kaznitram Yeah it's buried in the Comments Archive somewhere

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/7tttwc/selvala_mulligan_guide_with_25_example_hands/

kaznitram

Has Beast Whisperer been looked at as a potential addition, or is 4 cmc too high f

Where is the mulligan guide? Can’t seem to find him

On your Memory Jar loop...are you missing a card from the loop such as E-Wit or Skullwinder? And even if you had those in hand, you're pitching them when you sac Memory Jar. How are you recurring it from your GY after you sac it? I gotta be missing something lol

ChinoEX The idea is that you already have infinite mana + Sabertooth + Witness/Skullwinder, which through a number of different ways can put your whole library in your hand.

From there, cast 7 pump spells/get 7 cards in your graveyard that don't draw you a card.

Cast Primal Command, making your library consist of those 7 cards.

Cast/crack Jar. You now have those 7 cards in your hand, and Command and Jar in your graveyard.

Use the Witness bounce loop to get Jar and Command back in your hand.

Repeat this, casting the 7 cards, putting them into your library, and using the jar to draw them. You opponents draw 7 cards each loop, and BANG they're out of cards.

I have been playing this deck for almost 1 year know and I love it, I added my own twists because i like them, but there is one thing you left out with tooth and nail. t is the interaction great oak guardian and temur sabertooth. You can entwine tooth and nail get a eternal witness affect and great oak guardian and but those both into play. Then cast it again entwined and get phyrexian dreadnought and temur sabertooth. with the dreadnought trigger on the stack you can return and recast great oak guardian and make infinite mana.

Would Voyaging Satyr be worth inclusion? It only costs 1 more than Llanowar Elves but can untap cradle ot shrine or lodge for a lot of value.

Also, what do I do if Temur Sabertooth gets exiled?

I wouldnt bother with satyr - the downside of 2 vs 1 is significant and you need another card to even get advantage. If sabretooth is exiled you can do things like get staff of domination online and start looping stuff with primal command, or pump everything that taps with umbral mantle, etc.

Finale of Devastation is a pretty invredible, right? Baseline is 1GG for Dreadnought, with the possibility to grab combo pieces. We can make enough mana to kill with the pump too.

Oh and in case that wasn't good enough, it grabs creatures out of the bin too.

Yes finale of devastation makes it in for sure. The list has been updated to reflect that.

What do you think about Vivien's Arkbow for Selvala? It seems like it might add some more consistency and a way to spend mana if you get stuck while comboing off.

I’m not a fan. Spending 2 cards and a ton of mana for the first creature isn’t worth it. It’s particularly bad during the combo as it only looks at the top X and you have no guarantee you can hit an untapper.

With Primal Command no longer in the deck, is it possible to perform a loop that causes opponents to lose from drawing their whole deck without losing to the same thing?

You would need to run either scroll rack, primal command, or an eldrazi to do memory jar loops. That said there isn’t much need to do so, as finale of devastation doubles as a wincon, so there are still multiple avenues to victory.

So if you're not including any eldrazi, Primal Command , Scroll Rack , or any way to shuffle your graveyard into your library to supplement the Memory Jar loop, why are you still running memory jar?

I'm not him, but I imagine Memory Jar is still in the deck because it has uses outside of the loop. For example, if you have mana from Selvala, but no tutors or draw cards to get your wincons, Memory Jar can draw you a new hand for 5 mana, possibly allowing you to finish your combo and win that turn. That's my take on it.

Since the beginning, memory jar was run for the draw effect. The kill loop was just a nice coincidence. Imo its pretty borderline as a draw effect though because of the risk of drawing your opponents into removal, but the density of gas effects is nice.

What are your thoughts on the london mulligan? Will the deck change with the new mulligan rule?

Does Scale Up have a spot in this list?

I'd also like to throw Force of Vigor into the discussion. I'm thinking of running it. Removing two artifacts or enchantments for 0 mana and a green card feels good enough in cEDH for me, but I'd like to hear your opinion. Personally, I find myself with enough extra cards in hand that I don't think the cost will be a problem.

I added scale up as it is another way of pumping my creatures for 1x green mana at instant speed. Opinions on it?

Scale up is a fine pump spell. It doesn’t let you get super large creatures but also lets you pump a dork more efficiently.

London mulligan shouldn’t really affect deck construction here.

Does the land loop still work without primal command?