods Willing? Feat of Resistance? See my point? Taking something out to fit that card that only truly helps in the first 3 turns and can't be played until the second turn is very pigeon holed. I think there are just better cards than that one. But it no doubt can help. Possibly a sideboard selection for slower games when you need to eliminate mana draw in later turns. Something to think about.

Guys please go to my deck Token Token Who's Got the Token? (Help Needed!) and give me some comments/criticism/votes! I want to get that deck up and running. It is close to being competitive but not quite there.

@w4rped fair enough mate.

Hey everyone, just published my first Heroic deck. Thanks Mortem for the inspiration. Minus the fetch lands it's a pretty affordable deck. probs $30-40. Would really appreciate some feedback, good or constructively bad.

It would also help if I linked it... /facepalm haha

Heroic is the answer!

Mortem, I think you should go ahead and build another deck using the suggestions for splash that w4rped has made. I would love to see the result!

@Elesh-in-Wonderland I actually made a deck a while ago with the suggestions I've been giving here in mind. Similar roots because it started as selesnya agro as well. The New Heroic Style

Comments welcome as it is a work in progress.

I made a R/W deck I'd love some advice on?Akroan Phalanx

@Jdvanliew obviously you are a troll. Both in real life, and on here. Discussion about a deck is how a deck grows and evolves. Offering suggestions to a deck maker is what the comments are for. Are you upset that no one comments on your decks? Get over it. Make a deck that has potential and maybe you'll get comments. Not to say that I get many comments on my decks, but I do play the decks that I make, and I do have real world experience with everything that I say. You are a moron if you do not see the benefit of adding the cards that I spoke of. Granted, some of the cards I suggested would make this less of a selesnya deck, but they could afford the deck a missing piece that would allow it to win in the right situation. What pray tell do you call common sense? I do not lash out at anything that people say if it is indeed common sense. I lash out at moronic posts and moronic posters, such as you, that think it better to call me down for my suggestions than discuss how to make a deck better.

How about this... If you consider my suggestions to be idiotic, then what would you suggest? If your answer is "nothing it is perfect", then you are more of an idiot than I previously stated. If you do indeed have suggestions, then you are an ass-hat for making a pointless comment and not attempting to help someone improve something.

Long story short is that you need to mind your business if you have nothing productive to add. If you believe my comments to be incorrect, then please enlighten the others as to why. I have no issue with a discussion about why something is good or bad, but simply stating that something is "idiotic" helps no one. Stop with the foolishness.

I will post my comments as long as I want. I obviously have a lot to say, and since this is not twitter, I will use as many characters I want.

Go troll someone else.

@w4rped

I love that last bit. Twitter, lol.

@Jdvanliew Lol, it's precious that you think votes for your deck make it a viable option! Ainok Bond-Kin is a possible option for the deck, but does not address the deck's main issues. That card helps you punch through defenders which this deck does not have a huge problem doing with it's large creatures. Your suggestion allows for more of the same, with less synergy and ergo does not actually constitute a "perfect" suggestion. While the suggestions I made are not completely on color, a slight splash would allow the deck a large advantage over a strict selesnya build.

Also, calling the decks that I post on here down shows your class, which is none. Every one of them has a "prototype" tag on it. And that means they are not considered finished. Every one of my decks has a viable core build that is PROVEN on multiple other WINNING decks across the nation. While I may not have the votes that other decks do, the majority of my decks win, consistently. I use this site to hold my deck lists for modification because of it's ease of use, and to see if anyone has suggestions to make it better, not to win votes. In fact, I am taking one of my decks to FNM tonight to test it in real world application. Since you have the votes, why don't you take your decks? See how you do... lol. Loser.

Jdvanliew there are several reasons why you are astoundingly wrong.

Firstly, the fact that you have consistently chosen to attack and insult a person rather than rationally stating your case against his suggestions in a reasonable way implies that you lack either the basic ability to state rational arguments or you have none.

As w4rped points out, this site is about sharing your decks specifically in order to get feedback via the comments and the only thing you can say is that you diagree with a suggestion and explain why. Even then you are only on the borderline between offering helpful advice and simply antagonising people for no reason.

It is not unreasonable to suggest a different direction or splash of new colours for a deck if the changes will benefit the deck's performance.

The number of votes a deck gets may well have no bearing whatsoever on how well the deck performs.

Finally, this site is about sharing ideas, there are plenty of forums out there for stupid people to bitch about each other like insecure teenagers. So next time you are thinking about posting a comment consider the following: does this statement provide useful advice, helpful suggestions or at least some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism?

If not, then gtfo!

This is a community of people trying to help one another to accomplish things, stop wasting our time.

@w4rped, Jdvanliew, ALX

Chill out guys. I'm willing to bet that you'd never say any of those things in person to a complete stranger, so don't do it on the internet. Being anonymous doesn't make it ok.

The only thing arguments like these accomplish is making everyone look like immature fools. Like honestly, you're bashing eachother over a card game...just think about what you're doing before you post stuff like that. Please. You make the whole community look bad.

I apologise if I came off as rude. I agree, it is silly to squabble like children. I shouldn't have got involved. My message is the same.This is a community and we all need to respect each other.

I must say though, I certainly would say what I've said to someone in person. I don't say what I say just because it is anonymous and I can "get away with it". I stand by what I say.

@Jdvanliew

I hope you don't mind if I quote you in an essay I'm writing for philosophy class about internet trolls... :S

@TheHroth I am sorry man. I don't mean to make the community look bad. You are right in that most people would not say the things they do online to a stranger in person. The internet affords people a sense of security in the wall of anonymity. I am 6'2 and 250 pounds. It is unlikely that many people would insult me in person as they do on here. Though some people risk personal health a lot more than is intelligent. Not that I am a violent person, but I know if I met someone much larger than me I would think twice about insulting them.And I have to say that it is really funny you are writing a philosophy paper about internet trolls!

@Jdvanliew Backhanded apologies are ridiculous, and blaming me for what you posted is childish. Take responsibility for your actions.

On a side note, I took my version of this deck (though I splash blue in my version for Ordeal of Thassa and Sage of Hours) to FNM tonight, and it showed up amazingly! The card interactions worked perfectly and I should have taken home first place. I did not however due to a couple games that I got flooded with mana. Odd with only 18, but that's magic for ya.

With confidence I can now say that I have found another card in this deck that needs to be changed! Phalanx Leader does not work. And when he does, he is unnecessary. I believe this card needs to be switched out for a card that either has a little evasion, or is cheaper. the WW cost of him was difficult to justify with how much he slowed the play down. However, Lagonna-Band Trailblazer was a CHAMP! I have a lot of tinkering to do to my version, but it is working so well that it is all minor stuff. Sideboard cards are going to be difficult since the interactions are working so well, but that's the next step for me. Mortem please let me know about any testing you do with this, and I am sorry for hijacking your deck comments. I am just very interested in this deck build and you get more comments than me even though we have the same type of deck, lol.