GlistenerAgent says... #2
I think it might be a card choice issue. Keep in mind that delve spells shouldn't be your main cheap stuff, they should be adding to a gameplan of almost all cheap, efficient cards whenever possible.
June 11, 2015 1:20 p.m.
I'm going to say this is one of the most impressive, well thought out, through and fine tuned deck descriptions I've seen on this site. +1 and you should be proud.
June 18, 2015 12:27 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #4
Thanks man!
Ive certainly spent way too many hours on this thing, but I think its finally getting there. If you want to see a really impressive primer, check out The Minefield: A Modern Artifact Recycler (T3 Win). I hope to get my primer close to that some day. But thanks for the comment and +1!
June 18, 2015 9:31 a.m.
Dragonman39 says... #5
Looks like an amazingly fun deck to play. I can't say that I could improve on it any.
June 22, 2015 12:35 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #6
Thanks! I've had a lot of fun with it and even a few pretty good FNM finishes. I still need to, as always, work on the sideboard, but I'm happy with how it's turned out. Now to just de-proxy the remaining $400 of cards ...
June 22, 2015 11:36 p.m.
Tacoguy12321 says... #7
Abzan has become more rogue-esque now so.... also affinity is getting hammered by Kolaghan's Command
June 25, 2015 11:05 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #8
Wow, I guess with a poor showing at GP Charlotte for Abzan midrange it has dropped in popularity. I still don't like accepting it as a bad matchup though, because it still holds 6% metagame share, but I think I can safely drop a few of the anti abzan midrange spells for a few more anti abzan company spells because I think that deck is going to skyrocket in meta shares over the next month or so.
Unfortunately, I don't see how I'll beat Abzan midrange without devoted space or how to modify my sideboard accordingly to accommodate coco more effectively.
I don't see Affinity as a problem deck at the moment, but I also haven't done adequate playtesting against it yet. I feel with Staticaster, Pyroclasm, Rakdos Charm, Spellskite, and other strong Affinity killers available, I don't think I'll struggle with Affinity. As for KC, in my highly unorthodox opinion, it doesn't do anything I can't otherwise do or need to do. Artifact hate is covered by Rakdos Charm and I have a lot of other spells that hurt affinity. The burn is nearly unwanted. My list is more midrange than aggro, so additional burn is not wanted - there is almost always another effect that I would rather have such as hard removal or counters. Making my opponent discard is strongest against Burn, one of my best matchups, but otherwise mediocre. Targeted discard is always better. And the recursion makes the command a good topdeck, but not until then. The way I see it, I almost never want to play it because although I get to choose 2 of the effects, none of the effects are strong enough to warrant its inclusion for me. It provides me watered down effects that I already can do exceedingly well and I know that usually people tag on the burn to justify the cost, but adding the burn effect only increases the cost of the card for me without drastically increasing the effects. I run Snapcaster Mage to have every effect I need available so running versatile cards with watered effects is not exactly what I'm looking for. That said, KC is still a very strong card and I did run it for awhile. I eventually pulled it because I already had 11 strong removal spells so something had to go from that category, and KC was the obvious choice unless I wanted to shave off a few Lightning Bolt. Because I already have hand removal without KC, it is unnecessary in here. BUT, it is a fantastic budget replacement for Snapcaster Mage in this list.
I honesly don't know what to change in the sideboard as I feel it is strong against a lot of decks with no major holes at the moment, although 1 more counter and 1 more sweeper would not hurt. I might replace 1 Batterskull with 1 Keranos, God of Storms for a little diversity, but I don't really like that switch because Batterskull is so good.
I really need more practice against Jund. It's a deck I originally considered a thing of the past, but now it's definitely a tier 1 deck that I have to worry about. It's also rising in popularity everywhere. So I think I'll change a few cards in the sideboard to better handle the Abzan coco decks and Jund.
Any outside world opinions would be great on what to do. Thanks!
June 26, 2015 11:29 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #9
Batterskull is not good. Kolaghan's Command is so real it's insane.
I highly recommend you check out Grixis Delver lists on MtGGoldfish for ideas. Your spell suite is painfully lacking in diversity and power.
June 26, 2015 11:32 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #10
Yeah, but this deck wins games. To be fair, I have yet to side in Batterskull just because I haven't played this deck enough, but I have had a lot of 2-1 finishes with this deck. It works really well, better than most of the delver decks in my meta. I wouldn't call it delver tempo though, it's closer to delver midrange. I think my spell suite is plenty powerful. Perhaps unconventional, but still fairly powerful. I know what grixis delver lists look like, but I don't want to play straight delver like 8% of players. I would rather run a unique deck that is still effective, but not like every other delver deck on the planet.
I still don't see how Batterskull is bad. I'll look into how I need to adjust my sideboard for Jund and abzan coco and it'll probably get removed then because it isn't very good against either.
I know Kolaghan's Command is good in the aggro-tempo delver decks, but this is delver midrange. It is not so real it's insane in here, in fact, it's quite mediocre most of the time. There is more than 1 way to build delver and I have chosen a method that is very different from other delver decks, which I am very okay with.
June 26, 2015 11:50 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #11
If you're playing a midrange deck, Kolaghan's Command is even more powerful of an attrition engine. It's actually worse in Delver than in your midrangey list. You need to be playing it, because it generates too much value.
If you're going for a midrange deck, it may be best to cut the Delvers entirely. They don't help you grind very much.
I'd suggest taking a look at Chapin's Grixis Control deck. He's going for a more midrange-control approach like you are, but his deck does it a great deal better IMO.
June 26, 2015 11:53 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #12
Okay, here's what I'm gonna do.
After looking at some Jund lists and coco lists, yeah I do need a few Kolaghan's Command.
I also want to de-proxy my paper list so I can go to more competitive tournaments, but for what I have remaining, I'm on a bit of a budget, so here's my plan.
I'm going to drop Snapcaster Mage because of cost to make room for 2 Kolaghan's Command. The command's creature recursion will help me not run out of gas despite only running 12 creatures. The burn kills all of the Abzan coco creatures and most of the Jund creatures, so it is definitely worth it because I need as many 2-for-1 opportunities as I can make against those decks because 2-for-1 is the name of their game.
I'm also going to drop Bitterblossom and start looking for a good aggro replacement, if I even need one. There are a few decks, such as most combo decks, that I need to aggro down quickly. If I have KC in the mainboard then I can probably do without the token generation aspect. I think Monastery Swiftspear is the best card to run instead as a 2-of in the sideboard because it is faster than than both Bitterblossom and Young Pyromancer and can put through a lot of damage.
Spellskite is to good not to run. I'll just have to buy / trade for a few because it wins games.
Then the final card to look at is Batterskull. I'm still not sure what to do there. In my sideboard, I need some lifegain. It's a must because I will never do well in a game of attrition without it and Batterskull is the best attrition / lifegain engine out there, unless I want to try Wurmcoil Engine, which is also an artifact and is too much mana for a 21 land deck. To my knowledge, those are the only 2 attrition cards with extreme lifegain. Feel free to share any others.
June 26, 2015 12:33 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #14
But... lifegain? He does have some good attrition though. Sadly abzan lists are starting to run Dromoka's Command sideboard for him. I also can't make him a creature. I'll paytest it.
June 26, 2015 2:33 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #15
Very few are actually playing Command, and you have counterspells.
Dragon's Claw is good lifegain. Dispel is better lifegain.
June 26, 2015 2:35 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #16
huh? How is Dispel lifegain? I'm talking about midrange lifegain, not early lifegain. I already beat burn a lot. It's lifeloss from things like Huntmaster of the Fells Flip and Siege Rhino that I need to undo. Vampire Nighthawk just doesn't do enough in midrange for lifegain.
June 26, 2015 2:43 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #17
Dispel counters burn spells. Lifegain, duh.
It's also incredible in midrange mirrors. It's so efficient that you get to win all the fights you care about. Most of Jund's problem cards against you are instants, as those are their main removal spells in addition to Command. Dispel is awesome.
June 26, 2015 2:47 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #18
I'm not sure I agree about Dispel against Jund. Their biggest problem card for me is Liliana of the Veil. Also, Abrupt Decay is uncounterable.
Burn is an easy matchup. No Dispel necessary, I don't think.
Right now I have 4 open card slots in the sideboard. Between them, I need some way to shift towards aggro, but also some late game value. I need something like Sword of Light and Shadow, but it dies to both Kolaghan's Command and Abrupt Decay. Running 2 swords and 2 Monastery Swiftspear would be ideal, but the swords are too fragile. Uggh. They're just so perfect for what I want, though.
Any ideas for how to fill those spots? I'm looking for some way to speed up the deck for the combo matchups and some way to have a better midrange.
June 28, 2015 7:15 p.m.
Depending on when you sideboard in your Batterskull Rakdos Ragemutt might be a nice way to put on some heat and gain some life. It doesn't pass the bolt-test, sadly, but you can't beat the pricetag!
June 30, 2015 6:49 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #20
Thanks for the comment!
Unfortunately he doesn't quite handle the abzan and June creatures very well, but you're right about the price tag!
In my mind, my sideboard has 3 general plans. For aggro decks I usually side in, dependent on the deck, Spellskite and Pyroclasm. For control and combo I out my Vampire Nighthawk and side in Monastery Swiftspear and Batterskull for control. For midrange I side pretty much everything, including Batterskull. So Rakdos Ragemutt would have to stand up to both control and midrange! which is where the bolt test becomes critical. Batterskull can also dodge which helps a ton.
Thanks for the suggestion though! It definitely a great budget option!
July 1, 2015 11:20 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #21
I really appreciate your help on this deck, but this isn't quite the deck I meant. I recently (last night) made another deck modeled after your deck because I love your deck idea so much and I don't really like top metadecks. They win a lot, but they're not very fun to play with imo. My other deck is Self Denial v2. I think you'll be very familiar with most of the cards, as it is a budgeted version of your deck with a lot of my own flavorful favorite stuff thrown in.
July 14, 2015 7:28 p.m.
what exactly doesIzzet Staticaster do? Pestermite is a 2 of in most splinter twin decks. i guess it hits half off Lingering Souls and eats the other half later. But in general, what do you bring it in against?
August 20, 2015 5:37 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #23
Wow, I haven't looked at this deck in awhile.... been too busy with my current project Rocket Science.
Staticaster is for any deck with a good number of x/1's. This includes Delver (Delver of Secrets Flip and Young Pyromancer tokens), Affinity (everything is an x/1 to start), BW tokens, Abzan, and infect. I actually didn't find it super useful so I cut it when I changed decks and put in more normal sweepers instead which has been working well for me.
August 20, 2015 5:44 p.m.
I really like the deck build its a very interesting take on delver! Definately have my +1
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #1
You're probably right about improper use of Tasigur. How should I be using him? Usually I delve away the cards that aren't useful if recurred, usually leaving 1 nonland card that, if brought back to my hand, could change the course of the game. Then I use his effect and pray to mill 2 lands. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn't. Then I get back a bad card because, like you said a while ago, I have a lot of bad cards for them to return.
It's Tasigur's 4 power that turns me away from him. I like the 5/5 body a lot more because it kills most creatures in the format. The only creatures the Angler doesn't beat are opposing Anglers, Wurmcoil Engine, and Primeval Titan, and the decks that run the latter 2 aren't that bad of matchups for me anyway. Tasigur dies to opposing Anglers and only ties opposing Rhinos and Tasigurs, which are 2 of my biggest threats.
I also am usually tapped out. Even with 21 lands in here, I usually don't have mana to spare. With more expensive creatures like Vampire Nighthawk, my deck runs a little slower than other delver decks, meaning that by the time I land a Tasigur and use his effect, it's already midrange and I have a lot of cards in my graveyard for them to pick that won't have any effect on the game. I could use his effect earlier, but that requires taking a turn to activate his effect, and then get benefits from it the next turn, which is too late. In the first 5 turns of the game, I need to make the most of every turn otherwise I fall behind.
Now, looking back at why Tasigur won't work, it is evident that there are still problems with my deck as a whole. It could be the way I am playing it, but I think it's just some card choice issues. Perhaps Tasigur is the card to run, but not in this version of this deck. If I am going to accommodate him, which from what I have heard is a god idea, I need to do more than just replace 2 Angler with 2 Tasigur - I need to change several other cards as well. But then I am back to traditional delver which has a lot of problems that this deck fixes. That's also going against my philosophy of using cards that work with the deck, not changing the deck to work with a single card.
In summary, this deck still needs a lot of work, but I knew that. I just didn't know how to improve it.
June 11, 2015 12:50 p.m.