What about Lifecrafter's Bestiary? I'd say it has really nice synergy with Temur Sabertooth and Wirewood Symbiote. And it lets you draw cards even if the creature spells were countered.

Too much input mana for the benefit. I'd run Glimpse of Nature before bestiary and I don't like glimpse.

Can you explain what you mean in the wincons by Concordant Crossroads + infinite Beast Within. I don't get it. What are you blowing up with the Beast Within?

mugicha the wincon is concordant crossroads with infinite pump via great oak guardian. If your concordant crossroads got exiled or is otherwise inaccessible, then you can also win with memory jar+scroll rack loops to deck your opponents. The last option is to beast within all of your opponents permanents, then somberwald stag all the beasts so that your opponents are left with no board. This doesn't kill them but people usually concede. You can keep yourself alive by scroll racking some cards to the top of your deck or searching for nothing with green sun's zenith.

These loops are generated by using a bounce effect like temur sabertooth/cloudstone curio and eternal witness.

Hi, you mentioned earlier that Paradox Engine will probably find its place in the deck. Do you know what it might replace?

CoolCat7271

Relative to this primer list - those of us who are adding Paradox Engine are generally cutting Dosan on the assumption that Dosan is usually the first card played after drawing your deck and you could instead just cast autumn's veil. If there was any interaction an opponent could do - they would almost certainly have already done it to prevent you from drawing the deck.

Ahhh that makes sense, yeah there isn't much room for him at that point. Thanks!

Finished ordering what I did not have for this deck just now, super excited to surprise my lgs with this deck

Good luck! Mull for t3 hand :)

can we get a section in the primer for Paradox Engine? I realize the current list doesn't even run it but it's a strong card that is confusing to use at first

Yeah there are a lot of neat tricks with Paradox Engine. I have it trading places in and out with Vitalize in my own list. I'll make an update later this week regarding Paradox Engine.

Sorry I forgot to ask, is Elvish Pioneer out for good? I never agreed with the change since it was a combo card that was actually decent outside of the combo, but if your sure it's staying out you need to fix some of the play lines (or at least add a note explaining that those particular play lines don't work in this particular build and give the reasons why it was cut.)

Pioneer is fine. There's room for tuning the list to personal taste, and I think pioneer is one of those choices. I like having the combo be made aware of but I'll update the primer to mention it's not in the current primer version.

yeah, sorry I meant to say that I have kept it in because of that rational and when I tried take it out I lost 2 games in a row because I thought that I still had it in there =P. I didn't mean that Pioneer needed to be put back in, just thought an explanation might help avoid confusion.

Have you thought about adding Elvish Visionary? I was playing a game with the list the other day and ran into a situation where i had infinite mana with Selvala and umbral mantle with a might of old krosa on her on turn 3...but...i was only able to cast duskwatch recruiter and get all the creatures into my hand...but nothing was able to draw me any more cards due to the board state and selvala getting impossibly large. Elvish visionary would give the sabertooth something to bounce and continue to draw your deck to assemble the wincon.

Pvtforlife, use temur sabertooth to bounce selvala, alternatively, Phyrexian Dreadnought is a sac outlet. This situation also frequently happens when you use Great Oak Guardian.

Dunadain lol...i am the biggest idiot...i never even thought of bouncing her...i guess i got it in my head she had to be there and be 1000000000/100000000000 or whatever she was at that point.

Also i am having a hard time getting memory jar...so i have been using Aetherflux Reservoir when i have infinite mana instead of the memory jar kill. This also gets past random graveyard hate.

You don't need memory jar or aetherflux reservoir to kill. You can loop great oak guardian with crossroads as plan A. If you don't have crossroads you can loop beast within and somberwald stag to destroy everyone's permanents and make infinite beasts for yourself and kill people on the next turn.

I'm waiting for the day when Paradox Engine gets added to the list.

I know we really don't have a way to tutor artifacts, but I was thinking, Benefactor's Draught on an Isochron Scepter might be fun.

monogoodshit I think if you want to run paradox they say Vitalize ---> Paradox engine

trancer99 we don't really run ways to untap artifacts... what did you have in mind?

monogoodshit try it yourself. I've been going back and forth between paradox and vitalize in my own list. When paradox is good, its insane. But theres a lot of times where it's too expensive or too risky, and you just wanted a cheap untapper like vitalize.

I guess without the Paradox Engine, scepter is not that good, maybe more of a Simic thing.

I have been using engine. It's amazing cast off of rishkars expertise

Also engine works great with dusk watch if you don't have infinite mana